So... What it says.

Cluster bombs has no range. Rhymer shoots....rhymer goes boom!

Yeah it's a discarded card....but the joy of doing 4 damage to him at medium range would be a fun slap in the rhymer ball face...

So... What it says.

Cluster bombs has no range. Rhymer shoots....rhymer goes boom!

Yeah it's a discarded card....but the joy of doing 4 damage to him at medium range would be a fun slap in the rhymer ball face...

Rules lawyers see any reason against the use of cluster bombs at range ?

You are performing an attack, so he can brace if he has them and you don't get a few accuracy results.

Why not spend 8+ points and buy a fighter that can shoot more than once per game and doesn't have to get shot at first?

It's not an attack. So no brace.

It's actually scary now that I think about it. It's a reserve....threat. A squad that's banged up goes into attack....whoa! They have cluster bombs that may auto kill me....may change the thought of the squad....

You are performing an attack, so he can brace if he has them and you don't get a few accuracy results.

Why not spend 8+ points and buy a fighter that can shoot more than once per game and doesn't have to get shot at first?

It's like Minefields. You can't redirect damage from that nor brace.

Why not spend 8+ points and buy a fighter that can shoot more than once per game and doesn't have to get shot at first?

This is where I fall. I just don't think that four blue dice once is all that worth it. You can't kill Rhymer with it (max 4 damage, Rhymer has 5 hp.)

Yeah, it could hurt him, but unless he's taking damage from another source (you've taken out his escort, and are hitting him) he won't die, and if you can other damage to him I think the 5 points would really be better spent to support that more than this card.

Sorry, didn't read the card carefully, saw the word attack and read it as you got a 4 dice attack.

Sorry, didn't read the card carefully, saw the word attack and read it as you got a 4 dice attack.

Now if it hit multiple squadrons in distance 1 of the triggering squadron it would be decent imho.

It's actually scary now that I think about it. It's a reserve....threat. A squad that's banged up goes into attack....whoa! They have cluster bombs that may auto kill me....may change the thought of the squad....

OK, the only advantage I can see is that you may just have the Rhymer player having to use squadron commands where he normally wouldn't as to get his squadrons into range 1.

So... What it says.

Cluster bombs has no range. Rhymer shoots....rhymer goes boom!

Yeah it's a discarded card....but the joy of doing 4 damage to him at medium range would be a fun slap in the rhymer ball face...

Rules lawyers see any reason against the use of cluster bombs at range ?

You will get about 2 damage at best sadly. It can't be braced however which is nice.

One would think that one would be able to do 4 damage "at best" with 4 blue dice

I haven't used it, but I could definitely see myself use it against a Rhymer-ball, especially if I do not have any squadrons/very few squadrons. For 5 points, it provides you with a 32% chance of dealing 4 damage to Rhymer, leaving him with only one hull left. That means it is a 50% chance of him dying every time a ship attack him after that (assuming the attacking ship only has a single blue die, which is worst case scenario). Even if you don't get 4 damage, it still provides you with good odds to inflict 2 damage. But like I said, I haven't used it (or had it used against me), so I'm just thinking out loud here.

Why not spend 8+ points and buy a fighter that can shoot more than once per game and doesn't have to get shot at first?

The way I see it (once again, just thinking about it, haven't tested it), is that a friendly squadron can be killed before it gets the chance to take care of Rhymer. It's also problematic if the Rhymers has escorts. A cluster bomb + a ship attack, is not affected by that. However, it might just force the opponent to use a squadron command like you said, but that in combination with losing 16 points (Rhymer cost) might be worth the 5 point investment that is Cluster bombs.

The math behind Cluster Bombs isn't too bad. 4 blue dice with no defense is a serious threat against any bomber, particularly expensive elites. Not on its own, of course, but it completely changes the equation from "probably won't get killed by Anti-Squadron fire" to "almost certainly will get killed by Anti-Squadron fire". Even against a lowly TIE Bomber, a 5 point card is worth it if it means killing a 9 point squadron that would otherwise survive. There's also a massive deterrent effect: if you manage to wound Rhymer (or any other bomber) early, the mere threat of a Cluster Bomb could dissuade your opponent from attacking with it, using it only for its special ability. That's 5 points spent to avoid eating 3-4 black dice, which isn't bad.

