Does Geordanr have a way we can throw money at him to reward/bribe him to get the updates online as soon as possible? I am frantically trying to get an epic build together in my head.

I just fear people will end up not using this option for a lot of the same reasons they really use ordnance now, lack of action efficiency.

The combo of no energy, unlimited ammo goes a long ways to making ord better. Ord is also cheaper, a 4 point torpedo or missile vs a 6-8 point hardpoint. Could fill the front of a CR-90 with a torpedo and missile for the same price as a single turbo.

The Targeting Coordinator, doesn't say another (at least not on the one I can see online) so you could use that to gain TL's without spending actions. Sensor Team should work with it.

But even that doesn't work, I could see most people taking a single hard point with ord of some sort on it. Especially something like homing missile or one of the others that don't require you to spend the TL.

It's as was said above, not so much that ord will suddenly become super effective, but it should be at least as effective as the current hard points are and a lot cheaper.

There is an opportunity cost involved with Ordnance Tubes: it locks you out from the other modifications. Optimized Generators covers the cost of an Ion Battery or Single Turbolaser shot, and even runs an energy profit if you only need to assign one energy (to power a Dual Laser Turret or Quad Laser Cannons, for example). Automated Protocols is basically PTL for epic ships.

Was going to say that Automated Protocols only makes sense on Gozanti or GR-75 as they normally can only take one action. While Automated Protocols is still most at home on single card Epics, the Corvettes could use it in order to take BOTH reinforce and recover actions on the same turn. Target Lock with one section, Automated Protocal to Reinforce, then Recover with the other section.

There is an opportunity cost involved with Ordnance Tubes: it locks you out from the other modifications.

True, the new upgrades haven't really sunk in yet, so I didn't consider the two new modifications. So you're right, that it would likely be a all or nothing. Either you're going to make a missile/Torpedo boat or you won't.

But loading a CR-90 up with homing missiles which only require that you have a TL not spend it, could be a good build. More bang for the buck then you'd get with quads or turbos.

Torps on the other hand seem somewhat limited in usefulness. Since you have to spend the TL you can effectively only fire one per turn, unless there's something I'm overlooking?

I definitely need to run some turns and find the right balance of action/energy efficiency. In the past, I've found 2 hardpoints is pretty much the cap of efficiency, so the big question now is whether 2 Missiles/1 Hardpoint or 3 Hardpoints and the Generator Mod will work better. One big advantage to the former is just that Hardpoints generally come with a number of range limitations while missiles can sometimes avoid that.

Can you actually take actions from the other section from the one that triggered it? That makes a big difference and probably needs to be covered by whatever rule lets you take actions with the card in the first place. Certainly makes a big difference in how worthwhile that card is to take on the biggest ships. If not, you're limited to actions generated from crew cards.

I'm not sure what to think about the Transport. Being able to Jam and Reinforce seems much better, but its still a ship without a ton of value for the cost. I'm curious to try it, but it feels like its going to be ignored while the rest of your fleet dies.

There is an opportunity cost involved with Ordnance Tubes: it locks you out from the other modifications.

True, the new upgrades haven't really sunk in yet, so I didn't consider the two new modifications. So you're right, that it would likely be a all or nothing. Either you're going to make a missile/Torpedo boat or you won't.

But loading a CR-90 up with homing missiles which only require that you have a TL not spend it, could be a good build. More bang for the buck then you'd get with quads or turbos.

Torps on the other hand seem somewhat limited in usefulness. Since you have to spend the TL you can effectively only fire one per turn, unless there's something I'm overlooking?

Weapons Engineer (that you should already be taking anyway) doubles your targets. It's still pretty limited on Torps though and you still run into the problem of rerolling often being more powerful than the torp itself on a 3 dice attack. What's really kind of facinating is just trying to play with the different range bands now available.

Weapons Engineer (that you should already be taking anyway) doubles your targets.

Thanks I thought I was missing something but couldn't remember what.

But even then you're still limited to 2 Torpedo shots per turn. But 2 Torps and a Homing or Ion pulse missile could be an interesting mix.

Plus you still have your main gun left for long range shots.

Homing Missiles seems particularly awesome. Equip 3 hardpoints with them. Acquire a Target Lock on an enemy ship in arc ofthem. Fire, but do not modify. Fire the second at the same ship,do not modify.. fire the third at the same ship, modify if you want.

Next turn, pick a target and do it all again...

