Dengar and ACD

By pgarfunkle, in X-Wing Rules Questions

Which triggers first?

Dengar says

"Once per round after defending if the attacker is inside your firing arc, you may perform an attack against that ship."

ACD says

"After you perform an attack, you may perform a free cloak action."

I've always understood the ACD to kick in once all of the steps in an attack are completed, would Dengar also kick in at the same time or would his ability kick in once the defenders steps are completed and before damage is resolved?

If so this would mean that Dengar could potentially attack before being destroyed no matter the initiative step.

If they kick in at the same time how would this be resolved? Whoever has initiative?

Hmm... I think that the attack is finished after all steps are resolved (till dealing damage) and that the same is for defending - as you are defending through out the whole attack, hence you are considere as defending until the last step of the attack is resolved.

Later, if Dengar is not killed, it would be the matter of initiative.

I can't see Dengar's ability interrupting a normal attack sequence for another attack - then proceeding to resolve the remaining steps of original attack - VERY messy - so yes - the full attack sequence would need to resolve before he gets to attack back.

As for whether he would get to attack back if destroyed, rules as written say no.in almost all circumstances.

The only time a ship is not immediately removed from play after receiving damage cards equal or in excess of its hull value would be under the simultaneous attack rule - where he shares pilot skill with the attacker and has not yet had an opportunity to fire - interestingly though as all card abilities remain in place while the "destroyed" ship is waiting to be removed, this would give Dengar 2 attacks (probably - depends on how you interpret "opportunity to attack" as his regular attack - or additional attack granted by the card ability)

Edited by Funkleton

Yeah I agree that it would be messy to interrupt the attack steps to perform the attack.

So if the return attack is performed after the attack is completed which do you think would trigger 1st, Dengar or the ACD

Yeah I agree that it would be messy to interrupt the attack steps to perform the attack.

So if the return attack is performed after the attack is completed which do you think would trigger 1st, Dengar or the ACD

As they both have the same timing trigger it's going to depend on initiative (rules ref p12) - if the TIE Phantom player with the ACD has initiative then he goes first - if Dengar has initiative then he goes first

Yeah, this is a sticky one isn't it? FFG has never really, as far as I can see, defined when "defending" concludes other than as Steps 4 and 5 of an Attack - Roll Defense Dice and Modify Defense Dice, but before Compare Results.

I can almost see it as written to be an interrupt, but that'll leave a LOT of dice on the table but would make Dengar a very serious threat. It makes a more playable sense to be a post attack.

Yeah, this is a sticky one isn't it? FFG has never really, as far as I can see, defined when "defending" concludes other than as Steps 4 and 5 of an Attack - Roll Defense Dice and Modify Defense Dice, but before Compare Results.

I can almost see it as written to be an interrupt, but that'll leave a LOT of dice on the table but would make Dengar a very serious threat. It makes a more playable sense to be a post attack.

Wording it as "after defending against an attack" would have clarified it, as an attack is a defined term and listed as the full sequence on pages 4 and 5 of the rules ref.

Then again, the only time you ever defend in this game is against an attack - so adding that phrase is largely redundant.

I think it's pretty clear that when an attack is finished, then the defence is finished at the same time. So Dengar would be able to do his thing only after all steps of the attack sequence are complete, and with ACD in the equation, timing is decided by initiative.

Which triggers first?

Dengar says

"Once per round after defending if the attacker is inside your firing arc, you may perform an attack against that ship."

ACD says

"After you perform an attack, you may perform a free cloak action."

I've always understood the ACD to kick in once all of the steps in an attack are completed, would Dengar also kick in at the same time or would his ability kick in once the defenders steps are completed and before damage is resolved?

If so this would mean that Dengar could potentially attack before being destroyed no matter the initiative step.

If they kick in at the same time how would this be resolved? Whoever has initiative?

Seems to be at the same time, so initiative is the key...

Edited by Warpman