I've been looking around 'google' and the forums and it was hard to hunt down the correct answer for this:

So committing force dice costs an action.

I was looking at sense and the first control shows it upgrades attacks made on you once if you commit. 1 action to commit and now you upgrade attacks once against you. So you can still maneuver. I'm assuming every attack against you is upgraded once. So it is a pure defense type action to do this.

Further down the tree control further in this tree says now an offensive action you make is upgraded. But...if it takes an action to trigger this tier of control...how can I do this? It takes an action to make an offensive attack and an action to trigger the ongoing effect of this tier level of control?

I did get my answer on if 'committing a force dice' is an action-- as it states in the book that yes it is an action. So you can not have two actions how can I even trigger the highest tier of control?

I am not 100% sure, and it would require me to get up to reach my EotE book to verify (a whole 30 seconds, plus going up the stairs!), but I do not think your initial premise is right. It does NOT cost an action to commit a Light Side marker/point to upgrade an action.

However, it does cost an action to use the Force die(ce) in order to, for example, use a Force power.

Using a Force Die(ce) to use a Force power does not cost you a Light Side marker, unless you want to use the Dark Side, which is the equivalent of "upgrading" a skill roll, but for Force Powers.

Do I make sense?

Committing the Force die does take an action, you do it in the first turn, then it stays committed for as long as you want, in effect for every turn thereafter. It stays active for as long as you like, certainly to the end of the "structured time", and longer if the GM allows. You don't have to spend an action to commit every turn...the key word being "commit"...that Force die is unavailable, and the PC's FR rating is lowered, for the duration of the Commit.

So if you have the offensive action control upgrade, you can upgrade 1 attack per turn for as long as the die is committed.

Edit, example:

The PC has FR2. The party is ambushed, and in turn 1 the PC spends an action to Commit a Force die to upgrade one offensive action per turn. His effective FR is now 1 (which means if he wants to use the Force, he can only roll one die). He can still spend Maneuvers in turn 1 as normal, drawing his lightsaber and spending strain to move to engage.

In turns 2 and 3 he attacks a squad of stormtroopers normally, upgrading his dice pool once each turn because of the Committed Force die. He takes most of them out.

In turn 4 he decides to bring a load of barrels down on the remaining stormtroopers using Move. He wants to pull as many barrels as possible, so he'll need an extra pip to trigger the Magnitude upgrade on top of the basic power...he needs 2 pips total. That's iffy with only FR1, so to make sure he gets at least 2 pips, he un-commits his Force die (this is just an incidental), his FR is now 2 again, he rolls both dice, gets 3 pips (2 white, 1 black) and uses two pips to bring the barrels down.

Ok-- so basically turn one would be the action to commit and all continuous turns as long as I continue to commit (no action at this point) I will have the benifit of the force dice.

So example: turn one bad guy attacks, so I use one action to use sense control tier 1 to upgrade attacks made against me. I use a manuever to engage the bad guy. Turn two I choose to commit the force dice to continue the effect of control tier 1 of sense (no action). Now I can actually fight and gain benifit of the good defense.

Example 2: i use control sense last tier to upgrade my offense ability (one action) and engage for my manuever. Turn I commit the force dice (no action). Now all my attacks are upgraded. I can continue to wade through bad guys as long as I commit continuously afterwards.

Example 2: i use control sense last tier to upgrade my offense ability (one action) and engage for my manuever.

This is correct, it takes an action to commit.

Turn I commit the force dice (no action).... commit continuously afterwards

Not sure what that means. You don't "commit continuously". Once it's committed you don't have to do anything, it just stays that way until you stop. That's what the word "commit" means. Like if you're married you're committed...you don't "commit continuously" each day...well, maybe some people do

That's where I see that it says each turn commit. So doesn't that mean each turn I just make the 'commit' action?

By the way when you get to the control upgrade attacks you actually upgrade your attacks twice as you already have the strength upgrade.

A committed die stays committed to you uncommit it with an incidental.

Ok so once used it stays in play after first initial action to use

yes

Ok cool thanks for clarification!

I was confused wondering how can I do anything offensive if I continuously have to make an action to commit

An additional question for an old thread, specific to sense: if I have the whole left side of the tree and FR2, can I commit both dice (defense and offense) in one action? Or do I need to take two separate actions in two separate turns to commit both dice?

As far as I understand it, two separate actions.

An additional question for an old thread, specific to sense: if I have the whole left side of the tree and FR2, can I commit both dice (defense and offense) in one action? Or do I need to take two separate actions in two separate turns to commit both dice?

