I would not want to convert more than one hardpoint into ordnance tubes...unless I'm going for a gimmick (like 2 Assault Missiles). You will probably still want other things like Single Turbo Lasers or Quad Lasers.

An important thing to keep in mind is what a crippled section of your ship does to the other. For example, on the Raider you can load up the front with missiles, but if the Aft gets crippled, you lose the Target Lock action. That means that the Fore hardpoint probably wants to either not require a Target Lock or be Lasers. I think if you have the Tubes though you either want to spend them on 3 missile options or 2 missiles/1 lasers just to save a bit on the price of things.

What about multiple copies of Weapons Engineer? If you can run two weps you can get 4 target locks. Enough for guns + missles/torps.

they don't stack.

They're not listed as limited. On the CR90 you could have one fore and aft.

First line of the card says "You may maintain 2 target locks." Not one additional but two total. An extra weapons engineer is legal but does nothing.

I'm not sure that it works like that. Put a W.E. on each section of the CR90. The cards not limited, it's not listed "huge ship only" and there's nothing in the rules, to my knowledge, to indicate that it's not possible to use 2 and get 2 actions to target lock 4 ships.

The part of the card you quoted clarifies the card's usage as normally you can maintain a TL only on one ship.

So, quick bit of obvious, but valuablish math to consider.

A single missile means you're paying more than the Quad/Ion for everything.

2 missiles bring the cost 3/4 stuff in line with the cost of the Quad/Ion

3 missiles brings the cost of everything except the 5 cost options below the Quad/Ion

That of course, turns it into an interesting problem of spending fewer points but also having fewer target locks. From a points perspective though nothing is worth it as a single. For just the one missile, things go up to the point where most are more than the Turbolaser. It's just not a great bargin. I think 2 is pretty much a lock, with the 3rd being either another missile or one hardpoint. It's mostly just a huge new supply of weapon variables to play on the hardpoints and the question becomes do the Lasers fight for a spot effectively?

Quad Lasers - Probably the most in danger. They compete pretty much directly with Cluster Missiles with the exact same range and power. One of their advantages though is a relative lack of need for target locks, as you can spend an extra energy to gunner the shot. That said, you're instead spending a target lock for a second shot you get to make regardless of whether or not the first hits. I'm guessing its probably out, but it might be worth it supporting Cluster Missiles for a short ranged brawler setup.

Ion Lasers - The unique range band gives it a place, but the competition is fierce. Ion Torpedoes become a premium option to get some low energy AoE at the cost of points and a TL. That said, the real competition is the Ion Pulse Missile. You trade the 4 band, a bit of accuracy, and auto crit damage for the ability to Ion large ships at no energy cost. Seems... better.

Turbolasers - The one that has no direct competition simply due nothing else being Range 3-5. Fights for a place, but its also the most expensive option and leaves you open to being rushed with that huge range 1-2 gulf. Really only has game vs large/huge ships.

So the big gain here? This huge new band of range 2-3 options available to the huge ships with a wide range of point costs and abilities:

What about multiple copies of Weapons Engineer? If you can run two weps you can get 4 target locks. Enough for guns + missles/torps.

they don't stack.

They're not listed as limited. On the CR90 you could have one fore and aft.

First line of the card says "You may maintain 2 target locks." Not one additional but two total. An extra weapons engineer is legal but does nothing.

I'm not sure that it works like that. Put a W.E. on each section of the CR90. The cards not limited, it's not listed "huge ship only" and there's nothing in the rules, to my knowledge, to indicate that it's not possible to use 2 and get 2 actions to target lock 4 ships.

The part of the card you quoted clarifies the card's usage as normally you can maintain a TL only on one ship.

And with WE you can maintain TL on two different ships. Two weapons engineers will allow you to maintain target locks on two different ships. Four WE's will still allow you to maintain a total of 2 TL.

What about multiple copies of Weapons Engineer? If you can run two weps you can get 4 target locks. Enough for guns + missles/torps.

they don't stack.

They're not listed as limited. On the CR90 you could have one fore and aft.

First line of the card says "You may maintain 2 target locks." Not one additional but two total. An extra weapons engineer is legal but does nothing.

I'm not sure that it works like that. Put a W.E. on each section of the CR90. The cards not limited, it's not listed "huge ship only" and there's nothing in the rules, to my knowledge, to indicate that it's not possible to use 2 and get 2 actions to target lock 4 ships.

