Just got me a Darth Vader Expansi... Erm uh, a Tie Advanced Expansion, and I'm wondering how I can utilize the Sith Lord with my current ships. I could just plug him into a swarm but I feel like Vader doesn't fly with goons.

Anyways, expansions I own.

1x Old Core

1x New Core

1x Bomber

1x Interceptor

1x Darth V... Tie Advanced

1x Interceptor (still shipping)

For cards I also own the Y-Wing, HwK, and Outrider.

Been thinking of some kind of dual squint list with Swarm Tactics boosting everyone to ps9 and then a blocker.

What do y'all think? Vader is pretty much the centre piece of my Imp collection now, even got painted all special, so he is a must for this list.

first thing to do is look up "X-wing miniatures imperial raider expansion wiki" and then print out the Tie/x1 and Advanced Targeting computer cards

The Tie Advance was literally the most useless ship in the game when it was first launched back in Wave 1, and only recently did FFG fix it by introducing some much needed power packaged in the Raider epic expansion. It is not worth using without the Tie/x1 title and the system upgrade it lets you take

you can proxy the cards at any event that isn't a Store Championship and up (Regional tournament, Nationals, Worlds etc.) unless you're playing with a bunch of doochy ponces

The Imperial Raider also comes with 4 New Advance Pilots (not Marek Steele or Darth Vader), but they're not necessary to your Tie Advance experience. Only the Tie/x1 title and Advanced Targeting Computer are essential for your enjoyment of Darth Vader ("I have you now!")

Vader with Tie/x1 and Advanced Targeting Computer + junk is pretty **** powerful and is the most popular Advance out there

Personally, though, I think the Tempest Squadron with Accuracy Corrector is far too underappreciated. It is, however, to be fair, not Vader.

See I love the idea of getting a 5 point upgrade for 1 point but...

Isn't that how everyone runs the big guy? You take that title and suddenly you have 1 action and a mandatory TL. Not arguing the efficiency of that build but... Doesn't it make you just another predictable target?

I mean, come on. Everybody runs Vader that way, I think being able to choose both your actions is a pretty big deal. Put the title on and you're basically giving up an action. I mean yeah, you got a nice TL trick, but I think it's just that, a trick. Guaranteed crit with a TL? Well darn, that's pretty good but all day? Vader does well enough as is.

"Mandatory TL" here is really up to the player's judgement. If you feel like they're trying to block/shoot Vader down that round then you can simply play defensively by opting not to TL and do roll/boost(EU)/focus/evade instead. Remember ATC is an option, not something you have to do at every opportunity by default.

If ATC is not your cup of tea, then switching to Accuracy Correctors is a viable option too though IMO it's best reserved for the generic pilots. You can also try Sensor Jammer to make Vader super elusive at the cost of firepower.

I ran Vader today with Advanced Targeting Computer with Whisper and Omega Ace as his wingmen. It did well (got second) and while it's true that ATC does limit his actions at times, it's still really nice to have that extra crit at opportune times.

I've found that most of the time he is better off doing a Focus/Evade for sure, maybe even a barrel roll now and then too to protect himself. But when he has nobody or maybe just one attack on him in a round, that's when you grab that TL. You kind of have to plan ahead with it though, and that might not be for everyone. I also had Predator on him which helped.

Before today I ran him a few times with Accuracy Corrector and I like this option too. It doesn't hit as hard, but he's still a pretty big nuisance when he just Focus/Evades and rolls two hits all the time.

See I knew that wasnt just me being stubborn. ATC is great, but 100% essential? No. Sure I wish Vader was 1 or 2 points cheaper but then he'd be too cheap wouldn't he? Two actions for free? If Vader was more like PTL and gained a stress then okay sure, he is overcosted. But remember this is the top dog in a faction whose ships are notoriously good at exploding. Vaders first on screen sortie ends with him spiralling off into the black.

Again, I really cannot argue against the worth of ATC and x1 on Vader, or any other adv pilot, but I think that to blindly adhere to dogma is just silly. And besides, I don't have $80.

