Ordnance tubes are an absolute game-changer in the Epic Format. This little mod is going to let us turn our Corvettes into mean, nasty missile/torpedo-boats. A few general thoughts:

1. Epic ships don’t have focus actions. (unless Esege works... those damned synergistic rebels!)

a. No tracers or prockets (duh) and Advanced Protons aren’t great .

b. Gunnery and Ordnance experts allow you to change up to two blanks a turn into hits.

2. You can fire once with each secondary weapon with no energy concerns. So long as you have targets in arc.

3. You can keep firing at a target so long as you have target locks.

a. Munitions that do not require the target lock will be extra useful. Keep shooting till they die!

b. Weapons engineer is your new Ugnaught buddy.

c. Impetuous title on Raider is scary-good against swarms.

4. Synergy is tricky but not impossible with Huge ships.

a. Imperials can use Jonus for rerolls.

b. Rebels can (apparently) use Esege for focus!

So, we are looking for missiles that:

• Roll lots of dice because modification is tricky
• Don't spend lock if possible because modification is tricky
• Give us some free dice modification

Well let’s look at the different missile options then.

Advance Homing

+ Keep TL for mod

+ Ignores shields!

+ Cheap

- Only 3 dice

- Range 2 restriction

=Can absolutely maim Huge ships and cheap enough to spam. Range restriction is going to require fancy flying.

Assault

+ 4 Dice

+ Free damage!

- Spend lock

= Swarm Killah!

Cluster

+ Covers range 1-2 gap

+ 2 attacks (duh)

- Spend lock

- Huge ships =/= action economy

=Better left to action efficient small ships (Scum epic with glitterstim?!?!)

Concussion

+ 4 dice

+ Free blank to hit, with gunnery and ordnance you're going to love blanks

- Spend lock

= Decent option if you want to avoid carrying the gunnery and/or ordnance teams

Homing

+ 4 Dice

+ Can help hit dodgy buggers

+ Keep the TL

- Expensive

=Only option to get a four dice attack and still have the TL for modification. Evade token ban is just icing.

Ion Pulse

+ Double ion. Ramming speed! or chew up energy on opposing Huge.

+ Keep the TL.

+ Cheap.

- Only 3 dice and max 1 damage

=Potentially a good option especially when paired with stress mechanics. Keeping the TL makes this the most reliable ion dealing ordnance. Can get two of these for the price of one ion battery.

Proton Rockets

=NEXT!

XX-23 S-Thread Tracers

=Even if you could, there are better places for a no damage attack.

Advance Proton Torpedoes

+ 5! Dice!

+ Covers range 1 gap

- Spend TL

- Range 1 only

- Expensive

- Changes results to eyeballs and you can't focus.

=Not going to work. Even Han crew can't help here as you spend the TL

Flechette Torpedoes

+ Cheap

+ Can stack stress on small targets even if you miss

- Spend TL

- Only 3 Dice

=Decent cheap stress option. Cheap enough to pair with ion ordnance.

Ion Torpedoes

+ 4 Dice

+ Free ion on top of damage

- Spend TL

- Expensive

=Less ion but more potential damage than Ion Pulse Missiles. I think the spent TL makes this the less attractive ion option.

Plasma Torpedoes

+ 4 dice

+ Free extra damage on shielded targets

+ Cheap

- Spend TL

=Cap Ship Killah! But maybe overshadowed by...

Proton Torpedoes

+ 4 dice

+ Eyeball to a crit? Yes, Please!

- Spend TL

=Did FFG just give us a place for our 40 different Proton Torpedo cards?... Maybe.

Closing Thoughts:

Ordnance is not going to simply replace all the big guns in every situation but they can be a good option that is cheap, not energy dependent and can cover the close range gap. Dutch, Esege and Roark will make your CR-90 much better and a Jonus rolling with your Raider will be insane. With smart building and good flying, the Corvettes might be able to hold their weight against fighters again.

You don't necessarily keep the TL for modification. You can also keep it to fire another rocket.

There are also shenanigans. Jonus allowing you to reroll for instance.

You don't necessarily keep the TL for modification. You can also keep it to fire another rocket.

