Aggressor should have gotten some terror tacics and super-maneuverability...

But yeah, they have almost the same niches, Uber-fighter that is

And I agree. The Defender should be an uber-fighter for those kind of points. It needs a title fix that keeps the ship unique.

How about this... A free (or 1 point) title that cancels 1 evade result on the defending player's dice results.

My thought process is this: The Defender is the only ship that is 30+ points without a Crew and/or System slot. It is forced to rely on luck when it comes to the dice. My proposed ability evens the score a little bit by removing a die result (instead of just a die).

At a base of 30 points, the Defender should have an ability this good.

It's a shame the fluff doesn't support adding crew - a title that gives a free / discounted crew would work quite nicely - Rec Spec Rex would be a pretty awesome thing

FFG likes to keep each ship unique. B-wings got a crew upgrade (because, yeah... they needed that!), Advanced received a System upgrade, and A-wings got a missile discount and an extra EPT.

I do like the idea of a cannon's effect being added to the regular attack. That would be new and different. Ion, Flechette, and Autoblaster cannons would add nasty effects to an attack!

Made it three pages before it became another "Let's fix teh Defenduhr" thread but: how abouts a title for Defender that says

"When attacking with a cannon secondary weapon, you do not cancel dice results."

Pretty simple and would make the Defender a freaking monster because:

Tractor Beam- only one point to add a tractor token that does... something?!?

Flechette- only two points for a bonus damage! (and a stress, if not stressed)

Ion- three points for bonus damage! and ion! (too strong? maybe)

Back to the subject at hand. How would this work as a variation on palpmobile:

How would this work as a variation on palpmobile:

Colonel Vessery (35)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Heavy Laser Cannon (7)

Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

"Omega Leader" (21)

Juke (2)

Comm Relay (3)

Omicron Group Pilot (21)

Emperor Palpatine (8)

Total: 99

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Defender is too expensive to pair with traditional Aces but Omega Leader fits in quite nicely. Could trade out VI for Crackshot but I like having the option to activate in either order.

My problem with Vesseray is that his pilot ability is not a good fit inside the Imperial Navy. TLs are much more common with Rebels. What ship, other than Advanced with ATC, use TL? Your FO will be taking target locks, and your shuttle could when it isn't stressed. You'll find that Vesseray's ability still won't proc very often. It's disappointing. His pilot ability would fit much better inside the Empire if he received a TL on an enemy ship that had already been fired upon that round.

This is one of the better Vesseray lists I've seen though, in the sense of actually trying to take advantage of his ability rather than just his PS.

Technically lambda with title and weapons engineer is the best target locker ever...

I'm also moderately interested in running vessery with redline but haven't built anything yet.

I've been playing with variations of this build for a while now. Vessery's ability actually procs most of the time.

Colonel Vessery (35)
Ruthlessness (3)
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

Gamma Squadron Pilot (18)
Extra Munitions (2)
Homing Missiles (5)
Proximity Mines (3)
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

Zeta Squadron Pilot (16)

Zeta Squadron Pilot (16)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

I haven't found a loadout for the Bomber that I'm completely happy with yet. Prox mines are inconsistent, but nice when they work. I alternate between them and Conner Nets. I'm also been switching between Homing Missiles and Concussion Missiles. I've actually been pretty impressed with Concussion Missiles. I find they land more consistent damage than Homing Missiles in practice, though Homing Missiles are dramatically better vs evade-capable ships. I'll eventually find a combination between items that I'm happy with.

I opted for higher-PS pilots mostly to assist vs low-PS TLTs. It's been working out so far.

There are no predictable ships only predictable pilots.

Actually the better i get, the more i find its actually this:

"There are no unprediactable pilots, they're all dead."

I love it when someone plays unpredictably. They tend to hamstring themselves with really bad risk management understanding. And blow up subsequently in a few turns.

The trick is to be lightly unpredictable. Unpredictable when it matters. Solid in form otherwise. Its amazing how many people lose to simple efficiency.

Yeah, X-wing is a game where it's easy to get cute and hamstring yourself.

A few weeks back imp vs rebel game wedge and rex were jousting my friend thinks I'm going to speed in for a range one attack so he k turns wedge, what I actually did was a one bank so I ended up behind wedge at range one and vaped him.

He planned on my predictability and it bit him in the butt literally.

For whatever reason, I have a pretty good sense when people are going to try and block a K-turn. A 2-straight or 1-bank often gives me unanswered shots.

