Greetings all, my friend n I are long-time players of RB 2nd ed! This last weekend we bought n played the 3rd ed (YaY) and here is our 2 sides of the penny...

1. Dice} What's up with the stickers! That was a big surprise from FFG; In the long run, it might wear out sooner or later... Bad idea IMO

2. Combat tokens} Unique system for a style of game in the Runebound universe. They are quality tokens but Im wandering how it will last(Or not last) because they are oftenly being tossed in 1 gameplay. Probably a good idea would be to create a reasonable tray to use it for tossing the discs in! (with a poker-like mat in the tray)

3. Scenarios} Now that's interesting because everyone knows what objective they have to confront at end of game AND there is a time track. So its still a 'racing' game where you buildup your character faster than the others so you can be tackling the final boss before anyone else does. The main difference is the fact that everyone can die since the time track can end the scenario which unlike the 2nd ed is more 'a race to the top' without the sport of a time track.

4. Characters} Well, needless to say they start with basic setup and you advance your character in numerous ways possible; the Assets and Skill cards are plentifull so you can always have a different 'feel' of your character in a different game. Lotsa variety included.

5. Adventure cards/gems} Here is where we think alot of changes have been made. The different types of challenges is a fantastic idea; 3 types, you choose which way to go with your character. Although, it lacked a bit of combat in that area. You'll be spending more time intereacting with the board in some way(Like exploring) rather than fighting, which was the heart of 2nd ed IMO. Thats a disappointing notion, but when a combat DOES occur, I gotta say that my friend n I had a blast tossing the tokens and seeing how it was resolved. I really really wish there would be more fights in a gamerun.

I can go on for lots more... there are 2 issues that me n my friend wanted to mention!

1- More enemies to fight. A suggestion for future expansions would be- the 'Exploration' cards(Green) have them go somewhere where they have to fight a beast of some kind; like a lair hunt. At least we get more fighting because at the moment, it just feels like ALOT of 'explore and roll the move dice' is involed in that deck and thats it... pick the reward; no fights! Bah

2- one of the characters seem OverPowered... dont remember his name but its the one with the ability 'mind meld' where U pay two surges and damage gets reflected (Something like that). Its insanely strong; too strong IMO. We are thinking of creating a houserule for that one; most probable idea is the 'mind meld' will work on only 1 token. Uncertain though, still working ideas.

Nways, lemme know if you have ideas or opinions on those points! Thx

Interesting points. However, I disagree on Master Thorn's Mindmeld being too strong. It costs 2 Surges to set up and quite often Thorn dies before his enemy. Because even if the enemy deals enough damage to Thorn to defeat him and get enough damage back to die himself, it's still no good as Thorn will deal back the damage to his enemy after he has taken the damage. So he's defeated before the monster and the battle ends immediately. It's also easy to roll the tokens in such a way that Mind Meld cannot be setup immediately and the foe can use this time to deal damage that is not returned. Given that Master Thorn also has just 8 health and no defense symbols on the tokens, he's one of the squishiest characters in the game. He also has 0 body and those skills have some really good battle upgrades. But Master Thorn's saving grace is his Teleport ability which is awesome as it saves actions.

The strongest character in my opinion is Lyssa. She can go to combat right away and expect to do well. The ability to use surge to roll the terrain dice often makes up good damage. She can deal extra 3 damage right from the start. And as she gets more speed or explore bonus, this ability gets even more powerful. And she won't even lose an action if she gets defeated as she can just exert to heal the damage. From all the characters in the game, I think Lyssa is the most "broken". In the Margath scenario, her hero power is also a huge power boost as you always fight Margath in grassland meaning you have a 4/6 chance to get a matching terrain with a single terrain die. Now, if she has gotten even +1 speed, she explores with 4 dice and can easily deal 2-4 extra damage every combat round just with her hero power alone. None of the other hero powers seem quite as reliable at damage dealing.