If I did? I'd probably go with AC. Guaranteed 2 hits? Yup, I'll take that.

I ran Vader with this tonight...

Vader

-Squad Leader (2)

-Prockets (3)

-Experimental Interface (3)

I don't have some of the "usual" upgrades that are run with Vader, but I thought this worked fairly well. I was able to use Vader's two actions, then give an extra action to somebody else flying nearby.

That's actually surprisingly good. Sure he becomes a two step Nancy when stressed, but that just comes down to timing. When to use EI and when not to.

See I was thinking Adrenaline Rush would be a great poor man's Vader solution. You're going to K turn right?

I guess it largely comes down to what one wants out of Vader. Needless to say his cost often exceeds a third of ones list, which is quite heavy for a 2 attack ship that isn't necessarily duriable, though one could run him more passively in an ace filled deck.

That being said, I only really see accuacy corrector being competitive for the system slot for advanced targeting. Being able to automatically hit for two all the time means that vaders defensive capabilities are explored to their full without making him fairly inert in attack. Pretty good considering the upgrade is basically free. Otherwise he just lacks too few teeth for ultimately one of the more expensive fighter pilots in this game. The ac is probably the best compromise.

Also, I would recommend exploring eBay and other secondary markets, the raider isn't for everyone thus if you are never going to buy it, one can get hold of some of the pilot cards and titles online.

That's actually surprisingly good. Sure he becomes a two step Nancy when stressed, but that just comes down to timing. When to use EI and when not to.

See I was thinking Adrenaline Rush would be a great poor man's Vader solution. You're going to K turn right?

Not wanting to get a Raider is understandable. Its not for everybody. Unfortunately, if you want to run TIE advanced 'competitively', the x-1 title is essential. However, of all the advanced pilots, Vader was the only one pre-Raider release that was borderline useful because his ability is just so good. In fact, WITH the title, he becomes borderline OP. The only thing keeping him in check is the fact that he can't take autothrusters.

The beauty of Vader is that it really doesn't matter what Elite talent you put on him. He will be useful no matter how you want to run him. And in a less competitive environment, he does just fine without the title, kitted out however you please.

In a tournament setting though, I think there is something to be said for getting maximum combat effectiveness out of a ship if you want to place high; and X-1 title + Advanced Targeting Computer achieves that like no other system choice on Vader. Its the reality based on numerous play experiences. If you don't want to run Vader that way, of course you can do whatever you like, and you can even be successful if you build a Vader that has good synergies with the rest of your list. It just depends what you are looking for in a ship. If you WANT Vader to kill stuff dead as efficiently as possible, then ATC is the way to go. Its not really a question of following some internet 'dogma' or whatever you want to think of it as. Its simply the truth: accuracy corrector gives you 2 hits. ATC gives you the potential of 3 or even 4 damage per turn. 1 being guaranteed crit. And 3 or 4 is bigger than 2. You might argue that its not 100% 3 or 4 damage, and I don't know the exact odds (they vary of course depending on tokens, elite talents, etc), but having used him many times, I have scored 3 or 4 damage with him multiple times in every single game I've played with him (dozens at this point, since getting the raider in August). It has to be somewhere in the 80% range, because its definitely more than 66%, but I can't say exactly.

I would not even consider accuracy corrector on him anymore, although I have tried it a few times. In fact, my first build using him was Outmanoeuvre, accuracy corrector, cluster missiles and engine upgrade. Not bad at all, but more situationally effective and simply does not deal the amount of damage that I could get with my more preffered build: ATC, lone wolf & engine (sometimes add proton rockets for funsies).

Also, ATC does not really mess up his action economy, because actions are there to improve either offensive punch or defensive longevity, and that extra crit gives Vader a substantial firepower boost: he goes from a 'measly' 2 attack ship to being on par in average damage potential to a phantom----BIG difference.

