Good god it was 15 years ago.

Yes, and it has to be said that the visual design of ep. I-III was excellent, especially the first two, which had Doug Chiang's work. Adding in Lucas' style of directing aimed at visual storytelling, I find it hard to think of a better looking film , where visuals and story match so seamlessly. (As a Zhang Yimou fan, I have to mention Hero though.)

Pretty sure the movie's called Empire Strikes Back.

And then they will run out of ships.

We've seen the declarative statements before in many places made by many people.

The CEO has said in an interview it is civil war period forward. You will have to get your episode 1-3 fix elsewhere.

I'm not going to say never on prequel ships. Had that argument too many times, i'm not gonna say never on the XG-1 either.

With the prequel ships I am just gonna say "not any time soon". And who can blame them? Even with the success of TCW and the appreciation of the artistic choices with the prequel trilogy ships, the stigma of being associated with the prequels will hamper every effort.

It's hilarious how the stigma of using Republic craft is so closely mirrored IRL and in-setting.

It's hilarious to read comments on how awful it was, with the only arguement being a gungan.

Well, I'm reasonably sure Hayden Unpronouncable is a human, but given how badly he plays one the jury might still be out on that.

It's hilarious to read comments on how awful it was, with the only arguement being a gungan.

The chemistry between Natalie Portman and Hayden Christiansen was godawful, making it an even worse love story than Twilight.

The plot holes were painful in places.

Space chinese being the main baddies, COME ON!

Little kid Anakin blowing up the droid control ship was dumb.

Comedy value battle droids?!?!?

I mean if you are going to have robot killing machines, they should at least be soulless robot killing machines, for a better take on them - see Republic commando.

Jar Jar was the visible face of the prequels, he was the scapegoat, and scapegoats need to die. But he was merely a symptom of bigger issues with the movies.

There are other niggles as well, but if i went for them i'd have to hold the OT to the same standard, and the OT isn't as perfect as my rose tinted glasses and childhood memories tell me it is.

It's hilarious to read comments on how awful it was, with the only arguement being a gungan.

The chemistry between Natalie Portman and Hayden Christiansen was godawful, making it an even worse love story than Twilight.

The plot holes were painful in places.

Space chinese being the main baddies, COME ON!

Little kid Anakin blowing up the droid control ship was dumb.

Comedy value battle droids?!?!?

I mean if you are going to have robot killing machines, they should at least be soulless robot killing machines, for a better take on them - see Republic commando.

Jar Jar was the visible face of the prequels, he was the scapegoat, and scapegoats need to die. But he was merely a symptom of bigger issues with the movies.

There are other niggles as well, but if i went for them i'd have to hold the OT to the same standard, and the OT isn't as perfect as my rose tinted glasses and childhood memories tell me it is.

Skipped those awful aprts with rolling on the grass. The same way you can skip all the "han, get your hands off" scenes

Star wars is all about plot holes

Spehhs jews.

May Sue symptoms. Luke's torpedoes made a 90' turn and neatly went inside the RIDICULOUSLY well-placed exhaust port.

Droids in SW are all about comedy. C3PO is all about comedy relief.

^^^^^See C#PO part ^^^^^

There was too much of the gungan. On that everyone agrees.

OT lacked good actors. That's teh problem I see. The only good one was Indiana Jones IN SPACE,

while the PT had two epicly good actors who (due to DERP plot) had not enough screen time.

Bad thing that Lukas had to show how evil palpatine was and had to murder one of the best characters played by one of the most EPIC actors of the Century.

At this point, it is pretty obvious Warpman is a troll.

OT has something that no other trilogy will ever have: it created Star Wars. It defined the Galaxy and the Saga. OT also has shameless retreads in the second Death Star and return to both Tatooine and Dagobah, and the wookiee fight that George wanted being shrunk down literally.

And guess what, George had his wookiee battle again...twice. Once with fish/rabbits and the last with actual (CGI) wookiees! Yay! Way to go George, third time is the charm I guess.

My issue with the prequels (and with time I've actually come around to appreciate these movies much more) is the huge amount of unnecessary changes to the orignal back story and inclusion of characters that mirror other better established characters that are still in the same movies! For example:

Qui Gon is there because Ani and Obj are a lot younger than hey probably should be in episode one. Why can't we have Obi Wan being a knight already and finding a teenage Ani? Qui Gon is superfluous and only serves the purpose of dying to give the first movie a feeling of 'haven't we done this before?', er I mean proper gratis to elevate the story.