As for the fighting, I kinda like it but I don't think the game needs more of that. It takes time and if you play with 3 or 4 players, it really adds up to the downtime for other players. A second set of combat tokens might be a good purchase if one plays regularly with 4 players as you can handle events such as Young Dragons simultaneously and save time.

I'm new to the Runebound series; however I have a few of the other titles in the Runebound universe; Descent, RuneAge etc.

Have played a handful of games with 3rd Ed. now and have some mixed feelings; leaning very much on the positive side though.

I love the theme and the scenarios, especially the story cards and quest cards being shuffled in for additional flavour. Love the approach but I'm a little disappointed that there were only two scenarios included...

I'd have been more than happy to pay a few extra bob for 1-2 more scenarios in the base set. Its just a handful of additional cards and say two tokens extra per scenario.

I've played each scenario twice and am already finding them a bit repetitive. That said, the variety in the characters, skills and equipment is great; I just wish there was a little more in the scenario variety too.

I find the Margath (or Margaret as we've been calling him ) scenario is also a little too easy. Have won it both times without any real investment in Lore tokens so all the story quests get left by the wayside which is a shame. The undead scenario is in a much better place I think. The zombies making him tougher actually feels significant during the game. Maybe I've just been lucky with character development but so far feels a little too easy in my books, which I wouldn't mind if there were more scenarios. But its worrying when only 50% of the scenarios are challenging.

Next up is attribute tests... Can't say I like the 'drawing cards and hoping for stars' approach. I think I'd have preferred using the dice for this. I appreciate this may overload the dice mechanics a bit, with the movement, exploring and some quest conditionals using them too. The cards approach just feels off though...

Besides that there isn't much else I don't like. Miniatures instead of tokens for the villians would have been nice, especially given they're present for half the game in both scenarios. The stickers on the dice are odd, but given the dice are bevelled I don't see any issues.

All round, very much enjoying the game but a bit disappointed that I'm eager for an expansion so soon after release due to the scenarios.

Needs more female characters. Apart from that, no real issues.

I too am new to Runebound. Overall its a good game, but I agree that dice would have been a lot better than tokens and attribute tests with cards.

Not only is it a wear-and-tear issue, but I find the tokens slow down the sequence of play. My kids are of different ages and the combat system is a bit too complicated for the younger one (bad decision making).

This would have also been a great solo game and the tokens take away a little from it as well, but can still be enjoyed.

It also makes it harder to add your own content, which is one aspect I love about FFG games.

So far so cool!

I love the tokens. It's just like casting runes.

I agree that dice would have been better than drawing skill cards. However, that's not hard to house rule if one counts the frequency. A quick count which I did not double-check gives 24/60 which reduces to 2/5 stars in the skill deck.

Yeah, successes are 40%

Well in that case, the chance of getting doubles (exactly the same combination of symbols, mind you: not just a plains on each) with 3d6 is 44%. It's close enough and simple enough that I'd be happy using it, and it doesn't involve importing un-thematic numbered dice into our game of runes and symbols.

A more exact result would be 1/3 + 1/12 but I can't think of an easy way to do that in a single roll.

Edit: Although now that I have thought about it, I don't like the idea of rolling dice for skill checks. After all, it's a skill check and there are skill cards so using those seems thematically linked.

I have no problem with using cards instead of dice, even if I thought I would have.

It's pretty neat and shuffles the ability deck some more, which is good, I believe - giving more diversity to every game and a bit of chaos too (it's harder to hunt the ability card You desire, but if You miss one, You can always count it'll be back in the game when whole deck will be reshuffled).

I love the argument that tossing the tokens are like casting runes.

This is so neat!

Very easy to control, but so many possibilities!

Dice is just fate - even if You can reroll some of them it's still just double take on fate.

Here, with the option to flip some tokens - You can exactly predict what You'll get and make Your battle strategy basing on that.