Very good point. I think I was thinking that but then I forgot to keep thinking it long enough to type it.

Though, all of those missiles/torps are limited to Range 3. So huge ships that take them will be risking "blindspots" against other huge ships that have taken turbolasers to being the capital ship slugfest at Range 5.

Still, definitely lots of interesting ways to kit out huge ships now, and you can customize your craft to a sort of swiss-army knife against a variety of match-ups you might expect.

Fels Wrath might actually be useful in epic.

(is picturing a poor sap flying a TIE Interceptor with smashed window and 4-5 unexploded torpedo's on his lap)...

I think the most dramatic change will be the ability of a Huge ship to simply melt away a single target that it catches in the correct range. Epic just changed dramatically.

It really, really has.

I think the most dramatic change will be the ability of a Huge ship to simply melt away a single target that it catches in the correct range. Epic just changed dramatically.

Umm, but wasn't this the case even before Ordnance Tubes? You just melted it with lasers instead of warheads. Now, you have the option of more varied weapons, but it's not clear to me that overall firepower has dramatically scaled up.

I think the most dramatic change will be the ability of a Huge ship to simply melt away a single target that it catches in the correct range. Epic just changed dramatically.

Umm, but wasn't this the case even before Ordnance Tubes? You just melted it with lasers instead of warheads. Now, you have the option of more varied weapons, but it's not clear to me that overall firepower has dramatically scaled up.

Some of those torpedoes and missiles are quite epic in their scale of kabooms. Especially with all the possible mitigations.

I think the most dramatic change will be the ability of a Huge ship to simply melt away a single target that it catches in the correct range. Epic just changed dramatically.

Umm, but wasn't this the case even before Ordnance Tubes? You just melted it with lasers instead of warheads. Now, you have the option of more varied weapons, but it's not clear to me that overall firepower has dramatically scaled up.

Previous damage was very much dependent on energy. And if you spent all your energy on attacks, you could not regenerate shields or go fast. The missiles also provide some much cheaper options for dealing damage.

I think the most dramatic change will be the ability of a Huge ship to simply melt away a single target that it catches in the correct range. Epic just changed dramatically.

Umm, but wasn't this the case even before Ordnance Tubes? You just melted it with lasers instead of warheads. Now, you have the option of more varied weapons, but it's not clear to me that overall firepower has dramatically scaled up.

Previous damage was very much dependent on energy. And if you spent all your energy on attacks, you could not regenerate shields or go fast. The missiles also provide some much cheaper options for dealing damage.

Umm, sure, but there are some "hidden costs" to the ordnance, as well. Namely, you have to manage Range and Target Locks much more carefully than the pew-pew hard points. And Ordnance Experts and Gunnery Teams will still cost you energy to modify, and unless you're using Homing Missiles and burning the TL to re-roll your attack dice, you're sacrifice dice quality to a degree (don't forget that even the result-conversion warheads like Concussion and Proton Torps offer the same conversion built into Turbolasers, though they don't double target agility (but also have far less range and require burning a TL to fire)).

I'm not saying that Hardpoints are better than Ordnance or vice versa, but they each certainly have benefits and costs and can fill different roles. I certainly don't think the ordnance offer a blanket increase in firepower or damage over classic hardpoint gunships--which are already awesome in Epic, don't get me wrong.

Agreed. I think what this does is allows a ship to fill all of its hardpoints at a reasonable point cost and keep firing turn after turn.

Agreed. I think what this does is allows a ship to fill all of its hardpoints at a reasonable point cost and keep firing turn after turn.

That might be overkill. A CR90 with three ordnance upgrades can only acquire at most two target locks (and they have to be on different enemies). I suppose you could go for triple Homing Missiles and just not spend your lock(s) so that all three missiles can fire, but that means at most you're shooting only a single target (or two with Weapon Engineer) a turn, and that hampers your targeting flexibility a bit (especially since the overlap of fore and aft R2/R3 firing arcs is smaller (so if you're locking a ship only in the R2/R3 arc of the fore or aft, your other section's Homing Missiles can't even fire at that target. Meaning you'd have to take Weapon Engineer and have a fore-section and aft-section target lock ready for the respective Homing Missiles in cases where prime targets aren't in the relatively small overlap arc of both sections. And, of course, if you're not spending that lock (so that can fire repeatedly at that target) you're sacrificing a lot of dice quality.