And as for grabbing target locks, its not hard at PS 9. He usually picks one up at R3 on the approach and then takes another token (focus or even evade to use on defense). Next turn he either kites or moves in for a truly punishing shot, typically grabbing focus + evade, or maybe a movement action for better positioning as situation demands. After that, he can either turn around/k-turn to continue on the same target, or if its dead, he has to spend a turn getting into position to attack a new target anyway, and otherwise you are likely to not need both actions at this point, so you've got the luxury to pick up a target lock. Rinse and repeat more or less...

So yeah, don't feel like you NEED ATC to run Vader, because its not ESSENTIAL. He can be successful in other roles besides being your heaviest hitter. But if you do find your Vader doesn't punch in his weight class, well, you will at least know why

That was very well put blade!

I guess I can see your point. I have faced an optimal Vader before, but never flown him so I only know half the story really.

Here, leta try this out. I may be cross posting about this a bit but oh well. Thus is the list I used the other day featuring yours truly.

Vader + Adrenaline Rush

Soontir + Elusiveness

Mauler + Marksmanship

Dark Curse

Comes out to 95 points, because screw not having initiative! I think it's pretty straightforward. I mean I could drop Curse and go with Beast, free up some points for future upgrades and still have a healthy init bid. I find Curse is kind of a mixed blessing, yeah he is tough to hit, but then people want to shoot at other stuff. If he and Mauler are side by each, poor Mithel gets it every time. So he is usually an end game player, but he makes a shaky wingman being nothing more than an up jumped Tie pilot.

So how is that for Vader and Pals? Its all I got so far that seems to make sense. I mean what else do you put on Soontir and Vader at this point? I guess I better get trading...

That's actually surprisingly good. Sure he becomes a two step Nancy when stressed, but that just comes down to timing. When to use EI and when not to.

See I was thinking Adrenaline Rush would be a great poor man's Vader solution. You're going to K turn right?

Not wanting to get a Raider is understandable. Its not for everybody. Unfortunately, if you want to run TIE advanced 'competitively', the x-1 title is essential. However, of all the advanced pilots, Vader was the only one pre-Raider release that was borderline useful because his ability is just so good. In fact, WITH the title, he becomes borderline OP. The only thing keeping him in check is the fact that he can't take autothrusters.

The beauty of Vader is that it really doesn't matter what Elite talent you put on him. He will be useful no matter how you want to run him. And in a less competitive environment, he does just fine without the title, kitted out however you please.

In a tournament setting though, I think there is something to be said for getting maximum combat effectiveness out of a ship if you want to place high; and X-1 title + Advanced Targeting Computer achieves that like no other system choice on Vader. Its the reality based on numerous play experiences. If you don't want to run Vader that way, of course you can do whatever you like, and you can even be successful if you build a Vader that has good synergies with the rest of your list. It just depends what you are looking for in a ship. If you WANT Vader to kill stuff dead as efficiently as possible, then ATC is the way to go. Its not really a question of following some internet 'dogma' or whatever you want to think of it as. Its simply the truth: accuracy corrector gives you 2 hits. ATC gives you the potential of 3 or even 4 damage per turn. 1 being guaranteed crit. And 3 or 4 is bigger than 2. You might argue that its not 100% 3 or 4 damage, and I don't know the exact odds (they vary of course depending on tokens, elite talents, etc), but having used him many times, I have scored 3 or 4 damage with him multiple times in every single game I've played with him (dozens at this point, since getting the raider in August). It has to be somewhere in the 80% range, because its definitely more than 66%, but I can't say exactly.

I would not even consider accuracy corrector on him anymore, although I have tried it a few times. In fact, my first build using him was Outmanoeuvre, accuracy corrector, cluster missiles and engine upgrade. Not bad at all, but more situationally effective and simply does not deal the amount of damage that I could get with my more preffered build: ATC, lone wolf & engine (sometimes add proton rockets for funsies).

Also, ATC does not really mess up his action economy, because actions are there to improve either offensive punch or defensive longevity, and that extra crit gives Vader a substantial firepower boost: he goes from a 'measly' 2 attack ship to being on par in average damage potential to a phantom----BIG difference.