Easy, quick, and more in control - so far I just love it.

Sorry, I don't get why you can't use a simple 1d100? Two 10-sided dice, and it's done, no probs in the uneven distribution of the results

Anyhoo, I think it's extremely important to make one point clear at this purpose: there's a very big conceptual (and practical) difference in resolving the test with dice. The deck comes with a fixed and unmodifiable amount of results, while rolling dice could result in unpredictable situation (with successes scored at endgame in more than 40% of the cases or in less than 40% of the cases, making the game easier or harder). When we roll a die, we have a randomic result that only for higher count of rolls reflects the attended value (the 40%), while going with a deterministic set of good results implies that you have exactly those results granted throughout the deck. This allows metagaming like playing on the deck (4 heroes putting in play skills without a success marker for instance to raise the odds of success in the deck; counting the discarded successes before calcultating the odds of passing a test; and so on), while it's not possible with dice

Finally, without using the card-based system, you won't be able to use the Channel skill

Anyhoo, I think it's extremely important to make one point clear at this purpose: there's a very big conceptual (and practical) difference in resolving the test with dice. The deck comes with a fixed and unmodifiable amount of results, while rolling dice could result in unpredictable situation (with successes scored at endgame in more than 40% of the cases or in less than 40% of the cases, making the game easier or harder). When we roll a die, we have a randomic result that only for higher count of rolls reflects the attended value (the 40%), while going with a deterministic set of good results implies that you have exactly those results granted throughout the deck. This allows metagaming like playing on the deck (4 heroes putting in play skills without a success marker for instance to raise the odds of success in the deck; counting the discarded successes before calcultating the odds of passing a test; and so on), while it's not possible with dice

Good points. From a personal view it is a bit annoying to shuffle the deck when it runs out but the chance of success changes all the time so I prefer it over rolling dice. Also as mentioned, Channel won't work with dice.

One of my favorite ways to play the game is to play as Elder Mok and really build on his hero ability. I go through the skill deck a lot. I want to learn Well of Power (+1 Spirit) or Revelation (+2 Spirit), Inner Fire and maybe Magic Shield. Inner Fire lets me exert to use my hero skill one time extra in a combat round, Magic Shield is another skill that tests Spirit. Equipment that boosts spirit is good in this build. I also like the Lady Luck skill that allows me to ignore results of a skill check once per turn and do the test again. Then I want to use all the skill cards that have a success symbol in them and keep the ones that do not have it as long as possible.

Other skills that let me exert, let me draw skill cards or test spirit are helpful too.

Sorry, I don't get why you can't use a simple 1d100? Two 10-sided dice, and it's done, no probs in the uneven distribution of the results

Anyhoo, I think it's extremely important to make one point clear at this purpose: there's a very big conceptual (and practical) difference in resolving the test with dice. The deck comes with a fixed and unmodifiable amount of results, while rolling dice could result in unpredictable situation (with successes scored at endgame in more than 40% of the cases or in less than 40% of the cases, making the game easier or harder). When we roll a die, we have a randomic result that only for higher count of rolls reflects the attended value (the 40%), while going with a deterministic set of good results implies that you have exactly those results granted throughout the deck. This allows metagaming like playing on the deck (4 heroes putting in play skills without a success marker for instance to raise the odds of success in the deck; counting the discarded successes before calcultating the odds of passing a test; and so on), while it's not possible with dice

Finally, without using the card-based system, you won't be able to use the Channel skill

Because the game deliberately uses themed symbols instead of numbers. Once you add numbers people start thinking in numbers and it changes the feel of the game. Wanting to use 1d100 for a 40% check is a good example of this numerical spiral: the ideal roll would be 1d10 for 4- or 7+ but once you start thinking mathematically, the precision creep comes, and now 1d10 becomes 1d100.