The part of the card you quoted clarifies the card's usage as normally you can maintain a TL only on one ship.

The You in the weapons engineer refers to the whole ship, fore and aft. Both can use the same locks. By your logic the cr90 could naturally have 2 target lock, which simply isn't the case.

Also, you can only take the Target Lock action once per turn anyway.

It is a bit unfortunate that the Targeting Coordinator is limited to the space before actions. It'd be pretty sweet if he could give you an emergency TL mid combat.

What about multiple copies of Weapons Engineer? If you can run two weps you can get 4 target locks. Enough for guns + missles/torps.

they don't stack.

They're not listed as limited. On the CR90 you could have one fore and aft.

First line of the card says "You may maintain 2 target locks." Not one additional but two total. An extra weapons engineer is legal but does nothing.

I'm not sure that it works like that. Put a W.E. on each section of the CR90. The cards not limited, it's not listed "huge ship only" and there's nothing in the rules, to my knowledge, to indicate that it's not possible to use 2 and get 2 actions to target lock 4 ships.

The part of the card you quoted clarifies the card's usage as normally you can maintain a TL only on one ship.

And with WE you can maintain TL on two different ships. Two weapons engineers will allow you to maintain target locks on two different ships. Four WE's will still allow you to maintain a total of 2 TL.

Ok, where in the rules does it say that? Tacticians stacked before they got marked limited. The CR has crew spots fore and aft with weapons fore and aft. Has this been FAQ'd? Is the W.E. a legitimate crew for the Phantom that doesn't have a target lock action?

I can see the logic of your argument for a large ship but not for a huge ship like the Raider or CR90. Of course we may be arguing a moot point: FFG may have included restrictions on their use in the Gozanti.

Actually yeah, RAW the weapons engineer would work on a phantom...

Really effectively...

Thank god there are so many stress weapons that phantoms are easily dealt with, right fellas?

Actually yeah, RAW the weapons engineer would work on a phantom...

Really effectively...

Thank god there are so many stress weapons that phantoms are easily dealt with, right fellas?

You may maintain 2 target locks (only 1 per enemy ship).

When you acquire a target lock, you may lock onto 2 different ships.

You still need some method for aquiring a target lock. The WE does not allow you to acquire one it simply changes the results if/when you do acquire a TL. You get 2 to a maximum of two. I suppose 2 WE will allow you to acquire 4 TL at a time but you can't keep more than 2 of them.

This is true, the when gets you.

But if something can grant you a lock...

Also if you have FCS

Basically all you need is a jump-starter.

Also, you can only take the Target Lock action once per turn anyway.

It is a bit unfortunate that the Targeting Coordinator is limited to the space before actions. It'd be pretty sweet if he could give you an emergency TL mid combat.

I forgot about not taking two of the same action in a round. With each half of the CR90 being able to perform actions I got all excited for a missle boat. Though being able to grab a TL at R4-5 helps.

Trying to keep all these rules straight in my ageing brain has given me a headache!

Thanks for the reminder about single actions.

This is true, the when gets you.

But if something can grant you a lock...

Also if you have FCS

Basically all you need is a jump-starter.

Wasn't thinking about FCS. Good point. Still not sure weapons engineer is that great a fit on phantoms. Maybe against swarms but phantoms usually don't need so much help against swarms anyway.

It's hard to say. I suspect better than you think, depending on how you fly. If you like to focus down one target, forget it, if you have multiple to chip away at... useful.

I think this will be the configuration I fly first. Could toss Proton Torpedoes in there as well but I think 125 or so is the sweet spot for Corvette cost-efficiency.

I used to feel this way as well, but it was mostly because more points didn't really increase either my offense or defense once I'd developed a turn by turn energy usage rate. With missiles essentially taking one of the biggest drains off the table, spending 4-5 points for an additional attack seems well worth it. It's essentially a gunner that even works when you hit and doesn't prevent you from making additional attacks. Well worth it, IMO. It's essentially impossible to put an additional 3-4 red dice shot on the board for that cheap.

Yeah, FCS and weapons engineer on a phantom is brutal. Local guy has mastered a list for months now that depends on that combo, keeps target selection wide open, which is very important for a slippery devil like the tie phantom.

This really opens things up and allows my Bright Hope to better preform 2 roles very well.

Specifically, the Meat-shield role, as well as a jammer boat or area of effect target lock removal.

