As it is, this just feels like a bit of a no-brainer to take. The biggest headache in running a 'huge' ship...even without all those amazing upgrades on them...is the staggering difficulty in keeping the weapons hot while trying to do anything else at all. And now we've got something fully the equal in advantages of most of the hardpoint upgrades with no corresponding disadvantage? I dunno...seems like a missed opportunity.

Requiring target locks to fire and having worse range limitations than most Hardpoint upgrades seem like disadvantages to me.

They kinda don't, though.

I mean, MOST missile or torpedo weapons outrange a Quad Laser Cannon (range 1-2, only). There is pretty substantial overlap with Ion Cannon Batteries, as well (they only reach out 1 more range band than missile/torpedoes can).

About the only hardpoint that compellingly out-distances missiles or torpedoes is the Single Turbolaser - although let's face it, burning 2 energy and only rolling 4 dice against an enemy whose agility is DOUBLED means you aren't going to be shooting this very often at anything but other huge ships.

So if fitting something out to directly fight other huge ships, itself, sure...the existing hardpoints make better sense. Against a fighter force, they really don't compete at all, and I think the power advantage means even facing a *mixed* enemy...the advantage strongly lies in being able to cut down energy usage so massively.

(And as to 'requiring target locks' - that isn't much of a disadvantage. The only thing pulling a TL is going to interrupt on the CR-90 or Raider is the 'coordinate' aciton...'recover' and 'reinforce' are unimpeded. And given huge ships always activate AFTER all small and large ships...there really isn't going to be any mystery, when they are taking their action, as to who is going to be in range/arc and who isn't.)

As it is, this just feels like a bit of a no-brainer to take. The biggest headache in running a 'huge' ship...even without all those amazing upgrades on them...is the staggering difficulty in keeping the weapons hot while trying to do anything else at all. And now we've got something fully the equal in advantages of most of the hardpoint upgrades with no corresponding disadvantage? I dunno...seems like a missed opportunity.

Requiring target locks to fire and having worse range limitations than most Hardpoint upgrades seem like disadvantages to me.

Don't forget the other mods that are also awesome. Seriously two free energy every round is game changing.

Besides, I've never seen an epic match last me then a few rounds of shooting. I'm pretty sure that a military vessel would be equipped with dozens if not hundreds of rounds of munitions (fighters at least once we start talking the scale of the raider), and since you only fire one per round, you can just figure the ship has "enough rounds to last this fight"

Assault.

Missiles.

Actually, Homing Missiles. On a CR-90, anyway.

When you've got multiple hardpoints covering the same broad arc, loading out on weapons that don't require you to spend your target lock means one lock lets you fire many missiles.

As an added bonus, nuts to your evade tokens.

Huige ships suffer greatly to massed concentrated firepower from small ships, so I presume having Assaults (spending that TL, okay!) works greatly, psychologically.

You force the enemy to fly in more loose formation, what's great. It keeps your huge from concentrated Dakka.

And in most cases it's Focus token anyway.

P.S. I wonder how many people like making Huge ship a PS 8+ for extra lulz?

I mean...it's ordnance. Even on a huge ship...you DO run out of it. That's really what the counterbalance is compared to energy weapons. One is front-loaded...you've got a lot of it, but you run out, and when you are out then you are out...can't get any more. The other you have less of at any given point, but you never do run out of it - it just keeps replenishing. That balance would have been nice to see.

IE., I'd have been happier if they gave us a sheet of the new 'extra munitions' tokens with the expansion, and this modification card indicated you put a stack of, I dunno, 16 of them on the card or something - spending one each time a weapon is fired.

So rather than say that you can use it as often as you'd like during a match, you want to use a whole stack of tokens to keep track of with the same effect? How often do you fire your weapons more than 10 times?

For all practical reasons, there's no difference.

I mean...it's ordnance. Even on a huge ship...you DO run out of it.

Yes, but in a game that generally runs, at most, like, 10 turns, a capital ship that generally carries HUNDREDS of missiles is not going to run out.

It's already stupid as hell that fighters that normally carry a dozen missiles already only get one shot with them in this game. Running out on ships that have cargo bays full of them would be beyond stupid.

Huige ships suffer greatly to massed concentrated firepower from small ships, so I presume having Assaults (spending that TL, okay!) works greatly, psychologically.

You force the enemy to fly in more loose formation, what's great. It keeps your huge from concentrated Dakka.

And in most cases it's Focus token anyway.

P.S. I wonder how many people like making Huge ship a PS 8+ for extra lulz?

A pity that Assault Missiles don't do an extra damage on the 2. section - if fired on epic ships.

Originally these were designed to be anti-capital ship weapons and thats like how they work in Armada.

Huige ships suffer greatly to massed concentrated firepower from small ships, so I presume having Assaults (spending that TL, okay!) works greatly, psychologically.

You force the enemy to fly in more loose formation, what's great. It keeps your huge from concentrated Dakka.

And in most cases it's Focus token anyway.

P.S. I wonder how many people like making Huge ship a PS 8+ for extra lulz?

A pity that Assault Missiles don't do an extra damage on the 2. section - if fired on epic ships.

Originally these were designed to be anti-capital ship weapons and thats like how they work in Armada.

Well, they OBLITERATE anyone flying too close to the capital itself...

So not too good to be Howlie or Bonus_Bomber when the missles fly towards the space pizza corvette

Look at the ordnance upgrades, they are all plural in their titles. That implies that each attack is firing at least two rounds of ammunition. Cluster missiles might be firing at least two per attack, 4 or more total. It's like firing your primary weapon, do you think only one of the guns is firing? Those X-wings and Interceptors are probably shooting all the cannons in fire linked mode! Why would proton torpedoes be any different? Give them both tubes!