As for the state of the deck changing the odds, a few % makes no real difference either way. The game is so spiky (the short term variance is so high) that it's hard to depend on statistics too much. This is one of the reasons FFG uses mechanisms like this: to prevent mathing out combat results. Now you're thinking about this too, and 1d10 for 4s becomes 1d100 for 40s which now becomes 1d100 for 44s ... Hopefully it won't become 1d1000 for 444s :-)

Channel isn't hard to rewrite. Draw a card if you made a test. Edit: Draw some cards and pick one.

I've u-turned again and now I could accept two terrain dice for doubles, or a card draw. Basically I want to use cards when I'm not playing as it "feels" more synergistic and immersive. But then once I start having to draw the stupid things, I want to use dice.

Interesting points. However, I disagree on Master Thorn's Mindmeld being too strong. It costs 2 Surges to set up and quite often Thorn dies before his enemy. Because even if the enemy deals enough damage to Thorn to defeat him and get enough damage back to die himself, it's still no good as Thorn will deal back the damage to his enemy after he has taken the damage. So he's defeated before the monster and the battle ends immediately. It's also easy to roll the tokens in such a way that Mind Meld cannot be setup immediately and the foe can use this time to deal damage that is not returned. Given that Master Thorn also has just 8 health and no defense symbols on the tokens, he's one of the squishiest characters in the game. He also has 0 body and those skills have some really good battle upgrades. But Master Thorn's saving grace is his Teleport ability which is awesome as it saves actions.

The strongest character in my opinion is Lyssa. She can go to combat right away and expect to do well. The ability to use surge to roll the terrain dice often makes up good damage. She can deal extra 3 damage right from the start. And as she gets more speed or explore bonus, this ability gets even more powerful. And she won't even lose an action if she gets defeated as she can just exert to heal the damage. From all the characters in the game, I think Lyssa is the most "broken". In the Margath scenario, her hero power is also a huge power boost as you always fight Margath in grassland meaning you have a 4/6 chance to get a matching terrain with a single terrain die. Now, if she has gotten even +1 speed, she explores with 4 dice and can easily deal 2-4 extra damage every combat round just with her hero power alone. None of the other hero powers seem quite as reliable at damage dealing.

As for the fighting, I kinda like it but I don't think the game needs more of that. It takes time and if you play with 3 or 4 players, it really adds up to the downtime for other players. A second set of combat tokens might be a good purchase if one plays regularly with 4 players as you can handle events such as Young Dragons simultaneously and save time.

I agree with you that Lyssa is broken. Her power is out of control strong and if you compare all her other stats vs the other heroes the only stat she is low on is her starting gold of 1. I don't like how her ability is so powerful compaired to items you might buy to increase your power by a 1 or 2 damge via weapons etc is nothing compaired to her ability. Plus if you get the right ability cards she can use her skill multipule times and even not pay for the surge cost the second use.

I peronally think she needs a home rule to nerf her power in some way to keep it on par with what can be attained in other ways via items and ability cards.

ahhhh with 4 players now I see the point of the extra token set.

I'm new to the Runebound series; however I have a few of the other titles in the Runebound universe; Descent, RuneAge etc.

Have played a handful of games with 3rd Ed. now and have some mixed feelings; leaning very much on the positive side though.

I love the theme and the scenarios, especially the story cards and quest cards being shuffled in for additional flavour. Love the approach but I'm a little disappointed that there were only two scenarios included...

I'd have been more than happy to pay a few extra bob for 1-2 more scenarios in the base set. Its just a handful of additional cards and say two tokens extra per scenario.

I've played each scenario twice and am already finding them a bit repetitive. That said, the variety in the characters, skills and equipment is great; I just wish there was a little more in the scenario variety too.

I find the Margath (or Margaret as we've been calling him ) scenario is also a little too easy. Have won it both times without any real investment in Lore tokens so all the story quests get left by the wayside which is a shame. The undead scenario is in a much better place I think. The zombies making him tougher actually feels significant during the game. Maybe I've just been lucky with character development but so far feels a little too easy in my books, which I wouldn't mind if there were more scenarios. But its worrying when only 50% of the scenarios are challenging.