Jar jar as comic relief when the droid's were supposed to have that role. I don't mind jar jar, he's just a goofy Shaggy/Maynard G Krebs type hats along for the ride only to later be made the instrument that sends the Galaxy into war. The droid's should have already been together and Ani should not have had any connection to them other than meeting them for the first time and maybe telling C-3po to shut up and maybe team up with R2 a couple times in dogfights but not have a great connection to them. Padme should have owned both from the beginning, or possibly purchased them during the adventure.

Reused Tatooine again, three times! Otherwise all new locations and we get to see some of Kaskyyyk and Alderaan, two important places that ultimately got glossed over and forgotten.

Not nearly as quotable as the OT which I pretty much know by heart. The dialogue ruins what narrative flow we could have.

Yoda not really being Obi's teacher other than as a kindergartener, Leia remembering her mom when she actually died in childbirth, Obi and Ani having a friendship that is mostly them yelling at each other, Ani basically being Darth Vader as soon as he slaughters the sand people and Padme just going along with it. And the completely unbelievable 'love story'...and they cut the best scene with the dinner with her parents because?

These are flawed movies because no one wanted to tell George 'NO'. He had free reign to throw any idea up on the screen and no sense to realize that sometimes not everything is gold, sometimes it's a turd painted gold. The OT had some 'guardians' that helped massage the scripts and rewrite dialogue on set and generally inject a sense of fun and wonder and heart. And in the end hats what the PT lacked. Heart.

I still think the ships and walkers were super cool though!

Summing up: OT is the same sort of DERP PT is.

Either you love that derp or you don't.

Lucasderp™

Okay, that makes sense. You don't have any understanding of film at all.

But you do love saying derp, so that's okay.

Narrative arc, invested acting, chekhov's gun, chemistry, comic timing and a lively conversation of ideas off screen are all ESSENTIAL elements to a great film. PT had none of these things. None.

It's kind of telling that the Tartakovsky shorts had better versions of most of the PT characters and more interesting villains as well as waaaay better fight scenes.

Here comes RotS to ruin General Grievous...

I'm not going to say that the prequels were perfect and I'm not going to say that the original trilogy movies were perfect. I will say that I vastly prefer watching any of these 6 movies to watching any other movie. If you ask me to choose between Jurassic Park, Independence Day, new Marvel movies, or The Phantom Menace, I'll choose The Phantom Menace nearly every time.

The Star Wars movies don't have to be perfect for me to enjoy them more than I enjoy any other movie.

And by the way, emulating Jar Jar's speech patterns is one of the best ways to have a good time.

OT worship is mostly a duckling syndrome.

Worst case of it, actually.

Some people claim to hate PT even without watching it. You know, trendy...

I saw Episode I in theaters when I as 13, as a huge Star Wars nut, the others as they came out. They suck. Sorry to Jake Lloyd, but Anakin was annoying, Obi Wan was boring, Qui Gon and Darth Maul were pointless, midichlorians , and yes, Gungans in general as you point out later. Nevermind the nonsensical plot(who's getting taxed, why is blockading Naboo important, what is the Trade Federation getting out of their deal with Sidious?) and boring Senate scenes, which at the time didn't bother me as much as now.

Then Attack of the Clones gave us the worst love story this side of Twilight, set the stage for a war between robots and clones with zero stakes that I can't care less about, and Yoda, who disdained fighting and didn't bother to train Luke with a lightsaber, bouncing around like a pinball with a lightsaber. Then in the end, RotS introduces yet another throw-away villian, and has Anakin essentially getting tricked into falling to the Dark side rather than being seduced in any way. Anakin was an unlikeable, whiny jerk from the start of AotC and his arc, the centerpiece of the entire prequel trilogy, is completely flat as a result. We're supposed to root for him, not actively dislike him.

