https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2015/11/23/defend-echo-base/

Combat Suit looks like a pretty cool ability. Hope we see more of that later.

Unfortunately (as far as we know) you can't get Elite Echo Base Troopers in the campaign, only normal ones via completing that side mission. Although there could be a mission in the RtH expansion box that lets you unlock them like there is for rebel saboteurs. I'd say compared to rebel troopers it depends on the mission which one you should bring, but both seem to still pale in comparison to wookie warriors and rebel saboteurs.

Spam of troopers with Fenn Signis on the back could be funny to play. And those guys in sort range hit hard. Ability of Fenn triggers on a deployment card or only in a miniature? because 4 shots of the complete deployment card can hit hard.

Is there any more synergy with other leader / hero abilities related with troopers?

Fenn only triggers one model.

I will definitely be adding multiples of this ally pack to my collection. They work well for any of the Specfor forces, especially the elites.

Salcor

Fenn only gives a single trooper, not trooper deploymnet card, assault so no 4 shots, still 2 shots of green+red every turn is not bad (if you can set it up of course).

These guys actaully look good, both the regulars and elite. Regulars would even be good in a campaign game so they are a good ally to bring.

Combat suit is a cool upgrade but not sure it is worth a whole point, will depend on how your list looks like.

I am looking forward to this since I play Rebels mostly.

Combat Suit on Chewbacca is amusing. Gaarkhan as well. Others would be Han, Leia, Gideon, Fenn. For uniques.

And of course, the troopers for the non-uniques.

Combat suit on Leia is awful; who actually has pierce 1?

i think combat suits use is very limited. it doesn't add one block which is universally useful it negates one pierce which is quite specialised in its own right.

I think they're fine, but can't help comparing them to the Sabs. Obviously they trade speed for HP, but their surge abilities are so much worse.

The elites are pretty cool though - comparable to Royal Guards and Wookiees in power levels, but obviously different functions

Lousy skirmish upgrade.

i think combat suits use is very limited. it doesn't add one block which is universally useful it negates one pierce which is quite specialised in its own right.

Can't believe I didn't think of that.

Oh well, I suppose it can still be a neat ability when +1 block would make a card too powerful instead.

I figured out what the Combat Suit upgrade is for!

You use it when you're expecting a Rebel/Rebel mirror match against Saboteur spam. Turn what is essentially Pierce 4 into Pierce 2. (Of course, that's still an extreme corner case.)

This is a list of the current models with Pierce. I think it's deep enough that quite often you'll get an additional Block out of the card. It won't matter all of the times though, but I don't think it's that bad really. I've bolded those I feel is most likely to be seen on the field.

AT-ST

Vader

Weiss

RGC

Kayn

Probe Droid

Elite Probe Droid

Diala Passil

Gaarkhan

Jyn Odan

Luke Skywalker

Mak

R2-D2

Rebel Sabs

Elite Rebel Sabs

Rebel Trooper

Elite Rebel Trooper

Saska Teft

Boba Fett

Hired Gun

Nexu

Trandoshan Hunter

Elite Trandoshan Hunter

This is a list of the current models with Pierce. I think it's deep enough that quite often you'll get an additional Block out of the card. It won't matter all of the times though, but I don't think it's that bad really. I've bolded those I feel is most likely to be seen on the field.

AT-ST

Vader

Weiss

RGC

Kayn

Probe Droid

Elite Probe Droid

Diala Passil

Gaarkhan

Jyn Odan

Luke Skywalker

Mak

R2-D2

Rebel Sabs

Elite Rebel Sabs

Rebel Trooper

Elite Rebel Trooper

Saska Teft

Boba Fett

Hired Gun

Nexu

Trandoshan Hunter

Elite Trandoshan Hunter

Note the fact that only four of these bolded figures have pierce 1. Pierce 2 is relevant over pierce 1 less than half the time against most figures (Chewie and Garkhan are the relevant exceptions, against Leia or non-echo troopers it's never relevant). So usually all it'll do is "turn on" the second point of pierce.

Good point.

Well, obviously you are only going to ever equip it on a unit that can actually make use of it. Putting it on Mak would be silly for example.

Can the elite Echo Base Troopers also have the combat suit skirmish card on them for -2 pierce, or does the identical card text cancel out in some way?

Can a cross-faction inclusion like Boba Fett have it, so long as it is a Rebel list?

Well, obviously you are only going to ever equip it on a unit that can actually make use of it. Putting it on Mak would be silly for example.

Can the elite Echo Base Troopers also have the combat suit skirmish card on them for -2 pierce, or does the identical card text cancel out in some way?

Can a cross-faction inclusion like Boba Fett have it, so long as it is a Rebel list?

The point is it's only relevant in a small number of cases. Also it has trait requirements which currently no mercenary squad has. There's no reason it couldn't stack though.

Why not just put the suit on chewie? He has multiple defense dice, making the reduction in damage more likely to be useful, and he costs enough per health that if it triggers once its ok and if it triggers twice in a game its awesome.

Why not just put the suit on chewie? He has multiple defense dice, making the reduction in damage more likely to be useful, and he costs enough per health that if it triggers once its ok and if it triggers twice in a game its awesome.

Actually, multiple dice would make combat suit less useful. As there is a higher chance of you rolling high enough that pierce won't make a difference.

Why not just put the suit on chewie? He has multiple defense dice, making the reduction in damage more likely to be useful, and he costs enough per health that if it triggers once its ok and if it triggers twice in a game its awesome.

Actually, multiple dice would make combat suit less useful. As there is a higher chance of you rolling high enough that pierce won't make a difference.