Plus, a CR90/Raider with triple Homing Missiles will be vaporized by an enemy CR90/Raider with Turbolasers/IonBatteries before the missiles even come into range.

Regarding Efficiency, the point difference isn't that wild, especially when you have 300/400 total points:

Triple Turbolasers = 8x3 = 24 Points, you have complete target flexibility, better range, built-in mini-focus conversion, though you do double target agility

Ordnance Tubes + Triple Homing Missile = 4x5 = 20 Points, very limited target flexibility, restricted range, no built in die conversion, target does not double agility

I'm excited for Ordnance Tubes and I think they're awesome and look like fun. But I think a lot of you are thinking these things are like magic, and suddenly your huge ships are just going to be running around screaming "magic missile, Magic Missile, MAGIC MISSILE" as you blast everything in sight willy-nilly. Ordnance are going to be a lot harder to make work efficiently than I think a lot of people realize. They're still good, they certainly create some nice new options to tackle certain kinds of scenarios/enemies, but they're certainly not heralding in some end to standard laser and ion hardpoints by any means.

I may not have been clear. My intention was to say that ship can fill all of its hardpoints with a mix of ordnance and lasers.

Edit:

Honestly, ordnance has even less action efficiency on an Epic ship than it does on a small ship and everyone is jumping over it like it the best thing ever. There are a couple of gimmicks available, but on the whole I don't see ordnance load outs becoming a thing. Taking a single Assault Missile might be useful and a proton torpedo is somewhat efficient (though costs you 14 points or so with Ordnance Experts, or Gunnery Team to really make it shine).

The TL requirements and lack of focus really neuters ordnance on Huge ships, and Ordnance Experts and Gunnery Teams only get you so far (at least until they decide to make Gunnery Team no longer singular, still not sure why it is).

I think tracers and apt would be great for cr90 and esege combo. The 1 point tracer could give your whole squad a target lock on a priority target (capital ship). Apt and esege and even ionize reactor would make a range 1 no go zone for any ship.

Honestly, ordnance has even less action efficiency on an Epic ship than it does on a small ship and everyone is jumping over it like it the best thing ever. There are a couple of gimmicks available, but on the whole I don't see ordnance load outs becoming a thing. Taking a single Assault Missile might be useful and a proton torpedo is somewhat efficient (though costs you 14 points or so with Ordnance Experts, or Gunnery Team to really make it shine).

The TL requirements and lack of focus really neuters ordnance on Huge ships, and Ordnance Experts and Gunnery Teams only get you so far (at least until they decide to make Gunnery Team no longer singular, still not sure why it is).

But a standard ship will use munitions or its primary weapon. Epic ships get to shoot with all the things.

Honestly, ordnance has even less action efficiency on an Epic ship than it does on a small ship and everyone is jumping over it like it the best thing ever.

I think part of the reason is that, while huge ships are somewhat action inefficient, they are significantly more energy inefficient. Given the choice of firing 1 turbo laser or 3 missiles+doing something else each turn, I know which I'd prefer.

Snip

But a standard ship will use munitions or its primary weapon. Epic ships get to shoot with all the things.

This is very true and a good point and well made. But you are throwing an awful lot of points at ordnance to produce some disappointing attacks (not generally different from hard point attacks altogether to be honest, lack of dice manipulation make them fairly unfun and inefficient). If you are happy with lots of terrible attacks over fewer good attacks more power to you. You will note that X-wing is largely dominated by the latter currently (if you aren't rolling maximum hits you aren't likely to do much damage).

For what i is worth, I think the double Homing Missile has legs (I wouldn't go with three due to arc issues), if you put both on the same section, then fill the other hard point with your Turbo, Ion or Quads to taste. That gives you two 4 dice attacks, your primary (energy) and hard point (energy) which should be fairly efficient.

A single Proton Torp or Assault Missile can be thrown on the hard point you didn't fill due to energy efficiency problems which does give you a little more flexibility to be sure, but it is also stealing valuable TL from your other weapons.