However, the real problem isn't the point cost, it's the opportunity cost: that defensive retrofit slot is simply too valuable for something like this, when you could be fielding ECM or AP instead.

However, the real problem isn't the point cost, it's the opportunity cost: that defensive retrofit slot is simply too valuable for something like this, when you could be fielding ECM or AP instead.

Sure, I agree that it's not probably as good as ECM/AP generally. But if you want to have a cheap way of dealing with Rhymer, I think it could be valuable (for the reasons we both stated).

Also, from a purely entertaining aspect, it's fun to mix it up now and then

I see cluster bombs being used (if at all) on 2 ships to counter rhymer backed up with intel. When rhymer has intel around him, he is quite nasty as everything around the intel ship at distance 1 has heavy and he and his friends can get their shots off on your ships as well as moving away. So it will be hard to lock him down.

However, the real problem isn't the point cost, it's the opportunity cost: that defensive retrofit slot is simply too valuable for something like this, when you could be fielding ECM or AP instead.

In addition to that, the way it triggers also is a drawback. Your enemy will see which vessel is carrying cluster bombs, and you cannot bring them to bear actively - you need to get bombed in order to clusterbomb back. Means, either you place it on a high value target (where your stated opportunity cost ticks in massively) or you risk that the enemy will simply stick to bombing the rest of your fleet while your clusterbombs are gathering dust..

If it would have been worded along "if you or a friendly ship within xy range (close-med?) is attacked by a squadron.." then this would be a different thing - but with the present wording its not competitive on high value caps compared to other defensive retrofits, and too situational on other caps

However, the real problem isn't the point cost, it's the opportunity cost: that defensive retrofit slot is simply too valuable for something like this, when you could be fielding ECM or AP instead.

In addition to that, the way it triggers also is a drawback. Your enemy will see which vessel is carrying cluster bombs, and you cannot bring them to bear actively - you need to get bombed in order to clusterbomb back. Means, either you place it on a high value target (where your stated opportunity cost ticks in massively) or you risk that the enemy will simply stick to bombing the rest of your fleet while your clusterbombs are gathering dust..

If it would have been worded along "if you or a friendly ship within xy range (close-med?) is attacked by a squadron.." then this would be a different thing - but with the present wording its not competitive on high value caps compared to other defensive retrofits, and too situational on other caps

So, I place it on the target I don't want to get bombed, and it provides a deterrance?

Daddy likey.

However, the real problem isn't the point cost, it's the opportunity cost: that defensive retrofit slot is simply too valuable for something like this, when you could be fielding ECM or AP instead.

In addition to that, the way it triggers also is a drawback. Your enemy will see which vessel is carrying cluster bombs, and you cannot bring them to bear actively - you need to get bombed in order to clusterbomb back. Means, either you place it on a high value target (where your stated opportunity cost ticks in massively) or you risk that the enemy will simply stick to bombing the rest of your fleet while your clusterbombs are gathering dust..

If it would have been worded along "if you or a friendly ship within xy range (close-med?) is attacked by a squadron.." then this would be a different thing - but with the present wording its not competitive on high value caps compared to other defensive retrofits, and too situational on other caps

So, I place it on the target I don't want to get bombed, and it provides a deterrance?

Daddy likey.

The issue I have with discard based cards is that this is not X-Wing. In X-Wing it makes sense to have limited amounts of ammunition or capabilities. Effects like Lando and Cluster Bombs are perfectly fine for once per turn effects.

8 points for a card that hits one squadron a turn that hits my ship and is just turned 90° to the side is perfectly fine in a slot that is jammed back with cheaper and sometimes more useful cards.

Lando would have been great as 1 or 2 points more and only works once per turn.

Sorry. . . Ranting now

Dont think i take cluster bombs.

Maybe if it effected all enemy ship at range 1 of the target