...OK, so it's unlikely you'll get all three in arc and in range regularly, and it's 20 points. But compare it to three Single Turbolasers at 24 points, and with zero energy expenditure (which leaves you with energy for Recover actions or other shenanigans)...

The big question will be whether missiles will let you save enough energy to make Recover spam viable. It's also a question of how vulnerable you're willing to be at range 1. Actions are generally pretty set in stone for these guys, so it will mostly be about finding a good rhythm turn to turn.

Homing Missiles seems particularly awesome. Equip 3 hardpoints with them. Acquire a Target Lock on an enemy ship in arc ofthem. Fire, but do not modify. Fire the second at the same ship,do not modify.. fire the third at the same ship, modify if you want.

Next turn, pick a target and do it all again...

...OK, so it's unlikely you'll get all three in arc and in range regularly, and it's 20 points. But compare it to three Single Turbolasers at 24 points, and with zero energy expenditure (which leaves you with energy for Recover actions or other shenanigans)...

As I said before, I think this is viable with two homing missiles. You can put both in the same arc on either the Raider or the Corvette and not have to worry about the third homing missile that is unlikely to be in the same set of arcs (harder for the Raider than it is for the Corvette). That being said, this is really just a super Cluster Missile that costs 15 points. Worth it? Not sure yet.

Just for reference, the first time you play an epic ship you "might" stick 3 Turbolasers in it, but you would never try it again. There is really no way to power all of them.

This is unrelated, but rather start a new post...

I wonder why they went with a mod to enable all the current ordnance instead of just making hard point ordnance launchers (that don't have energy requirements, or were more energy efficient). There are some ordnance that a bit problematic due to the TL requirements. But eh? Just a random curious thought.

I just fear people will end up not using this option for a lot of the same reasons they really use ordnance now, lack of action efficiency.

The combo of no energy, unlimited ammo goes a long ways to making ord better. Ord is also cheaper, a 4 point torpedo or missile vs a 6-8 point hardpoint. Could fill the front of a CR-90 with a torpedo and missile for the same price as a single turbo.

The Targeting Coordinator, doesn't say another (at least not on the one I can see online) so you could use that to gain TL's without spending actions. Sensor Team should work with it.

But even that doesn't work, I could see most people taking a single hard point with ord of some sort on it. Especially something like homing missile or one of the others that don't require you to spend the TL.

It's as was said above, not so much that ord will suddenly become super effective, but it should be at least as effective as the current hard points are and a lot cheaper.

There is an opportunity cost involved with Ordnance Tubes: it locks you out from the other modifications. Optimized Generators covers the cost of an Ion Battery or Single Turbolaser shot, and even runs an energy profit if you only need to assign one energy (to power a Dual Laser Turret or Quad Laser Cannons, for example). Automated Protocols is basically PTL for epic ships.

Was going to say that Automated Protocols only makes sense on Gozanti or GR-75 as they normally can only take one action. While Automated Protocols is still most at home on single card Epics, the Corvettes could use it in order to take BOTH reinforce and recover actions on the same turn. Target Lock with one section, Automated Protocal to Reinforce, then Recover with the other section.

It's honestly a very versatile upgrade, and the start of the three IMO. In addition to allowing you to both reinforce and recover (which should be hilarious on the Instigator), it also allows you to use a Crew or Cargo upgrade that would require an action to perform (Slicer Tools, Toryn Farr, WED-Repair Droid), while also keeping the ability to reinforce or recover. It really enhances the utility of those upgrades.

I definitely need to run some turns and find the right balance of action/energy efficiency. In the past, I've found 2 hardpoints is pretty much the cap of efficiency, so the big question now is whether 2 Missiles/1 Hardpoint or 3 Hardpoints and the Generator Mod will work better. One big advantage to the former is just that Hardpoints generally come with a number of range limitations while missiles can sometimes avoid that.

Can you actually take actions from the other section from the one that triggered it? That makes a big difference and probably needs to be covered by whatever rule lets you take actions with the card in the first place. Certainly makes a big difference in how worthwhile that card is to take on the biggest ships. If not, you're limited to actions generated from crew cards.

I'm not sure what to think about the Transport. Being able to Jam and Reinforce seems much better, but its still a ship without a ton of value for the cost. I'm curious to try it, but it feels like its going to be ignored while the rest of your fleet dies.