How about a prequel story where we meet Anakin as a teenager/young adult ace pilot, the good guy he supposedly is, and not 'Space Jesus', where we get to see rather than be told about his friendship with Obi-Wan, where the Clone Wars have some stakes to them, like say it's the Republic fighting against a mysterious clone army, where maybe the Jedi aren't as numerous as they are in what we got so that them passing into myth and rumor makes some actual sense. Where over the course of the war, as we see Anakin going through his Jedi training, but doubt starts creeping in, but we actually care about his character beyond the fact that he becomes Darth Vader so his fall is actually tragic, rather than something we're just told is tragic.

I don't know. There's a good story buried in the ideas behind the prequels, but what we got certainly isn't. Yes, the OT is pretty simple, but it succeeds in sucking you in to caring about the people involved.

What I always ask myself is, "I wonder what people would think of Yoda these days? A silly puppet with Grover's voice- how un-Star Wars! Completely messes with my sense of reality. Where did my childhood go!?"

Honestly, having just re-watched the movies again this past weekend, puppet Yoda is still a hell of a lot more convincing than the prequels CGI Yoda. Even the original puppet Yoda from the Phantom Menace (yes, he was a puppet in the theatrical release of TPM, he was replaced with CG in the most recent video release, I think it was) doesn't work the way ESB Yoda does. No idea why. Maybe the grittiness of Dagobah helps cover over the puppet-ness, and the cleanliness and sharpness of TPM makes him stand out more?

What I always ask myself is, "I wonder what people would think of Yoda these days? A silly puppet with Grover's voice- how un-Star Wars! Completely messes with my sense of reality. Where did my childhood go!?"

Honestly, having just re-watched the movies again this past weekend, puppet Yoda is still a hell of a lot more convincing than the prequels CGI Yoda. Even the original puppet Yoda from the Phantom Menace (yes, he was a puppet in the theatrical release of TPM, he was replaced with CG in the most recent video release, I think it was) doesn't work the way ESB Yoda does. No idea why. Maybe the grittiness of Dagobah helps cover over the puppet-ness, and the cleanliness and sharpness of TPM makes him stand out more?

I just watched the original The Phantom Menace Yoda, CGI The Phantom Menace Yoda, and The Empire Strikes Back Yoda. In my opinion, the thing that sells Yoda in The Empire Strikes Back is the voice acting. The voice was made to match the puppet and carry the scene. The voice and the different vocal effects (like grunting) are what makes us believe that Yoda is a real, living Jedi Master.

During the prequels, the production crew had the challenge of keeping Yoda true to his first appearance. He needed the same voice and the same speech patterns. He also needed to look like Yoda. However, the voice and the performance don't seem to mesh as well. I can't say why, exactly, but I suspect it's because the voice was made to match the voice from ESB and not to match what was going on in the scene. We end up with a likeness of Yoda, but it doesn't feel like Yoda is on screen.

Personally, I feel that the CGI Yoda is much easier to watch because it can show so much more expression than the puppet. I feel like the puppet works for ESB; if you changed it to CGI, it would look horrendous. But in the prequels, CGI Yoda fits in very nicely and they're able to change the puppet's performance to match the voice.

These are flawed movies because no one wanted to tell George 'NO'. He had free reign to throw any idea up on the screen and no sense to realize that sometimes not everything is gold, sometimes it's a turd painted gold. The OT had some 'guardians' that helped massage the scripts and rewrite dialogue on set and generally inject a sense of fun and wonder and heart. And in the end hats what the PT lacked. Heart.

I still think the ships and walkers were super cool though!

You sir. I applaud you.

You understand how the film industry works.

George Lucas had creative script control and control over performances in "A New Hope." because the studio had little faith in it. The original edit, over seen by Lucas, of the movie was flat, boring and so hard to watch. The studio brought in their own editors who made it more snappy and fast paced. Between them and Lucas' ideas, we got Star Wars and while the acting wasn't the best it was a very fun movie to watch.

Then the hype came and the studio knew what was on the line with "Empire Strikes Back". That's why Lucas got to be the writer but with a Co-writer, a producer amoungst other producers and they gave the director's chair to someone else. This had the least personal Lucas control and it was marvellous (especially the acting, shows what a good director can get from actors)

By "Return of the Jedi" the studios saw dollar signs and thought it best to give Lucas most of the creative control back, but still not the director's chair. We got Ewoks from this, some terrible lines and Lucas' strange version of romance but still pretty good performances and neat over-all story.