Sincere apologies to original post, but threw this build together on the fly ... Sorry Bio, still need my 'training wheels' on my Defender ...

TIE/fo Fighter: · "Omega Leader" (21)

Juke (2)

Shield Upgrade (4)

Comm Relay (3)

TIE Defender: · Colonel Vessery (35)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Heavy Laser Cannon (7)

Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

TIE Advanced: · Lieutenant Colzet (23)

XX-23 S-Thread Tracers (1)

Munitions Failsafe (1)

TIE/x1 (0)

Sensor Jammer (0)

Don't know how viable, but when I was building it thought it might be something I would fly..

Aggressor should have gotten some terror tacics and super-maneuverability...

But yeah, they have almost the same niches, Uber-fighter that is

And I agree. The Defender should be an uber-fighter for those kind of points. It needs a title fix that keeps the ship unique.

How about this... A free (or 1 point) title that cancels 1 evade result on the defending player's dice results.

My thought process is this: The Defender is the only ship that is 30+ points without a Crew and/or System slot. It is forced to rely on luck when it comes to the dice. My proposed ability evens the score a little bit by removing a die result (instead of just a die).

At a base of 30 points, the Defender should have an ability this good.

It's a shame the fluff doesn't support adding crew - a title that gives a free / discounted crew would work quite nicely - Rec Spec Rex would be a pretty awesome thing

If the Defender could take Moldy Crow...

So I played a couple of games yesterday using:

Rex with Predator, HLC and Mk2 engines.

4 x Obsidian TIE Fighters.

First game was against two interceptors (Soontir, VI Turr) and Vader. I won 100 - 0.

Interceptors jousted the TIES and Turr melted. Rexlar outflanked Vader and pushed the damage through quite nicely with minimal damage, if any. Can't remember.

However, second and third games were against:

Miranda with Tact and TLT

Gray with TLT, R2-A3 and Title

Vrill with APL and Intel Agent.

Both ended badly.

First match - Priority to Rebels

I flew all four TIES at Vrill knowing he was going to block and that he needed to die ASAP. I had Rex on the flank again covered by asteroids hoping to avoid the stress wing.

By the first engagement the TIES, all four at range 2 of Vrill managed a WHOOPING 2 hits. Rex opened up and managed 1. Great, in return the Y wing was mm in range 3 of Rex and he lost all his shields and took two stress.

Tried to disengage Rex to recover but four natural hits from Vrill saw him wiped off the map. Miranda and the Y killed a TIE and damaged another whilst I managed to take the last two shields of Vrill.

Next turn and all three of my remaining TIES were stressed and flying to avoid the APL from Vrill, the combination of four dice from him and another four dice from Miranda killed another two TIES. Very next turn Miranda's TLT won the game.

Second game - Priority to Imperials.

Tried to kite and pull his fleet through the rocks and again kept Rex off to the side. This helped in denying a SLAM from Miranda but two hard 3 banks and barrel rolls got Vrill across the board pretty quick.

I baited Miranda and the Y with Rex and whilst hiding behind a rock with a focus token at range 3, both TLT stripped Rex of all his shields and once again, two stress.

The TIES burned Vrill hard dealing six damage in total with no return damage.

Now it was over, Rex cleared stress and aimed for Vrill, hoping to put the nail in coffin whilst avoiding the Y wing arc. However, both Vrill and Miranda were at range 2 of him and he was going to die. Without a focus, I rolled four focus results, predator rerolled into a focus result and that was game.

Miranda done two damage to Rex and Vrill finished him off. The TIES managed to kill the Y wing as he foolishly ended up at range 1 of all three but four dice from Miranda killed one and four dice from Vrill killed another.

Next turn, Miranda and Vrill did the same again.

Trying to think of what I could of done differently but having a 48 point ship die because something sniffed at it is disappointing and range 3 is exceptionally hard to avoid without boost. Can't help but feel the Aggressor is what the TIE/D should have been . . .

Tlt is nasty for any ship without AT I used a scum list last week kavil had TLT and he tore apart n'dru first then talonbane with ease.

If your not prepared for them they'll hurt.

So I played a couple of games yesterday using:

Rex with Predator, HLC and Mk2 engines.

4 x Obsidian TIE Fighters.

First game was against two interceptors (Soontir, VI Turr) and Vader. I won 100 - 0.

Interceptors jousted the TIES and Turr melted. Rexlar outflanked Vader and pushed the damage through quite nicely with minimal damage, if any. Can't remember.