It's clear you (and others in this thread) haven't used the space whale in epic. The transport is amazing, Dutyfree+freq jammer and slicer tools is evil and MUST DIE, but it's only 43 pts and is hard to kill to boot. Bright Hope rams are terrifying.

Epic is awesome and I really hope it takes off as a format.

This

equals

I guess I'm going to have to lift the long-standing ban of J-Pop music from my bridge.

Worth it to dust-off the Raider though!

c. Impetuous title on Raider is scary-good against swarms.

Off topic a bit, but this made me think of

Instigator Title + Automated Protocols + Shield Technician- any time you perform an action - you get a reinforce or recover - So you can always gain +1 shield. (spending 0 energy on your recover).

It's honestly a very versatile upgrade, and the start of the three IMO. In addition to allowing you to both reinforce and recover (which should be hilarious on the Instigator), it also allows you to use a Crew or Cargo upgrade that would require an action to perform (Slicer Tools, Toryn Farr, WED-Repair Droid), while also keeping the ability to reinforce or recover. It really enhances the utility of those upgrades.

I feel the need to add that Automated Protocols specifically states that the first action cannot be Reinforce or Recover, so no stacking both. Still really good in my opinion.

I feel the need to add that Automated Protocols specifically states that the first action cannot be Reinforce or Recover, so no stacking both. Still really good in my opinion.

The argument being made is that, on the larger ships, you can perform a miscellaneous action with one section, trigger the protocols off of that to do one of the two actions, then do the other of the 2 actions as the other sections regular action.

I feel the need to add that Automated Protocols specifically states that the first action cannot be Reinforce or Recover, so no stacking both. Still really good in my opinion.

The argument being made is that, on the larger ships, you can perform a miscellaneous action with one section, trigger the protocols off of that to do one of the two actions, then do the other of the 2 actions as the other sections regular action.

I see. But Reinforce and Recover are always on the same section. Wait, you're suggesting the Raider can

1. Reinforce (fore section)
2. Acquire a Target Lock (aft section)
3. Activate Automated Protocols to Recover (fore section)

Wow. That's brilliant. I had assumed that the wording on the card was to prevent doubling up on the defensive actions. Looks like maybe I was wrong.

Fels Wrath might actually be useful in epic.

(is picturing a poor sap flying a TIE Interceptor with smashed window and 4-5 unexploded torpedo's on his lap)...

He fires at P.S. 5 -

Epic ships fire after that...

so - no.

Fels Wrath might actually be useful in epic.

(is picturing a poor sap flying a TIE Interceptor with smashed window and 4-5 unexploded torpedo's on his lap)...

He fires at P.S. 5 -

Epic ships fire after that...

so - no.

I'm looking at one homing or ion or tracers (cr90 only) and two clusters to effectively replace a single or ion and two quads. With weapons engineer and moving after all ships you can place your locks to shoot an unmodified homing or ion then fire off both clusters. I think clusters and quad are basically the same results. Clusters cost a target lock and always fires twice vs quads cost 1-2 energy. Normally both are shot unmodified. Would save alot of energy just by locking down your mod and target lock action. Tracers on a corvette to give out all the ships target locks would be outrageous to do every turn. The biggest difference from not having to get energy every turn is it makes you faster, boosting with the predial boost and RAC now for raiders. I think the missle huge ships are going to be all new beasts and will be quite different from the slow moving energy needing ships and the now dual action single card supports.

I see. But Reinforce and Recover are always on the same section. Wait, you're suggesting the Raider can

• Reinforce (fore section)
• Acquire a Target Lock (aft section)
• Activate Automated Protocols to Recover (fore section)

Wow. That's brilliant. I had assumed that the wording on the card was to prevent doubling up on the defensive actions. Looks like maybe I was wrong.

An argument could be made either way, depends on how FFG fix the card so that it actually functions. Assuming the fix is to simply allow the huge ship to perform free actions, then whichever section has the protocols would be the section that is performing the free action.

I see. But Reinforce and Recover are always on the same section. Wait, you're suggesting the Raider can

• Reinforce (fore section)
• Acquire a Target Lock (aft section)
• Activate Automated Protocols to Recover (fore section)

Wow. That's brilliant. I had assumed that the wording on the card was to prevent doubling up on the defensive actions. Looks like maybe I was wrong.

An argument could be made either way, depends on how FFG fix the card so that it actually functions. Assuming the fix is to simply allow the huge ship to perform free actions, then whichever section has the protocols would be the section that is performing the free action.

