Watched Gowtah and Onca have fun with Rieekan and Fire Lanes just a few minutes ago, and found an interesting rule conundrum.

When a ship in a Rieekan fleet is destroyed at the End of the Status Phase, that is effectively the End of the Round as well. As such, both the Fire Lanes "End of Round" scoring takes effect, and the "End of Status Phase" destruction of a ship. Going to tiebreakers, if the First Player is Rieekan, his ship is destroyed, then the 2nd player's objective takes effect, but if the Second Player is Rieekan, he can chose which order the effects fire off in, letting his ship contribute to Fire Lanes scoring effect.

I've sent a letter to FFG for clarification on this, and they both agreed to a roll off to see how Rieekan would actually work.

Specific Rules affected by this ruling:

Effects and Timing

• If two or more of a player’s effects have the same timing, that player can resolve those effects in any order.

• If both players have effects with the same timing, the first player resolves all of his effects with that timing first.

Round

A single game round consists of four phases resolved in the following order: Command Phase, Ship Phase, Squadron Phase, and Status Phase.

Round tokens are used to track the current round of the game; the round number is equal to the highest number on the round tokens placed next to the play area. The round token marked “1” is placed next to the play area during setup, and the next highest round token is placed during each Status Phase.

Status Phase

During this phase, the players ready all of their exhausted defense tokens by flipping them to their readied side. They also ready all of their exhausted upgrade cards by rotating them 90° counterclockwise. Then, the first player flips the initiative token to its other side.

• At the end of this phase, the first player places the round token with the next highest number to the side of the play area to indicate the number of the next round.

Hmm, intereasting conundrum...

This was discussed in a couple of earlier threads. There are other interactions with Rieekan that require some serious FAQing.

He's such a CILF.

EDIT : Move along, nothing to see here...

It's not the last ship that is being destroyed though. It's just a single ship trying to participate in End Of Round Victory Token fun such as Fire Lanes / Contested Outpost.

It's not the last ship that is being destroyed though. It's just a single ship trying to participate in End Of Round Victory Token fun such as Fire Lanes / Contested Outpost.

Ah, well then, don't mind me, I'm clearly trying to have a different discussion!

He's such a CILF.

I'd FAQ him so hard.

I hope they use this as an opportunity to clarify and explain the rules on timing and effects rather than invent something that gets half way. It could be tempting just to say 15xp hardly matters and give that to the ship before taking it off.

Is it not obvious that the end of the status phase happens before the end of the round... Like closing off of brackets in an excel formula?

(Round=(Command Phase)(Ship Phase)(Squadron Phase)(Status Phase(Rieekan Ship dies))End of round effects)

8)

Is it not obvious that the end of the status phase happens before the end of the round... Like closing off of brackets in an excel formula?

(Round=(Command Phase)(Ship Phase)(Squadron Phase)(Status Phase(Rieekan Ship dies))End of round effects)

8)

Is it not obvious that the end of the status phase happens before the end of the round... Like closing off of brackets in an excel formula?

(Round=(Command Phase)(Ship Phase)(Squadron Phase)(Status Phase(Rieekan Ship dies))End of round effects)

8)

well the problem is the stasis phase IS THE END of the round so there is a chance they happen at the SAME time

THAT would make things easier, then its just a matter of "Who is second player / Who has Initiative" ?

Is it not obvious that the end of the status phase happens before the end of the round... Like closing off of brackets in an excel formula?

(Round=(Command Phase)(Ship Phase)(Squadron Phase)(Status Phase(Rieekan Ship dies))End of round effects)

8)

well the problem is the stasis phase IS THE END of the round so there is a chance they happen at the SAME time

THAT would make things easier, then its just a matter of "Who is second player / Who has Initiative" ?

It would be equally easy whichever way the ruling goes.

My guess is that "at the end of the round" happens after the status phase, because that's how most games I've played seem to go, but we'll find out. Hopefully it'll be in Rieekan's voluminous FAQ.

Is it not obvious that the end of the status phase happens before the end of the round... Like closing off of brackets in an excel formula?

(Round=(Command Phase)(Ship Phase)(Squadron Phase)(Status Phase(Rieekan Ship dies))End of round effects)

8)

well the problem is the stasis phase IS THE END of the round so there is a chance they happen at the SAME time

The Status Phase is the last phase of the round. The round cannot end until the phase had ended. Once the Status Phase is complete then the round is can be completed.

But I appreciate it might not be as clear cut to many folks thus requires FFG input.

As an aside FFG does tend to treat both the end of the last phase and the end of the turn as the same point. Similarly beginning of the first phase and start of turn.

Poor design in that case. Don't specify two events that should be the same event.

I don't think we technically know that they are the same yet.

But it would be poor form if they are the same.

No email response yet.

I emailed them about this a few weeks ago.

The response I received was that they were getting a LOT of questions about Rieekan, and would be addressing all of them with a blanket ruling, likely in FAQ form, and to keep my eyes out for that.

Looks like the answers are starting to trickle out, and they're not what I thought they'd be.

After playing against Rieekan a few times.... he's kind of a big load of bull.

Hello, Tvayumat

Thank you for your patience. In response to your questions:

Rules Question:

I had a question regarding the "General Rieekan" commander card previewed in the latest MC30 preview article. It's been suggested that he would allow a ship to repair itself back from destroyed status after it's already received it's hull value in damage cards. Can you clarify this? Does Rieekan allow for "ship necromancy", or does the destroyed status stick even if a ship is repaired? Thanks for your time!

The destroyed status is simply delayed. At the end of the Status Phase, the ship is now treated as destroyed and it is removed from the play area regardless of how many damage cards it now has.

Rules Question:

There is some confusion regarding how General Rieekan (Featured in the latest Armada preview article) interacts with game end conditions. Firstly, if the ship that Rieekan is a part of is destroyed, does he activate to keep that ship on the board until the status phase? If he does, how does this interact with the win condition? The RRG states that a game ends immediately upon the destruction of a player's final ship (Which occurs regardless of whether Rieekan activates) BUT the actual win condition states "The player with one or more remaining ships in the play area is the winner". Rieekan could potentially allow for all your ships to be destroyed, but one to remain in the play area, so does the game end upon the destruction of the ship like the RRG says, or does the game end after the Status phase when the ship is removed from play?

Rieekan’s ability applies to his own flagship, even if his flagship is the last ship of his fleet in the play area. If Rieekan and the remainder of his fleet are destroyed in the same round, the game continues until the end of the current game round. This ensures that ships protected by Rieekan will still be factored into his opponent’s score, and it also reflects a change in the upcoming tournament rules.

Pretty much exactly what I expected.

Yes. But... "a change in the upcoming tournament rules"?

Yes. But... "a change in the upcoming tournament rules"?

So that Rieekan's death still counts. If I kill your last ship, Rieekan, and then you kill my last ship before the status phase the game will continue until the status phase so that I can get all your points.

Which also means that squadrons will get another round of attacks (which has been the balance of a few games I've played.)

I wonder if the game will always end after the status phase now, or only with Rieekan on the board.

Wouldn't that be a change to the game rules (RRG) rather than the tournament rules, though? As I recall, the tournament rules document does not regulate the end conditions of an individual game, except as relates to time limits and conceding.

EDIT: Never mind, I just looked at the actual document , which has a whole section on End of Match. I stand corrected

Phew, I was about to assume I was wrong, lol.

Plus tournament points. When I first read the answer that was the only change that came to mind (I had actually missed the game end change at first, so I'm very glad your question prompted a second reading.)