The timing of it. How?

Today I played it like so. Terrorist rolls attack dice. I say Elusiveness, he rerolls a die, then we go to mod dice step. So this way Soonts gets a focus token before rolling defense die.

Worked like a hot ****, but was it legal?

Sounds legit. The Elusiveness forced reroll is effectively taking place during the "Defender modifies Attack Dice" step. And because Soontir has just gained a stress token, his ability would trigger and gain him a focus token for use in the Defender's modify defence dice step.

Yes, it works as advertised.

However, it's typically not considered the best upgrade for Fel, as you can get Push the Limit for just one point more, and ultimately being tankier.

Elusiveness is more often seen on a defensive Ibtisam (paired with a Sensor Jammer).

Ah yes. I've been calling this version of Soontir a "Poor Soonts" build. Defense boost for the glass cannon, and his ability procs. At one point LESS than PTL.

PTL would be sweet but... Meh.

Ah yes. I've been calling this version of Soontir a "Poor Soonts" build. Defense boost for the glass cannon, and his ability procs. At one point LESS than PTL.

PTL would be sweet but... Meh.

Yeah, but you could get PTL on Carnor Jax for the same price, and that's arguably better.

Yeah...

Maybe once I pick up an Ace pack then I'll have all those sweet sweet upgrades. Mmmm.. Sweet sweet upgrades!

Wait.

So when does Elusiveness resolve? During his roll dice step, during his mod step, or during my mod step? Or some other time?

I just don't want to play it one way and later have it revealed that it's not so, and thus be shamed forever.

It goes thusly:

Attacker rolls red dice

Defender modifies red dice (Elusiveness goes here)

Attacker modifies red dice (Target Lock goes here)

Defender rolls green dice

Attacker modifies green dice (Juke goes here)

Defender modifies green dice (Evade token goes here)

TY Funkleton

It goes thusly:

Attacker rolls red dice

Defender modifies red dice (Elusiveness goes here)

Attacker modifies red dice (Target Lock goes here)

Defender rolls green dice

Attacker modifies green dice (Crack Shot goes here)

Defender modifies green dice (Evade token goes here)

Slight correction, Crack Shot is used during the "compare results" step - after all dice have been rolled and modified and tokens spent - FAQ page 10.

Admittedly there was a little back and forth in the rulings before FFG settled on this.

Perfect! Thank you very much. See the specific timing of it makes a huge difference. For both parties, even.

It goes thusly:

Attacker rolls red dice

Defender modifies red dice (Elusiveness goes here)

Attacker modifies red dice (Target Lock goes here)

Defender rolls green dice

Attacker modifies green dice (Juke goes here)

Defender modifies green dice (Evade token goes here)

FTFY

I am assuming that Sensor Jammer goes in the same spot as Elusiveness, no?

If that's the case, then what's the point of SJ if the attacker has a focus?

I am assuming that Sensor Jammer goes in the same spot as Elusiveness, no?

If that's the case, then what's the point of SJ if the attacker has a focus?

Pushes the use of that focus, Which may lead to defensive issues later in that combat round for the ship.

I am assuming that Sensor Jammer goes in the same spot as Elusiveness, no?

If that's the case, then what's the point of SJ if the attacker has a focus?

The subtle advantage of forcing a focus to be used offensively is a large part of the reason this card was overlooked for so long.

Among other things, it also forces your opponent to take a Focus action, even when it would otherwise be more advantageous for them to take another action instead...

I am assuming that Sensor Jammer goes in the same spot as Elusiveness, no?

If that's the case, then what's the point of SJ if the attacker has a focus?

Mostly it gets in the opponent's head. They "had" to focus in the first place instead of whatever else they wanted to do with their action. Now they "have"to use it offensively or miss out on some damage, making it a crappy Marksmanship. Or they can save it, but what if they don't get shot or don't roll any eyeballs?

The timing of it. How?

Today I played it like so. Terrorist rolls attack dice. I say Elusiveness, he rerolls a die, then we go to mod dice step. So this way Soonts gets a focus token before rolling defense die.

Worked like a hot ****, but was it legal?

The timing of it. How?

Today I played it like so. Terrorist rolls attack dice. I say Elusiveness, he rerolls a die, then we go to mod dice step. So this way Soonts gets a focus token before rolling defense die.

Worked like a hot ****, but was it legal?

You are almost always going to be better off using PTL for an Evade token than you will be using Elusiveness. The only advantage that Elusiveness has is that you don't need to take the stress until after you know that you are getting shot at. The downside is there is no guarantee that it will end up being a blank, there's a chance it might turn a crit into a hit, and you have to use it before you see if your defense dice pick that shot to come up with nothing but evades.

Elusiveness may very well be one of the worst upgrades in the game.

I think you are mistaken. If any EPT is as overrated as all that, it's Lone Wolf. You pay a premium to reroll a blank? With a restriction? Bah! I'll take Elu over that any day, especially in an Imp list!

PTL is awesome. I bow before teh mighty PTLs. No, seriously it's a great upgrade. Maybe it will become less popular as stress becomes a bigger part of the meta... But we're here to talk about all the possible interactions between Soontir Fel and Elusiveness, not reiterate well established facts about other popular upgrade cards.

Elusiveness is a great upgrade for 2 points on Soontir, especially if you DON'T HAVE PTL, because it is the most reliable way to trigger Fels ability. it also adds a layer of much needed defense to the ship. Being able to spend your own focus on offense, knowing that you will more than likely gain it back for defense, is a good thing. Also, having this ability means that maybe Soontir doesn't need to Focus, so if you really feel defensive you can take an Evade.