If that is the case then it would do no good on the Corvettes. The section with recover and reinforce only have recover and reinforce.

The real question is, when will they add a Bomb equivalent for this upgrade. Turning an Epic ship into a minefield layer.

I usually don't ask for build counters, but in this case, I think its the most appropriate question.

This list has been going around for quite some time as the go-to for massing fighters against anything.

Using the new stuff, make an Epic list with a capital ship that has a good matchup vs this (and a decent match against an opposing capital).

Onyx Squadron Pilot (32)

So, does automated protocols make back up shield generator poop now?
That was the previous way to take 3 actions (kinda) a turn

The main problem with this is the same problem with all of ordnance. You still have to spend target locks. Also with that in mind remember that focus will not work so don't try and put proton rockets (although I don't know why you would). You are spending 5 points so remeber with ordance tubes you are raising the price by 5 which is... Its is not that good when you compare to other hardpoint weapon like quad laser turret which cost 6 and does not eat up target lock. So this makes all ordnance ships cost from 7 points to 11. Now true that you do save some energy consumption so mroe energy for recovery actions but is it worth the squadron point cost?

OP pretty much covered it but I sorted my list into Yes, NO, and Maybe list. Again the Yes is well a maybe as it will work but that depends on ordnance ever being viable even in epic. No is a straight up never gonna happen. Maybe is pretty much meh. It is not unusable like the no but doesn't quite shine like the yes and yes doesn't even shine that much.

Torpedoes that may work

• Flechet Torpedoes: The cheapest torpedo and most effecient especially against swarm heavy epic lists as most of them will not be taking heavy hull ships. TIE swarms will be feeling the stress though you may want to take a weapons engineer with this if you double up on these. Combine with the Jam action and slicer tools and you will get one heck of a stress bot ship.
• Ion Torpedoes: Splash damage is a thing especially with more ships on the table. Giving all ships an Ion token helps clump them up so you can go huge ship bowling if needed. Also helps if they are clumping nearby their huge ship so you have an easier time of hitting.
• Plasma Torpedoes:Plasma is only good with ships that have 5 or more shields but since huge ships tend to regenerate shields you can be sure you will land that extra shield damage quite regularly unlike a standard match.

Torpedoes that will NOT work

• Advanced Proton Torpedoes: No matter how you look at it this upgrade wiil not do. Sure Hans can trade a target lock for a focus but APT requires you to spend that target lock and... yeah will not help you one bit.
• Extra Munitions: nuff said, don't put this on your ships.

Torpedoes that it is too soon to tell

• Proton Torpedoes: sure I guess it could work but that is 9 points for a slightly better HLC that spends target lock. It is not completely unusable like APT but I think this is closer to the not work category. However with all the starfighter swarms I could be wrong.

Missiles that may work

• Ion Pulse Missiles: Main thing TL is not spent. Range 2-3 but gives out 2 Ion tokens. Great way to drain energy from other huge ships in the knife fight range. Being also one of the cheapest point cost this could work.
• ​Homing Missiles: Again the TL is not spent and sure this would be a 10 cost to upgrade (adding the tube cost as well) but a range 2-3 attack that hits rolls 4 red dice and gives you TL rerolls. Sure this could work maybe.
• Cluster Missiles: Besides Quad Laser Cannons huge ships don't have that much in the range 2 band and even fewer in the range 1. This could work out to provide much needed close up firepower.
• Assault Missiles: Big thing splash damage, Only thing is you need to hit so best make sure you have a gunnery team. This will be good for getting starfighter away from the huge ship.

Missiles that will NOT work

• Proton Rockets: Needs focus, huge ships cannot have focus. Nuff said.

Missiles that it is too soon to tell

• Concussion Missiles: It comes with a built in gunner team effect but the thing is huge ships need focus modifications, not blank modifications. Maybe it will work but I can't say.
• Advanced Homing Missiles: With only the 2 range band it doesn't seem like it would work with a larger play area. Combine that with the fact huge ships are not that maneuverable and you might never see an opportunity to play this. However huge ships do move last so possibly easy to get those range 2 target locks. I can't say.

I think the most dramatic change will be the ability of a Huge ship to simply melt away a single target that it catches in the correct range. Epic just changed dramatically.

But something tells me a single missile that requires you to HAVE TL, not spend it

Shouldn't be fired many times in a row. They need to implement Armada's card exhaust mechanic