Next up is attribute tests... Can't say I like the 'drawing cards and hoping for stars' approach. I think I'd have preferred using the dice for this. I appreciate this may overload the dice mechanics a bit, with the movement, exploring and some quest conditionals using them too. The cards approach just feels off though...

Besides that there isn't much else I don't like. Miniatures instead of tokens for the villians would have been nice, especially given they're present for half the game in both scenarios. The stickers on the dice are odd, but given the dice are bevelled I don't see any issues.

All round, very much enjoying the game but a bit disappointed that I'm eager for an expansion so soon after release due to the scenarios.

You say the quest Margath is too easy?

I've played solo about 4 times each time with different heroes all with the Margath quest. I have only won once due to Lyssa's crazy imba skill which I was rolling 6 dice and able to use it as many times as I had surges as well as a free second use. And I could exert to reroll dice to max the damage. It made the Boss 0 challenge, and its clear to me her skill is broken.

The other 3 heroes all failed and died pretty fast to the boss. Margath is a very formidable foe. I was able to get many lore tokens and in all 3 defeats I just couldn't with stand the heavy damage I would get each round with 7 tokens against my at most 4-5. The closest hero that did decent was the wizard with his reflect damage skill but I couldn't survive the boss damage.

Solo it feels like there is just not enough time to buff up in time. In a 4 player game im sure its even worse and you are expected to take down that boss with even less power due to competition. It feels like the prices of the items are high and in a game I can at most afford maybe 2 or 3 items. What's frustrating is the only reason I can't buff up more and do more adventuring is the way too quick turn time token mechanic.

Its like they wanted to shorten the game length since so many ppl always complain about that in games these days but honestly I personally dont mind games that take more time. And unfortunately for me the pressure against the clock is so tight that you feel really defeated if you fail a battle and wind up dead having to give up a action to heal and then the rest of your turn moving to a town and healing. The loss of turns and time hits harder due to the short pace of the game imo. It feels like a mad dash to see if anyone can just kamakazi the boss as soon as he shows up and that is at the expense of the other players and imo not a good game mechanic.

Lastly you got Corbain to just add insult to injury. I can see a player just picking him up purely just to troll the other players.

I have yet to try the other story as its supposedly even harder.

Needs more female characters. Apart from that, no real issues.

Did you notice the female char's seem stronger than the males. ... ... Lyssa for example. I would have rather they made the male fighter knight dude a bit stronger in comparison.

I have only won once due to Lyssa's crazy imba skill which I was rolling 6 dice and able to use it as many times as I had surges

Remember that You can use every hero ability just once per turn - the only exception is Inner Fire skill, which allows You to use it twice.

Lyssa's power IS indeed powerful, but it all depends on the other cards (mainly skill and gear cards) You acquire during play.

For example in my plays, it seems that the Mok is overpowered rather than Lyssa, because there is many skills that test magic to bend the rules and he have greater control of the skills to come. If You focus on this while playing him (hard to do something else), You'll probably end as a winner.

But it's ok, I guess - it's a game of competition, all the heroes are great at some points. I don't see Lyssa stands out in this aspect very much.

Did you notice the female char's seem stronger than the males. ... ... Lyssa for example. I would have rather they made the male fighter knight dude a bit stronger in comparison.

I would disagree. Lyssa is ok, but when I play Laurel I always suck!

Never seen her winning so far - but I'm sure I'll find a way to do so someday!

In my opinion, the problem is that some heroes have their abilities very tied to their tactics (like Mok - magic, Lyssa - movement, warriors - fighting) and some of them not so much (the others). But, playing them is still so fun! I wouldn't say the game as a whole is broken because of this.