However, second and third games were against:

Miranda with Tact and TLT

Gray with TLT, R2-A3 and Title

Vrill with APL and Intel Agent.

Both ended badly.

First match - Priority to Rebels

I flew all four TIES at Vrill knowing he was going to block and that he needed to die ASAP. I had Rex on the flank again covered by asteroids hoping to avoid the stress wing.

By the first engagement the TIES, all four at range 2 of Vrill managed a WHOOPING 2 hits. Rex opened up and managed 1. Great, in return the Y wing was mm in range 3 of Rex and he lost all his shields and took two stress.

Tried to disengage Rex to recover but four natural hits from Vrill saw him wiped off the map. Miranda and the Y killed a TIE and damaged another whilst I managed to take the last two shields of Vrill.

Next turn and all three of my remaining TIES were stressed and flying to avoid the APL from Vrill, the combination of four dice from him and another four dice from Miranda killed another two TIES. Very next turn Miranda's TLT won the game.

Second game - Priority to Imperials.

Tried to kite and pull his fleet through the rocks and again kept Rex off to the side. This helped in denying a SLAM from Miranda but two hard 3 banks and barrel rolls got Vrill across the board pretty quick.

I baited Miranda and the Y with Rex and whilst hiding behind a rock with a focus token at range 3, both TLT stripped Rex of all his shields and once again, two stress.

The TIES burned Vrill hard dealing six damage in total with no return damage.

Now it was over, Rex cleared stress and aimed for Vrill, hoping to put the nail in coffin whilst avoiding the Y wing arc. However, both Vrill and Miranda were at range 2 of him and he was going to die. Without a focus, I rolled four focus results, predator rerolled into a focus result and that was game.

Miranda done two damage to Rex and Vrill finished him off. The TIES managed to kill the Y wing as he foolishly ended up at range 1 of all three but four dice from Miranda killed one and four dice from Vrill killed another.

Next turn, Miranda and Vrill did the same again.

Trying to think of what I could of done differently but having a 48 point ship die because something sniffed at it is disappointing and range 3 is exceptionally hard to avoid without boost. Can't help but feel the Aggressor is what the TIE/D should have been . . .

I think you'd be better off with a different 52 points alongside Rexler, along with perhaps going mangler to save points.

IDK, I think that unless you're going VI on Rexler for PS 10, you're best with Vessery with VI or perhaps adrenaline rush or whatever. This leaves you ~60 points, which allows something better than 4x Obsidian like 4x Crack Squadron. I'm going to be part of the problem here and suggest a fat deci also, lol.

IG's can have AT - Tie Defenders can't.

Thats a huge difference in the Age of TLT.

Maybe I am expecting too much from the Defender and considering it is one of the few Imperial ships that can take cannons, I am falling into a trap of increasing it's already bloated cost.

How about:

Col. Vess with VI, Mk2 and Mangler Cannon

Omega Sqd with Crack shot

Omega Sqd with Crack shot

Omega Leader with Juke

All ships can help Col. Vess proc his ability and they should see consistent damage output when needed.

How this copes with the stress meta though? Col. Vess can get his ability rolling regardless of stress and I REALLY love the white k in a stress inducing world.

Drop the Mangler on Vessery and give Comm Relay to Omega Leader and you should be good to go.

I like Vessery as a big hitter with HLC and Outmanouver.

But then you have only 55 points left....

OK ... here comes an almost naked Vessery in an thematic list:

Colonel Vessery (36)
TIE Defender (35), Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

“Backstabber” (16)

Dark Curse (16)

Colonel Jendon (32)
Lambda-Class Shuttle (26), Darth Vader (3), ST-321 (3)

Yes its Vader's shuttle with Vader in it and 2 of his pilots escorting. Its all PS6. And there will be TLs about.

Maybe I am expecting too much from the Defender and considering it is one of the few Imperial ships that can take cannons, I am falling into a trap of increasing it's already bloated cost.

I think with the named Defenders, throwing more points in actually makes sense. 30 points is not good for a PS1 delta, even if the ship has a good statline. 7 points is a modest price to pay for increasing PS by 7 (to a very useful 8), getting an EPT slot, and having a pilot ability that is useful every once in a while. Then you pay 7 points for an HLC because not only do you get 25% more red dice, you actually get more than 25% more damage against most targets, because some of your successes are canceled. Even one extra success can be a 100% damage increase against a lot of targets. Throw in Predator or Lone Wolf (depending on the rest of the list) to get the most out of your red dice for another modest points increase. Finally, you want to protect this ball of hate, so you throw a 3 point Hull Upgrade on him for a solid 50 points. This ridiculous thing is now 20 points more than the base Delta, but it's not throwing good points after bad. You have a fairly tough, fast, high PS ship capable of doing massive damage every turn. It protects itself by killing targets before it can be shot at, maneuvering in such a way as to limit shots on it, and forcing attackers to use lots of unmodified red dice rolls.