After getting my butt handed to me that game on TURN TWO, I thought of a devious, cunning, stupid plan.

Park the CR90 behind a GR75, still facing sideways. Specifically, with the GR75 with this:

"but how will the CR90 fire?" you may ask, "The 3 additional defense dice works both ways!"

Well by being dashing, of course. The CR90 will need some of these to be effective:

And maybe even some of these!

And some optional ones for the GR75

SHIELD WALL PHALANX FORMATION!

@Corellian Corvette, I've tried the Dash/CR90 alongside EM EMitter/GR-75 twice and it can be very effective, but also tricky to pull off. In my first game, the Raider started off in the middle of the field, facing our corner. We were able to obstruct many attacks, and my opponent didn't bother shooting the GR-75 because of the Bright Hope's +2 Reinforce. Eventually, I just stopped reinforcing, and he still tried to get my Corvette. The GR-75 occupied the range 1-2 area of the CR90 pretty well, preventing fighters from coming in too close.

In my second game, I set up facing straight at the enemy Raider, and he rushed in before I could maneuver right. I miscalculated and had Jan Ors in the way, so she would get run over if I maneuvered the CR90. I should have just run her over, because it ended up in a 3-Huge Ship pile up, and my GR-75 was taking three face up damage cards each round! It was a fiasco.

I think the general idea behind it is very solid, but execution will take some work.

This really opens things up and allows my Bright Hope to better preform 2 roles very well.

Specifically, the Meat-shield role, as well as a jammer boat or area of effect target lock removal.

After getting my butt handed to me that game on TURN TWO, I thought of a devious, cunning, stupid plan.

Park the CR90 behind a GR75, still facing sideways. Specifically, with the GR75 with this:

"but how will the CR90 fire?" you may ask, "The 3 additional defense dice works both ways!"

Well by being dashing, of course. The CR90 will need some of these to be effective:

And maybe even some of these!

And some optional ones for the GR75

SHIELD WALL PHALANX FORMATION!

Now the problem I see here is, how do you turn this?

This really opens things up and allows my Bright Hope to better preform 2 roles very well.

Specifically, the Meat-shield role, as well as a jammer boat or area of effect target lock removal.

After getting my butt handed to me that game on TURN TWO, I thought of a devious, cunning, stupid plan.

Park the CR90 behind a GR75, still facing sideways. Specifically, with the GR75 with this:

"but how will the CR90 fire?" you may ask, "The 3 additional defense dice works both ways!"

Well by being dashing, of course. The CR90 will need some of these to be effective:

And maybe even some of these!

And some optional ones for the GR75

SHIELD WALL PHALANX FORMATION!

I think you will find Han Solo<crew> necessary as he allows huge ships to use focus result on attacks. Remember 4 red dice from a huge ship is weaker than 4 red dice from a regular ship simply because starfighters can use focus tokens and modify focus results.

Now the problem I see here is, how do you turn this?

Side by side? Hmmmmm will an Epic pinwheel formation work? The CR90 wants to have it's broadside firing, after all.

**** I've really got to give this bad boy a try now...

What about multiple copies of Weapons Engineer? If you can run two weps you can get 4 target locks. Enough for guns + missles/torps.

they don't stack.

They're not listed as limited. On the CR90 you could have one fore and aft.

First line of the card says "You may maintain 2 target locks." Not one additional but two total. An extra weapons engineer is legal but does nothing.

I'm not sure that it works like that. Put a W.E. on each section of the CR90. The cards not limited, it's not listed "huge ship only" and there's nothing in the rules, to my knowledge, to indicate that it's not possible to use 2 and get 2 actions to target lock 4 ships.

The part of the card you quoted clarifies the card's usage as normally you can maintain a TL only on one ship.

And with WE you can maintain TL on two different ships. Two weapons engineers will allow you to maintain target locks on two different ships. Four WE's will still allow you to maintain a total of 2 TL.

Ok, where in the rules does it say that? Tacticians stacked before they got marked limited. The CR has crew spots fore and aft with weapons fore and aft. Has this been FAQ'd? Is the W.E. a legitimate crew for the Phantom that doesn't have a target lock action?

I can see the logic of your argument for a large ship but not for a huge ship like the Raider or CR90. Of course we may be arguing a moot point: FFG may have included restrictions on their use in the Gozanti.