Really though, I'm not proposing that we all start running Interceptors with Elusiveness and burn our PTLs. Just try it out next time you wanna run Soontir Fel for under 30p...

I think you are mistaken. If any EPT is as overrated as all that, it's Lone Wolf. You pay a premium to reroll a blank? With a restriction? Bah! I'll take Elu over that any day, especially in an Imp list!

PTL is awesome. I bow before teh mighty PTLs. No, seriously it's a great upgrade. Maybe it will become less popular as stress becomes a bigger part of the meta... But we're here to talk about all the possible interactions between Soontir Fel and Elusiveness, not reiterate well established facts about other popular upgrade cards.

Elusiveness is a great upgrade for 2 points on Soontir, especially if you DON'T HAVE PTL, because it is the most reliable way to trigger Fels ability. it also adds a layer of much needed defense to the ship. Being able to spend your own focus on offense, knowing that you will more than likely gain it back for defense, is a good thing. Also, having this ability means that maybe Soontir doesn't need to Focus, so if you really feel defensive you can take an Evade.

Really though, I'm not proposing that we all start running Interceptors with Elusiveness and burn our PTLs. Just try it out next time you wanna run Soontir Fel for under 30p...

I'm not following your logic on Lone Wolf being worse than Elusiveness. They cost the same and Lone Wolf allows you to use it when you're stressed where Elusiveness doesn't. So big deal that Elusiveness triggers Fel's ability. There's plenty of other EPTs that do that as well. Even executing a good old red maneuver will do it. And if you're looking for interaction, it's hard to go past PtL on Fel. You can boost or barrel roll, then PtL to focus, gain a stress and another focus token. That's one for attack, and one for defense. And given the Interceptor's good dial, shedding that stress so you can do it all again in the following round is easy.

I understand you may not have a big collection as yet, and that's all part of the game, but there are plenty of better options to put on Fel than Elusiveness. It's not great. The only thing it's got going for it, is the stress it provides to trigger Fel, but that makes you predictable because your opponent knows you have to execute a green maneuver before you can use it again. And it's only defensive, so you only get to use it when you're getting shot at.

Fel is a fragile, but slippery customer. He can get one-shotted just as quick as any other TIE pilot. His greatest asset is his maneuverability. Which is why PtL works for him. Boosting then barrel rolling out of an opponent's arc is far more preferable than gambling on an unlucky attacker's reroll. He's a powerful pilot, but teaming him up with a "just in case I get shot at" EPT isn't the best way to go. Even Lone Wolf is more useful, AND for the same points. He can use it when stressed, and in attack AND defense. Send him out on a flank and it's golden.

Lone Wolf also forces you away from your teammates and could leave your prize Interceptor hanging. Without any way to trigger Fels ability, other than by the dial, I feel like the points are better spent elsewhere. Take for example, Turr Phennir. With VI he is ps9 for 26 points. If you are going to run Soontir Fel without a stress inducer, such as Elu (let's just forget PTL for a moment) then why are you running him at all? For ps9? That can be gained for cheaper and with better results.

Of course, all this debate ceases to happen once that sweet sweet PTL crack hits your lips, so...

That's the whole concept of Lone Wolf. It's designed for the flanking fighter. And Interceptors are good for flanking. Plus they are much harder to kill when they've got room to maneuver. They can run very fast or turn very tight. A speed-1 turn followed by a turning boost is almost a U-turn.

The interaction of Soontir and Elusiveness is not great. It's not even good. It's mediocre at best. With Elusiveness, you've got a 25% chance of getting that reroll to come up with a blank result and a 25% chance of it coming up with a focus. If the attacker has a focus token, then that's a hit result. Any opponent worth his wings is going to attack Soontir/Elusiveness with a focus token just to mitigate that possibility.

Your goal with any pilot should be maximising his ability to get hits on targets, not trying to trigger an ability each round. Least of all, by using an upgrade that only triggers when he gets shot at. And with Soontir at PS9, you're not likely to be able to use his free focus token for offence, and you only get Elusiveness once for defence in a round. If you have more than one enemy ship shooting at him in a round, he's likely to be toasted. Because of his fragility and the fact that he's a high value target for the opponent, you're better off trying to maximise the damage you can do with him while you've got him on the table.

I got the PTLcrack....

Elu-what?

I think I may be using a Rebel mindset here and this is what is causing the schism. I'm looking at Soonts and thinking "How can I synergize with this?" when really that's just not viable, he should be on the board to do damage. I suppose my thinking is that he has 3 reds already, why not try to give him some defense? Admittedly Elu isn't the best option, but I prefer an EPT (in the PTL-less void of rookiedom) that at least clicks with a pilots ability.

Also, I realize now that this isn't the place to talk about the viability of Elusiveness on Soontir either! We already discussed the possible rules interactions, and I got the PTLcrack now so...

Soonit is a ship made for PTL

With a pilot made for the ship

and pilot ability made for PTL

???

Take PTL and don't ask derp questions

So I have to ask, what's the point of your post Warpman? Was it a "derp" question to ask how Elusiveness and Soontir worked together? I'd think it would be rather silly to play a combo that you weren't sure how it worked. I would look even dumber than a snarky forum poster if I had played that combo wrong and then been called out for it!

As for the PTL? See my above post! Lol!

It wasn't a derp question at all. But your insistence on how good Soontir and Elusiveness was over Soontir/PtL probably got a few raised eyebrows.

Oh, if it seemed like I was claiming Elu over PTL then I'm sorry. That would just be silly.

Though, in the abscence of that card... i'd still rather run something that triggers Soonts or just go with Turrph and VI for a PS9 squint. Now that I have the PTL though, I can just slap that on Soonts and run him and Turrph together! Just like in the old days! Huzzah!