And, if You like, You can always make a home rule that Lyssa and Mok must exert while using their special surge ability. Or pay gold, or anything . It's Your game after all.

In my opinion, the problem is that some heroes have their abilities very tied to their tactics (like Mok - magic, Lyssa - movement, warriors - fighting) and some of them not so much (the others). But, playing them is still so fun! I wouldn't say the game as a whole is broken because of this.

This. Some heroes are easier to use, some other heroes are harder. This doesn't mean that "easy to use" heroes are broken and the other guys are crap. I've seen games where Thorn or Mok won easily final combat and Lyssa and Laurel were stomped to death.

Each character has something he's better at than the others; then it's up to us finding the correct way to develop it, and farm the decks for the right items and skills.

@ Oldtimer: winning 1/4 with Margath implies (sorry, don't take this the wrong way) that there's something wrong with your general strategy. My winning record vs Margath (18 games played so far) is 70-30% and in some games we attacked the dragon even before the end of Act 2; additionally, it's a general consensum that Margath is not that difficult as a scenario (some find it too easy): there are a few threads about this on BGG you may want to look at for reference. Also, if you could cross-check these parameters with your own games:

- in each game a hero should gain between 18 and 22 gold

- in each game a hero should gain between 8 and 11 trophies

If you don't fall into these range categories, then as said, you need a better strategy. I can guarantee you that if you match both the quoted criteria, then you have more than a fair chance at winning the game

Lyssa's power level depends on the number of players. If you have 4 players or more, the plains/easy terrain encounters run out quickly and she's not as strong.

The mindmeld guy really needs initiative. If he doesn't get it, he has problems. If he does, he is superman. The character is one of extremes in combat.

Edit: I guess I should add it may well depend on your group. Some people might not try to shut down other characters (for example by nicking easy terrain encounters to sabotage Lyssa) - ours does.

I don't rate her other ability that much. If she is defeated she can exert to heal. Big deal. The mob is discarded and she gets nothing. She'd have been better off healing before going in, and getting the trophy.

With 3 players we could basically never beat Margath, he could deal massive amounts of damage and/or just heal anything anyone could throw at him, barring crazy skill/item combos.

He'd just faceroll us with 7-8+ damage every round (we started calling it the damage dumptruck). Any key symbols would get flipped to something less useful, then he'd heal.

Really the biggest issue was being tough enough to have a hope of denting him and still getting any Lore. Admittedly we only had a couple games, but it was brutal.

Laurel... seems like the most random character as well. If she got easy explorations she'd do alright, but any fight was a death sentence. She basically has a dead token until she finds some gear that uses surges, which requires money... that she probably doesn't have since she can't fight anything reliably. If there aren't goods in the shop of the town she starts near, she seemed really weak.

Quote:

Remember that You can use every hero ability just once per turn - the only exception is Inner Fire skill, which allows You to use it twice.

_________________

Define "turn". From how I understand it combat is in Rounds and each round you can use your skills. When you are done useing your flip coins and you both recast you move to the next Round and can use your skills again.

The golden rule says cards over rule the rule book and the cards I had were:

Jack of all trades "you may trigger each surge ability twice during each combat ROUND"

And Inner fire "Once per combat ROUND as a combat action, you may exert to trigger the surge ability on your hero. (free) This allows you to trigger that surge ability more than once per combat ROUND."

When you are fighting a monster you have multiple rounds you go through each time you can reuse these abilities. Its still broken imo. At a minimum you get to do it twice and I could do 6 dice each time. Thats still far better than any other combo I've seen possible in the game for the cost of the cards to buy the extra movement dice and ring that adds an extra die to exploring. But how I see it you can use both cards and do it 3 times in one round if you have the surges and exert cards needed.

In my opinion, the problem is that some heroes have their abilities very tied to their tactics (like Mok - magic, Lyssa - movement, warriors - fighting) and some of them not so much (the others). But, playing them is still so fun! I wouldn't say the game as a whole is broken because of this.