Then the PT happened and they said "Well, better let Lucas do everything". And, well... yea.

He did however have hand over fist-wads of cash at that point in which he had a gigantic design and development crew to make some amazing alien races, ships, worlds and costumes. They are very pretty, vapid films.

(Last note) I think Lucas is an inventive writer. After working in the film industry for 5 years, I have come to the conclusion that no writer should have free reign over a script. Because any writers, especially inventive ones, have just as many bad ideas as good. However, writers love their ideas like babies and have trouble hating the bad and loving the good, they just love them all equally. So, that's were you get great pieces like Qui-gon next to a bin piece like Jar Jar.

So, from a film making standpoint: OT was good. PT was bad.

From a Xwing standpoint: OT will be made and NT (new trilogy) will be made. PT can find another game to show itself in, though I think Disney will distance itself from this like it does from every failure movie under it's umbrella.

I always crack up when I see More advanced technology in the prequels than in the Original Trilogy.

"Data Tapes "

It would be neat for them to appear as a pair, since they have jedi abilities and are twins,

- They could complementing each other in the likes of IG-88 does,

or

- Maybe giving themselves bonus when they are at distance 1-2 like one extra dice in offese (jaina) and defense (jacen).

or

- Copy each other's actions as a free actions at distance 1 (ie, jacen gets focus, jaina gets a free focus action)

The counter could be separate them with blockers, stress or ion.

We also need some more jedi-ish abilities in the game besides changing dice results! Like,

jedi mind trick: switch the dial to another of the same speed

trust the force: action: ignore stress inducing this round

Ignoring the whole current discussion, I'd really like some more E-Wing pilots. I don't feel like anyone but Corran gets love (though I'm trying to make Etahn Abaht work).

Adrenaline Rush basically is the same thing as Trust the Force.

It's true, more E-wing pilots would be a good thing.

I'd say named guys for E-wings. cheap EPT aces at PS5 for Defenders.

^nice try Darius this topic has been thread-jacked by the ever rediculous trilogies bashing thread.

I always crack up when I see More advanced technology in the prequels than in the Original Trilogy.

"Data Tapes "

And then they will run out of ships.

We've seen the declarative statements before in many places made by many people.

not really. Before Episode 7 stuff we were reaching the bottom of the barrel, but the Rebels Tv show, Episode 7, and Rogue one(we hope) will give FFG plenty of ships to add into the game.

I could see them totally doing a cheeky hwk wink; because there were contrasting stats they simply made two Hawks in edge, the hwk 290 and 1000.

In the same sense I could see them doing a Jaina and Jacan, and only using the first name for the Ewing pilots if they ever revisit that ship. Non-canon pilots for a non-canon ship.

I don't see much point getting too excited, the writing was stilted then and it is now. Liked rogue squad and large aspects of thawn. The old republic comics and such, otherwise I found fair chunks of it to be dry reading. I've always held a firm belief that taking Star Wars too seriously will always be to the detriment of the fan base.

An idea I have kicking around:

Jaina, PS 9, elite talent, T-70

Pilot ability: defensive version of Turr Phenir that triggers when declared the target of an attack (which could invalidate the attack)

I like to think of "Legends" as a different time line from Canon. The split coming practically come from a question "Did the Vong ever come to the Star Wars galaxy?"

If yes, you follow the Legends story line.

If no, you follow the Canon story line.

Working on this branch of thought, most of the Legends characters in Xwing still make sense in the Canon universe, just they end up leading mostly uneventful lives as Rebel pilots against the Empire and or Remnants of the Empire. As for the Ewing and Kwing as ship designs in Canon, well someone decided to make the Ewing probably sometime between the Episode 6 - 7, everyone decided it was the ugliest thing ever, so they sent it to random Hyperspace coordinates to never be seen again. It landed on Cobalt and they modelled the Viper off of it. The Kwing was more of "The Homer" of the Star Wars universe. The shipyard that designed it soon went bankrupt.

You might even put the cut-off a little earlier:

Did Han and Leia have twins?

Yes -> Vong

No -> proceed as planned.

The pregnancy allowing Fey'lya to build up credit and weaken the government at crucial times. Without the twins he'd not have been in such an unopposed position. That in turn might lead to the Vong invasion being called off, facing a strong unified Republic.