Juke + Opportunist = BFFs

By blade_mercurial, in X-Wing

I mention it because I haven't seen anyone else talking about it. I remember back when Imperial Aces first came out and everyone was brainstorming ways to use Opportunist in an imperial list. Alas, not much came of it...until now!

Behold!

Vader w/ x-1 title, ATC, juke & engine = 36

3 Omegas w/ opportunist = 21 x 3

99

Alright, its not the most awesome list ever, but certainly can hit hard. A lot better than what imperials could previously do with Opportunist!

Or this is dastardly:

Howlrunner w/ Juke = 20

2 omegas w/ comm relay & opportunist = 24 x 2

2 black squad pilots w/ Juke = 16 x 2

100

One might at first glance think it better to give Juke to the comm relay toting Omegas, but you always want your hardest hitters to be the most durable (not to mention, Omegas clear stress better). If the BSPs had opportunist instead, they would be the opponent's obvious first target...

Anyway, food for thought for all you Imps out there!

So the synergy between Juke and Opportunist is that ships that have to defend against Juke are more likely to have spent whatever green tokens they had by the time that the ships with Opportunist attack?

The Omegas seem like a good home for it since they have a dial that's good for ditching the stress from using Opportunist.

One might at first glance think it better to give Juke to the comm relay toting Omegas, but you always want your hardest hitters to be the most durable (not to mention, Omegas clear stress better). If the BSPs had opportunist instead, they would be the opponent's obvious first target...

You seem to mean why its better to give Opportunist to Omegas than to Blacks. But why give opportunist to anyone? If the assumption is that enemy doesn't have tokens, isn't Juke as good?

Opportunist vs Juke comm relay ship:
1) If enemy has focus, Juke is better. It can strip one, Opportunist can't be used.
2) If enemy has evade, Juke is hugely better.
3) If enemy doesn't have tokens and you have stress, Juke is better.
4) If enemy hasn't got tokens & you are free of stress & don't have any tokens except evade: Opportunist is going to give 4/8 extra damage, Juke about 3/8*(opponents agility) max 1.
So after a bit thinking I think that Opportunist is better, if you can use it &:
1) Opponent has agility 0-1
2) Opponent has agility 2 and you have focus / TL
3) Opponent has agility 3 and you have focus + TL
Actually all 3 cases are still quite close (1st one, if opponents agility is 1). And you pay 2pt more & get stress with every use.

I think Riku pretty much sums up my point to of view. I think there's one real possibility for Opportunist in the FO pilots is Omega Ace. Even then it's not great.

For a rebel list: Wes Janson, Corran Horn w. Juke, Keyan Farlander w. Opportunist....

So after a bit thinking I think that Opportunist is better, if you can use it &:

1) Opponent has agility 0-1

2) Opponent has agility 2 and you have focus / TL

3) Opponent has agility 3 and you have focus + TL

Actually all 3 cases are still quite close (1st one, if opponents agility is 1). And you pay 2pt more & get stress with every use.

Having practiced a few times on VASSAL with 3 Jukes & a Jerk:

Jax w/ PTL, royal, autos & hull = 34

3 omegas w/ comm relay & juke = 22 x 3

100

I have found the main weakness so far is the low damage output. Since most opponents want Jax dead ASAP, the omegas are often free to get their shots on target, and they do deal damage, but its not as much as say, a 4 ship build with 3 attack dice on each. I still need to practice it some more----I think I should fly it even more aggressively than I have been, so nothing conclusive yet.

So the main advantage that Opportunist brings is more 3 die attacks (or 4 at range 1). And at 21 points, its slightly cheaper than omega w/ comm & juke (making the Vader list possible---22 pt omegas simply do not fit).

In my opinion, comparing Juke directly to Opportunist and stating that Juke is inherently better is ignoring the obvious potency that throwing more red dice brings to a list. Also, its not fair to make a direct comparison when we are talking about using both together to enable more damage to squeeze through opponent defenses. So I feel that the 'vacuum' comparison of juke vs opportunist alone is less useful since it ignores the synergies they are providing for each other.

One last thing to keep in mind: opportunist has a psychological effect that a lot of people fail to consider: when you have a higher pilot skill ship that could be hit with one or more opportunist attacks, you are more likely to avoid using the focus token for offense. This translates into less damage coming at your ships, since its usually better to use focus for offense than defense (in the long run dealing more damage removes ships faster, giving you a point advantage and reducing incoming fire at the same time)

Edited by blade_mercurial

What about something like the following:

Esege w/ Recon Spec

Green w/ Juke + Opp

Green w/ Juke + Opp

Green w/ Juke + Opp

Esege is obviously your focus factory, and your greens just evade. Now your opponents REALLY don't want to spend tokens attacking, as they get hit with an extra red, and remove a positive green result, for 1.75 extra booms. per A wing. That's 5 extra DAMAGE each round. And then the greens can easily clear stress because they have the best dial in the game for doing that, and they're durable because they all have evade tokens. Plus, they can setup blocks for each other via their natural boost, forcing you to be tokenless.

The weak point of this list is obviously Esege. But with only needing to be R1-2 of the greens, he can hang back from the enemies. Furthermore, he can always jet out of there with SLAM (though no points for AdvSl to keep his tokens). And the greens are probably worse once he's gone than a juke + PTL green. I guess you just got to make sure that initial punch matters.

My only concern with that list is there's a decent chance that even after Esege shoots, target of choice will still have a token, so the first green's shot cannot use opportunist, and you are only getting an extra 2 red dice per turn of shooting from the last two green pilots. And the nature of a-wings is they don't have a constant time on target (like interceptors) so there will be times when they are shooting at different things and not concentrating fire to take full advantage of the juke+opportunist combo (situational admittedly, may or may not actually be a problem)

In my opinion we are not talking vacuum. We are talking about a case where Juke is always possible (since omegas have comm relay), while opportunist is dependant on many other factors (have you done segnor / koigoran ; does enemy have focus/evade <- Juke strips focus, better here).
Math, in case it matters:
1) In case opponent has agi 1, he has 3/8 to throw evade, opportunist with no token hads 4/8 chance to hit. So at agi 1 opportunist wins by 1/8 average dmg.
2) Agi 2 opponent has 1-(5/8)^2 to throw evade = 0.61, while opportinist with token does 6/8 = 0.75 extra dmg. 0.14 advantage to opportunist.
3) Agi 3 1-(5/8)^3 = 0.76 vs both tokens (actually this is closer to one token) while extra die has 0.94 chance to hit.