Every upgrade on the ship makes all the other upgrades better (the basic argument for any fat ship). The high PS helps do damage and avoid damage and make the most out of the Barrel Roll (which helps avoid damage itself). The HLC and EPT re-rolls do damage, which helps the ship avoid damage in the long run. The Hull Upgrade (and Lone Wolf if it's present and active) make the ship tougher, allowing it to be alive to do damage longer.

None of these upgrades are subtle, tricky, fancy-pants sorts of upgrades, they're all straight-forward, raw power, bury the other guy in the ground sorts of upgrades, and I think that matters for the Defender.

Maybe I am expecting too much from the Defender and considering it is one of the few Imperial ships that can take cannons, I am falling into a trap of increasing it's already bloated cost.

I think with the named Defenders, throwing more points in actually makes sense. 30 points is not good for a PS1 delta, even if the ship has a good statline. 7 points is a modest price to pay for increasing PS by 7 (to a very useful 8), getting an EPT slot, and having a pilot ability that is useful every once in a while. Then you pay 7 points for an HLC because not only do you get 25% more red dice, you actually get more than 25% more damage against most targets, because some of your successes are canceled. Even one extra success can be a 100% damage increase against a lot of targets. Throw in Predator or Lone Wolf (depending on the rest of the list) to get the most out of your red dice for another modest points increase. Finally, you want to protect this ball of hate, so you throw a 3 point Hull Upgrade on him for a solid 50 points. This ridiculous thing is now 20 points more than the base Delta, but it's not throwing good points after bad. You have a fairly tough, fast, high PS ship capable of doing massive damage every turn. It protects itself by killing targets before it can be shot at, maneuvering in such a way as to limit shots on it, and forcing attackers to use lots of unmodified red dice rolls.

Every upgrade on the ship makes all the other upgrades better (the basic argument for any fat ship). The high PS helps do damage and avoid damage and make the most out of the Barrel Roll (which helps avoid damage itself). The HLC and EPT re-rolls do damage, which helps the ship avoid damage in the long run. The Hull Upgrade (and Lone Wolf if it's present and active) make the ship tougher, allowing it to be alive to do damage longer.

None of these upgrades are subtle, tricky, fancy-pants sorts of upgrades, they're all straight-forward, raw power, bury the other guy in the ground sorts of upgrades, and I think that matters for the Defender.

I completely agree with everything written above. In my experience, I have had Rexler Brath (HLC, LoneWolf, Shield) fight 1 vs 3, 1 vs 4 and one time 1 vs 5 and win. Unfortunately, with an ability that takes AWAY his action rather than give him a free one (looking at you Vader, Whisper, Fel) he is incredibly unreliable. Every single upgrade though really helps on the Tie Defender and it also makes the ship significantly more enjoyable to fly than a lvl 1 version with no upgrades.

I've learned Rex can be worth it if he is able to get a HLC and TL and 2 Focus tokens every round of combat.

In epic thats not much of a problem. In 100 points standard play its a huge one. You have to build your list around Rexler and thats just not worth it.

What about:

Vessery + Crackshot + TIE MK II

2x Crack Squadron

1x Epsilon Squadron

1x Omega Squadron + Crackshot

The idea here is that the FO's TL things for Vessery, and that Vessery with Focus + TL + Crackshot is an offensive powerhouse.

I think that squad works, but I wonder if you can find 3 points to add in an Ion Cannon. Swarms do really horrific things to immobilized ships.

I think that squad works, but I wonder if you can find 3 points to add in an Ion Cannon. Swarms do really horrific things to immobilized ships.

1.) 5 ships is not a swarm.

2.) Downgrading the Epsilon to an Academy Pilot gets you enough points. This sacrifices a TL boat though, so when the Omega is lost you will no longer have Vessery's ability. You also lose the ability to TL 2 different things and have options with Vessery.

3.) I've found the control cannons on Defenders to be traps. You're better off going full offense primary. Once you've sunk so much into a Defender you can't afford to be capped at one damage.