I think the ordnance options probably have better scope on the Raider where it's primary weapon can do a lot of the heavy lifting.

Don't get me wrong, more options is great, I just fear people will end up not using this option for a lot of the same reasons they really use ordnance now, lack of action efficiency. It seems to be even more constrained on the Epic ships. I look forward to seeing how it works on the table.

The fact we have infinite makes them much more likable.

Snip

But a standard ship will use munitions or its primary weapon. Epic ships get to shoot with all the things.

This is very true and a good point and well made. But you are throwing an awful lot of points at ordnance to produce some disappointing attacks (not generally different from hard point attacks altogether to be honest, lack of dice manipulation make them fairly unfun and inefficient). If you are happy with lots of terrible attacks over fewer good attacks more power to you. You will note that X-wing is largely dominated by the latter currently (if you aren't rolling maximum hits you aren't likely to do much damage).

For what i is worth, I think the double Homing Missile has legs (I wouldn't go with three due to arc issues), if you put both on the same section, then fill the other hard point with your Turbo, Ion or Quads to taste. That gives you two 4 dice attacks, your primary (energy) and hard point (energy) which should be fairly efficient.

A single Proton Torp or Assault Missile can be thrown on the hard point you didn't fill due to energy efficiency problems which does give you a little more flexibility to be sure, but it is also stealing valuable TL from your other weapons.

I think the ordnance options probably have better scope on the Raider where it's primary weapon can do a lot of the heavy lifting.

Don't get me wrong, more options is great, I just fear people will end up not using this option for a lot of the same reasons they really use ordnance now, lack of action efficiency. It seems to be even more constrained on the Epic ships. I look forward to seeing how it works on the table.

I think we ended up at about the same conclusion. 2 missile/torps on the same section seems ideal. Ordnance is an effective close-range option that won't eat up your energy. Ion pulse will be very useful against low agility targets as well.

I think the Raider gets the better deal here as well due to the Impetuous Title and not putting all its eggs into one section. CR-90 gets Han and maybe Esege but I'm afraid Rebels are really getting hosed relative to Imps here. Gozanti is so much cooler than the no-gun space-egg too.

I just fear people will end up not using this option for a lot of the same reasons they really use ordnance now, lack of action efficiency.

The combo of no energy, unlimited ammo goes a long ways to making ord better. Ord is also cheaper, a 4 point torpedo or missile vs a 6-8 point hardpoint. Could fill the front of a CR-90 with a torpedo and missile for the same price as a single turbo.

The Targeting Coordinator, doesn't say another (at least not on the one I can see online) so you could use that to gain TL's without spending actions. Sensor Team should work with it.

But even that doesn't work, I could see most people taking a single hard point with ord of some sort on it. Especially something like homing missile or one of the others that don't require you to spend the TL.

It's as was said above, not so much that ord will suddenly become super effective, but it should be at least as effective as the current hard points are and a lot cheaper.

I have never played Epic (although I want to). I only own a GR-75. Yet this card wants me to buy all the epic ships because that picture of the Raider pummeling something with salvos of torpedoes is so freaking cool.

I just fear people will end up not using this option for a lot of the same reasons they really use ordnance now, lack of action efficiency.

The combo of no energy, unlimited ammo goes a long ways to making ord better. Ord is also cheaper, a 4 point torpedo or missile vs a 6-8 point hardpoint. Could fill the front of a CR-90 with a torpedo and missile for the same price as a single turbo.

The Targeting Coordinator, doesn't say another (at least not on the one I can see online) so you could use that to gain TL's without spending actions. Sensor Team should work with it.

But even that doesn't work, I could see most people taking a single hard point with ord of some sort on it. Especially something like homing missile or one of the others that don't require you to spend the TL.

It's as was said above, not so much that ord will suddenly become super effective, but it should be at least as effective as the current hard points are and a lot cheaper.

There is an opportunity cost involved with Ordnance Tubes: it locks you out from the other modifications. Optimized Generators covers the cost of an Ion Battery or Single Turbolaser shot, and even runs an energy profit if you only need to assign one energy (to power a Dual Laser Turret or Quad Laser Cannons, for example). Automated Protocols is basically PTL for epic ships.