At least that's how I feel better thinking about it.

(Also when you get multiple hits and crits that can represent firing a second salvo right after the first...in fluffy terms at least.)

I will say, I think the implementation is weird.

Why is this a modification, instead of Missile Launchers/Torpedo Tubes, Hardpoint upgrades?

I think it was an upgrade so that they can fix the couple of things that have been off about the big ships...but...you can't take all of them. Imagine how bad it would be if you could take the Ordnance Tubes and some of the other upgrades? Your epic ships would be too nasty.

Also, it's a way to have different ships. You have to make choices as to which type of a ship you will build. That makes it interesting. Otherwise you would have THE way to build each ship and all the games would be the same.

I agree that whatever match you play for Epic won't go long enough to make you run out. I mean, is it worth it to give someone 20 Torpedo tokens and try to keep track in a game that doesn't usually go that many rounds? If you want to make a home campaign, then that's fine to limit ordnance. Still....you can probably fit in 100 of those suckers on a capital ship. Oh, and someone can just jump in from light speed and refill you.

I will say, I think the implementation is weird.

Why is this a modification, instead of Missile Launchers/Torpedo Tubes, Hardpoint upgrades?

Because then it'd either be one missile type or you'd still have to equip them, which would be clunky.

And modifications were unused on huge ships.

I will say, I think the implementation is weird.

Why is this a modification, instead of Missile Launchers/Torpedo Tubes, Hardpoint upgrades?

Because then it'd either be one missile type or you'd still have to equip them, which would be clunky.

Scyk has to disagree

Because then it'd either be one missile type or you'd still have to equip them, which would be clunky.

And modifications were unused on huge ships.

What do you mean one missile type?

It would work the same way it does now, only it would be a Hardpoint. Yes, you would have to have a copy of the card for each hardpoint you wanted to equip with missiles/torpedoes, but at least then it wouldn't use up a seemingly unrelated upgrade slot.

I will say, I think the implementation is weird.

Why is this a modification, instead of Missile Launchers/Torpedo Tubes, Hardpoint upgrades?

Becuase these kids play card games...

I think it was an upgrade so that they can fix the couple of things that have been off about the big ships...but...you can't take all of them. Imagine how bad it would be if you could take the Ordnance Tubes and some of the other upgrades? Your epic ships would be too nasty.

Can ships with 2 cards equip different mods to each?

Can ships with 2 cards equip different mods to each?

There has been some discussion, but the basic rules for modifications say 1 per ship. Unless something in the huges ship rules overrides that, there is no reason to think they behave differently.

As it is, this just feels like a bit of a no-brainer to take. The biggest headache in running a 'huge' ship...even without all those amazing upgrades on them...is the staggering difficulty in keeping the weapons hot while trying to do anything else at all. And now we've got something fully the equal in advantages of most of the hardpoint upgrades with no corresponding disadvantage? I dunno...seems like a missed opportunity.

above is quoted from another post.

I feel the huge ships need the nudge to pull their points. The CR-90 was underwhelming upon release. I think they were too cautious with it. I don't think most people feel like it really pulls it weight in points. This will help give it the nudge it needs. I think assault missles will be spectacular. also, it takes a hardpoint and your modification slot, so there is a significant opportunity cost.

Can ships with 2 cards equip different mods to each?

There has been some discussion, but the basic rules for modifications say 1 per ship. Unless something in the huges ship rules overrides that, there is no reason to think they behave differently.

people are confused because some squad building apps and sites allow 1 mod per card.

Can ships with 2 cards equip different mods to each?

There has been some discussion, but the basic rules for modifications say 1 per ship. Unless something in the huges ship rules overrides that, there is no reason to think they behave differently.

people are confused because some squad building apps and sites allow 1 mod per card.

This has been admitted as a flaw with the app; the designer is looking into how to fix it (Given it involves designing the app to now share rules between cards, this is not as simple as usual).

I will say, I think the implementation is weird.

Why is this a modification, instead of Missile Launchers/Torpedo Tubes, Hardpoint upgrades?

Thematically? Because the standard hardpoints are for energy turrets; they've been modified to accept munitions launchers, and associated ammunition magazines.

Mechanically? Would you like versalite, energy-free (but range and target-lock limited) hardpoint weapons that let you blast away while using your energy elsewhere, the ability to defend yourself while being useful, or just a straight-up free two energy a turn provided you're blowing the stuff on other cards?

These are balance fixes, straight up. And they'd like to keep 'em strictly "Pick one". The only loser to the whole thing is Combat Retrofit... but until these cards came along, I never saw that one anyway.

Thematically? Because the standard hardpoints are for energy turrets; they've been modified to accept munitions launchers, and associated ammunition magazines.

You could say the same thing about every Turret and Cannon upgrade in the rest of the game.

Y-Wings don't come with Twin Laser Turrets, they come with Ion Cannon Turrets. TIE Defenders don't come with Heavy Laser Cannons, they come with Ion Cannons. But none of those upgrades are modifications. All of them go in the space they go in.

I don't see any good reason why the Tubes couldn't have been a Hardpoint upgrade.

In addition, doing it that way would allow for my accurate pricing. As it stands, replacing only one hardpoint with a warhead or replacing 3, costs you 5 points regardless. Which, frankly, doesn't make sense. The cost should be based on how many of the things you're actually using.

Jesus Christ stfu about the spelling and talk about the upgrade!!

Says the guy who just commented on the spelling without talking about the upgrade?