And as for grabbing target locks, its not hard at PS 9. He usually picks one up at R3 on the approach and then takes another token (focus or even evade to use on defense). Next turn he either kites or moves in for a truly punishing shot, typically grabbing focus + evade, or maybe a movement action for better positioning as situation demands. After that, he can either turn around/k-turn to continue on the same target, or if its dead, he has to spend a turn getting into position to attack a new target anyway, and otherwise you are likely to not need both actions at this point, so you've got the luxury to pick up a target lock. Rinse and repeat more or less...

So yeah, don't feel like you NEED ATC to run Vader, because its not ESSENTIAL. He can be successful in other roles besides being your heaviest hitter. But if you do find your Vader doesn't punch in his weight class, well, you will at least know why

The thing with AC though is doing two hits is the absolute worst case scenario. He still can land three hits or a hit-crit on occasion. So technically it's not 2 vs. 3-4, it's 2-3 vs. 3-4.

That isn't a huge jump, and it also gives him the flexibility of doing k-turns and still having a guaranteed 2 hits, while with ATC he could possibly whiff.

Hey, that's right. AC says "you may". So you still get to take a crack at it first.

The thing with AC though is doing two hits is the absolute worst case scenario. He still can land three hits or a hit-crit on occasion. So technically it's not 2 vs. 3-4, it's 2-3 vs. 3-4.

That isn't a huge jump, and it also gives him the flexibility of doing k-turns and still having a guaranteed 2 hits, while with ATC he could possibly whiff.

What you say about AC is technically true. 2 hits IS the worse case scenario.

ATC, the worse case scenario is only 1 crit because the rest of your dice blanked out. So with AC, its 2 (sometimes 3) vs anywhere between 1 and 4. But here's the rub: with ATC, I have lone wolf (or predator even). So the chances of rolling 'only' 1 crit are incredibly small (with a focus token thrown in for good measure). In fact, the odds of 3 or even 4 are quite good. Yes, its at least 3 or 4 points more expensive, but those points are being well spent.

You see, 1 extra damage (a crit no less) IS a big deal. Its Huge. Its the same thing with the 'mangler' vs heavy laser cannon debate. People think 'mangler' is just as good because even though its 1 less die, you still can deal 2 or 3 damage (and one is a crit). But HLC can and does deal 4 damage. Frequently. And every point of damage matters in this game. A LOT. Simply because killing enemy ships faster wins games.

And the other thing to consider: damage tends to matter more the higher your Pilot Skill is, because of the potential to kill a ship before it shoots. So on Vader, that extra crit over and above what Accuracy Corrector can do gives a great shot at taking out a ship before it fires (or even if the ship isn't destroyed, there's things like blinded pilot or weapon's failure that's almost just as good).

Obviously, there isn't a 'point value' for 1 extra damage, but I would value it at least 5 - 7 points (I mean, if there was a card that let you just deal 1 damage to an enemy ship automatically every turn, it would have to be worth at least that much if not more). And in a way, that's what ATC does for Vader most of the time as compared to accuracy corrector (maybe not every single turn, but definitely more than half of the turns when he shoots). So being able to purchase that boost in firepower for only 1 point? (technically 3 or 4 points more than AC because of the addition of Lone Wolf/Predator). Either way, its a steal, imho.

sure, Vader doesn't need ATC specifically

but unless you like handicapping yourself for no reason, you do need Tie/x1

this isn't blind dogma, the pre-fix Tie Advance is mathematically shown to be the worst possible investment in the game

Vader does not change this. He is, at best, a sh*tty Jake Farrel without the Tie/x1 title. No amount of special snow-flake points are going to change this fact.

furthermore, there is no reason to drop $80 on the raider. Just proxy the card, or ask one of your local group if you can borrow it for a game/tournament

Hell, I don't own the raider and I'm running 3 Accuracy Corrector Tempests with zero issue in NYC (the city of assholes)