That depends on your view. The times it doesn't matter because you rolled good enough (or they rolled bad enough) is fine. If they don't damage Chewie. Fine. With this upgrade, there should be more times where they don't damage Chewie. The more times they fire at Chewie without damaging him (or only giving very little damage) the more wasted shots/actions.

Why not just put the suit on chewie? He has multiple defense dice, making the reduction in damage more likely to be useful, and he costs enough per health that if it triggers once its ok and if it triggers twice in a game its awesome.

Actually, multiple dice would make combat suit less useful. As there is a higher chance of you rolling high enough that pierce won't make a difference.

Your math doesn't really check out on this one. Lets compare putting the suit on chewie, to putting it on someone with just one black die, to putting it on someone with just one white die, to putting it on someone like leia, with a white die and a free evade.

Lets take the example of the white die first. A white die rolls on average .5 blocks. That means that combat suit will save you one damage 50% of the time against pierce one and will never save you any damage at all against pierce 2 or 3 because the damage will still go through if you reduce 2 to 1 or 3 to 2.

Now lets look at the example of Leia with her white die and free evade. The stats are same as stated above, but there is an even greater chance of it being useless because many pierce abilities come from surges and she can cancel at least one surge for free.

Next there is the single black die. The single black die has an average roll of 1.5 blocks, distributed between sides of 0,1,1,2,2,3. This means that combat suit, given the opponent rolls sufficient damage to break through the blocks, will help against pierce 1 83% of the time, pierce 2 50% of the time, and pierce three 17% of the time. Not to shabby and a whole lot better than a white die.

Now lets look at chewie, with his princely white and black dual dice. On average a white die and a black die roll 2 blocks, with a distribution of 0,0,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,3,4,4,4,d,d,d,d,d,d. For those who don't feel like counting, that's 2 0's, 7 1,s , 10 2's, 8 3's, 3 4's, and 6 complete dodges. This means that given sufficient damage from the attacker, this is useful against pierce one 78% of the time, pierce 2 58% of the time, pierce 3 31% of the time, and even pierce 4 (elite sabs double surging for pierce) 8% of the time. On top of that, chewie is still dodging 17% of all attacks due to his white die.

Now you might say, "Wait a minute, Jamaican Lumberjack. Sufficient damage to go through the blocks rolled on a white die and a black die is a big assumption." Well, I am glad you mentioned that and I will seek to prove that is is not, statistically speaking, a terribly large assumption.

Lets compare the blocking ability of chewies black and white dice to the attacking power of some of the common attackers that have pierce. Lets take elite sabs and Luke's saber strike, both focused and unfocused, and Darth Vader's monstrous RRY saber attack. Both Luke and the sabs attacks deal an average of 3 damage, without counting in lukes surge for +2 damage. This should be enough, with pierce 2,3, or even 4, to punch through chewies defense dice. Now lets add in that ubiquitous focus on to those rolls. That brings both of these figures average rolls up to 4.5 damage, easily punching through chewies defense. If we look at Vader's RRY saber attack we get an average damage output of just over 5. This is easily enough to justify reducing his pierce from three to two.

Now that I have shown that Chewie's evade dice do not nullify the value of the combat suit, lets look at the actual points value of the combat suit. Lets assume he is only getting shot at by focused elite sabs (a generous assumption on the side of the sabs). These sabs are going to roll an average of about one surge per attack. (actually more like 1.3, but chewie has an around 50% chance of surge cancelling) Assuming these surges are always used for pierce (I know some would be used for stun, but we are saying that chewie is standing alone here so none will be used for blast) we will say pierce 2 on every attack. 4.5 damage with pierce 2 is the average attack out of these guys. Chewie blocks an average of 2, which means he would take an average of 4.5 damage with the pierce 2, dying in an average of 3 attacks. However, with combat suit, this gives him an effective plus 1 block per attack against these attacks, making the average 4 attacks to kill. This means that you are effectively adding 4 hitpoints to chewie. At his cost of approximately 1 point per hp this makes combat suit a good investment.

DISCLAIMER: I know that the math in this last paragraph is rather shoddy, as such take that part with a grain of salt because I dont have the time right now to do the more complex dice interaction math for the damage distributions. Please do not, however, let your view of that part taint your view of the portions above it, which clearly show that combat suit is, on average, better on chewie than on a model with a single black die.

If you put the combat suit on a Echo Base Trooper elite, would it reduce 2 pierce?

Thanks,

If you put the combat suit on a Echo Base Trooper elite, would it reduce 2 pierce?

Thanks,

yes

This is a list of the current models with Pierce. I think it's deep enough that quite often you'll get an additional Block out of the card. It won't matter all of the times though, but I don't think it's that bad really. I've bolded those I feel is most likely to be seen on the field.

AT-ST

Vader

Weiss

RGC

Kayn

Probe Droid

Elite Probe Droid

Diala Passil

Gaarkhan

Jyn Odan

Luke Skywalker

Mak

R2-D2

Rebel Sabs

Elite Rebel Sabs

Rebel Trooper

Elite Rebel Trooper

Saska Teft

Boba Fett

Hired Gun

Nexu

Trandoshan Hunter

Elite Trandoshan Hunter

It really doesn't matter how many figures have it. It matter how many figures that you'll see that play it. If only 2 figures had pierce, but you face them in 90% of your games, it would be worth it.

The most common Imperial list don't have pierce. Maybe with the errata that will change. And most of the Rebel list do have it.

If you are not facing list with pierce, then it is a wasted deployment slot. So--- until 90-100% of the field has pierce, it's a bad card.