Huge ship is still 1 ship.

and Weapon engineers don't state "when you take TL, you take 1 additional tl and can maintail 1 more TL"

it states "2"

no matter if you put 1 2 or 3 to the ship.

it's set value: 2 TL maximum

they don't need to create restrictions, it's already there.

they MIGHT FAQ and allow them to stack, allow HUGEs get 2 mods, not 1.

but until then your position is wrong. Huge ship=1 ship. sev value=set value.

Ion Lasers - The unique range band gives it a place, but the competition is fierce. Ion Torpedoes become a premium option to get some low energy AoE at the cost of points and a TL. That said, the real competition is the Ion Pulse Missile. You trade the 4 band, a bit of accuracy, and auto crit damage for the ability to Ion large ships at no energy cost. Seems... better.

Turbolasers - The one that has no direct competition simply due nothing else being Range 3-5. Fights for a place, but its also the most expensive option and leaves you open to being rushed with that huge range 1-2 gulf. Really only has game vs large/huge ships.

So the big gain here? This huge new band of range 2-3 options available to the huge ships with a wide range of point costs and abilities:

Flechette - Cheap filler shot. Low pow, Costs the TL, but its cheap.

Plasma - Another below average cost, but this time with solid base pow and some bonus damage

Concussion - Average cost number one. Chance of a hit goes up by a quarter.

Proton - Average cost number 2. Chance of a Crit goes up by a quarter. Likely strictly better in a world without focus.

Homing - Slight premium, but lets you use the TL to reroll or fire another missile.

Assault - Another slight premium, but this one with splash damage.

So yeah, options. It'll probably take a while before some "best" choices work their way out, but I think it really comes down to 3 missile builds that contain either Homing Missiles or Ion Pulses, or 2 missile 1 Harpoint builds, either built around close range with the Cluster/Quad combo or using one slot to add some Turbolaser kiting. Regardless, its a super exciting time to be experimenting with these ships. Getting firepower out of all 3 Hardpoints is just a big step up for these guys.

Ion Lasers: Do you actually see a lot of large based ships in epic? I don't usually as it's mostly epic or snub nosed. I'd much rather have the ability to crit from the Ion Laser than the ability to Ionize a large ship in one go. Crits against epic ships are....epic.

Turbolasers - These are good vs. a lot of different ships. I've taken down X-wings with them and B-wings die quite fast. Basically anything lower than Agility 3 is a good target. The ability to turn one eyeball into a hit is very good. Red dice are better than green. The range can be quite important in epic. Also great vs. other epic ships. Don't knock the Single Turbo Laser.

I really don't get your love of Ion Missile for epic. To me, it seems one of the worst options. It will ionize one large or small ship in a game that has dozens. It only does one damage. It will just take 2 energy off an epic ship. I'd rather do more damage to their shield than drop their energy levels. When you are in range to use it, they are probably just going to burn through it that turn anyways. Depending on init, they might have already burned through it.

You don't even mention Ion Torpedoes? What's not to love? Does 4 damage, Ionizes, and also hits everything around. The ability to control your enemy is so much greater in epic with this weapon than anything else. Your opponent will surely have swarms of fighters and you can zap many of them in one shot....but still do the 4 damage. This, in my mind, is the BEST weapon to use in epic. It works against everything...with the exception of having to hit a large ship twice. I'm OK with that, though, as it works so well vs. everything else.

When using ordnance, you're limited by target locks instead of energy. Which means ion pulse missiles are almost a "free" attack in that they use no energy and do not spend the lock. Not a primary damage source but a great option for a third hard point if you are already using ordnance.

I do get that you are short on actions and TL's for epic ships. I've been there without Ordnance. Still....out of all the options you can get instead of Ion Pulse Missile.....there are better ones. I just think the 2 Ion tokens that the missile does just are not worth spending points on. Ion Cannons are better for the lack of needing a TL, the range, and doing a critical in epic (which just cannot be understated). Homing Missiles don't require the TL and do actual damage. With all the things that you can do in a turn (or put in a hardpoint), I think it's just a waste of points to get Ordnance Tubes and then Ion Pulse Missile. I just see any option (except Flechette Torpedoes) as being better.

To me, the Ion Pulse Missile is to cripple a large based ship for a turn. That and only that. There are better options for every other use for it. The number of large based ships and the threat level that just one of them represents is pretty low in all the Epic games I've played. The only time I would consider using it is if I know I'm playing against 4 Bro Bots.