This. Some heroes are easier to use, some other heroes are harder. This doesn't mean that "easy to use" heroes are broken and the other guys are crap. I've seen games where Thorn or Mok won easily final combat and Lyssa and Laurel were stomped to death.

Each character has something he's better at than the others; then it's up to us finding the correct way to develop it, and farm the decks for the right items and skills.

@ Oldtimer: winning 1/4 with Margath implies (sorry, don't take this the wrong way) that there's something wrong with your general strategy. My winning record vs Margath (18 games played so far) is 70-30% and in some games we attacked the dragon even before the end of Act 2; additionally, it's a general consensum that Margath is not that difficult as a scenario (some find it too easy): there are a few threads about this on BGG you may want to look at for reference. Also, if you could cross-check these parameters with your own games:

- in each game a hero should gain between 18 and 22 gold

- in each game a hero should gain between 8 and 11 trophies

If you don't fall into these range categories, then as said, you need a better strategy. I can guarantee you that if you match both the quoted criteria, then you have more than a fair chance at winning the game

One could also argue the opposite: The ppl who think its too easy are playing some of the rules incorrect there by affecting the ease of victory.

To my knoledge I'm playing correct and everytime I have a question I pause and go dig in the rules refernce to see how to play it correct.

The next game I play I'll look into how much gold and trophies I attain along the way. So far with playing solo I have engaged in the boss fight at the last possible moment as there are no other players to compete with and this gave me more time to upgrade.

The only thing I can think of is exerting during the boss fight.

There is also just bad luck with the flipping of the coins and the Boss has the potential to dish out massive damage. Personnaly I just feel like I never get enough time and gold to really buy a full setup for my char, and I don't enjoy deadline mechanics in games I play. Im lucky to get 2 or 3 pieces of gear. Skills are easier but most of them are geared to helping you with quests or more stats to pass tests etc and not directly aimed at improving your end boss fight with damage or defense.

Lyssa's power level depends on the number of players. If you have 4 players or more, the plains/easy terrain encounters run out quickly and she's not as strong.

The mindmeld guy really needs initiative. If he doesn't get it, he has problems. If he does, he is superman. The character is one of extremes in combat.

Edit: I guess I should add it may well depend on your group. Some people might not try to shut down other characters (for example by nicking easy terrain encounters to sabotage Lyssa) - ours does.

I don't rate her other ability that much. If she is defeated she can exert to heal. Big deal. The mob is discarded and she gets nothing. She'd have been better off healing before going in, and getting the trophy.

The boss fight with Margath is on plains the entire time so this is not a factor.

With 3 players we could basically never beat Margath, he could deal massive amounts of damage and/or just heal anything anyone could throw at him, barring crazy skill/item combos.

He'd just faceroll us with 7-8+ damage every round (we started calling it the damage dumptruck). Any key symbols would get flipped to something less useful, then he'd heal.

Really the biggest issue was being tough enough to have a hope of denting him and still getting any Lore. Admittedly we only had a couple games, but it was brutal.

Laurel... seems like the most random character as well. If she got easy explorations she'd do alright, but any fight was a death sentence. She basically has a dead token until she finds some gear that uses surges, which requires money... that she probably doesn't have since she can't fight anything reliably. If there aren't goods in the shop of the town she starts near, she seemed really weak.

Also the time in turns to get her up to speed with the other heros is a major factor since time is so important.

The heal on the dragon also hurts success and makes the fight more spiky than it should be as to be successful you have to be able to out dps the healing and survive while doing it. So its harder to try and slowly widdle him down over time. Or find a way to soak up his surges and have good inititive to act first.

He'd just faceroll us with 7-8+ damage every round (we started calling it the damage dumptruck). Any key symbols would get flipped to something less useful, then he'd heal.

He can't heal faster than you damage him

Could you possibly post the equipment you were using / the skills you had learned while challenging him?