Since it's all in the one power I'd probably just let you burn a single Action to do it. It's worth keeping in mind while the system frowns on leaving Force dice committed across multiple encounters, if you said as you enter the evil villain's lair you want to go ahead and commit the dice up front before the initiative dice get rolled as you are reaching out with the Force to perceive danger and opportunity I'd allow that.

Thank you both! I've been going back and forth on what I'd allow in my game, and how I'd hope it would work if I got to play. Two actions seems correct, but that's a lot of actions in an encounter to get the benefits of something you've sunk 50xp into. I appreciate the input - it helps the debate!

Each commit effect requires "turned on" individually, so to commit both dice on the defense and offense upgrades requires 2 actions.

Also to further clarify , uncommitting the force dice does indeed occur as an incidental, but importantly this only occurs at the end of your own turn. This is very important as if it occurred at any other time you could go straight from having the dice committed to using a full blown force power in the same turn. If you didn't plan ahead and have force dice committed going into your turn, you won't be able to use them all for your force power until the following turn. Similarly you won't benefit from many abilities and talents until your next turn because they would still be committed during your own turn (not so much of a problem for someone with FR 4, but for someone with FR1 or 2 , it leaves them having to plan ahead)

I do get the restriction on de-committing dice only at the end of your turn. That presents an interesting choice for someone with diverse uses for force dice.

Have you played with someone who has had both upgrades for sense? Does the two action cost feel right for the level of benefit and/or thematically appropriate (i.e. I am sensing for threats from my opponents [turn], now I'm sensing for openings in my opponents' defenses [turn], now I attack)? I understand that it's a powerful ability set, I'm just running down some thoughts so I can make an informed decision when it comes up in game. Would it feel broken or set a bad precedent (unintended consequences) to allow someone to commit both dice on a turn for a maneuver and/or strain cost? edit: or a discipline check for that matter, with its own consequences?

Id keep it at least an Action. Once it's in place it's there the whole encounter for no cost other than the FD. Side Step for example does apply to all attacks, but it's a Maneuver and Strain, plus you have to keep popping it during an encounter. Sense is only the one attack, but you aren't billed anything, and you can turn it on prior.

Basically the fully upgraded power allows you to upgrade up to two outgoing attacks per round (as per duration upgrade) he upgrades them twice (as per strength upgrade) , he may also upgrade the difficulty of up to two attacks against him (as per duration upgrade) he upgrades them twice (as per strength upgrade). Is it powerful, yes, but they are not any more powerful than 2 ranks of dodge and 2 ranks of frenzied attack, only force fuelled instead of strain fuelled. To use both requires an FR of 2 which requires a minimum investment of 75 earned XP in a specialisation and 50 XP in a force power, so 125 xp spent and 2 actions to get it up and running. The actions to activate act as a balance to this. As you wouldn't be able to attack till turn 3.

The one rule to keep in mind about committed force dice that people often forget is that they can only be un-committed at the end of your turn, meaning there is always one round of cooldown period between reclaiming the dice and being able to use them.

I do get the restriction on de-committing dice only at the end of your turn. That presents an interesting choice for someone with diverse uses for force dice.

Have you played with someone who has had both upgrades for sense? Does the two action cost feel right for the level of benefit and/or thematically appropriate (i.e. I am sensing for threats from my opponents [turn], now I'm sensing for openings in my opponents' defenses [turn], now I attack)? I understand that it's a powerful ability set, I'm just running down some thoughts so I can make an informed decision when it comes up in game. Would it feel broken or set a bad precedent (unintended consequences) to allow someone to commit both dice on a turn for a maneuver and/or strain cost? edit: or a discipline check for that matter, with its own consequences?

Given how much of a boost that last Control Upgrade can provide (upgrade the pool of two combat checks twice), having it require two separate actions is a fairly necessary balancing factor, since the upgrade can effectively provide two skill ranks to a combat skill the Force user isn't trained in, making them a very capable combatant no matter the weapon type.

Also, don't forget that if you're able to spot a potential fight before it starts occurring, there's nothing stopping you from committing those Force dice before dice are rolled for initiative. Yeah, you might be rolling Cool instead of Vigilance (depending on the GM), but it's at least one less action you have to spend in combat getting your PC's Force mojo up and running, especially since most combats tend to conclude by the 3rd round.

Again, all, thanks! These thoughts are sincerely appreciated!