Peril is a new keyword in The Lord of the Rings Saga Expansion. When a player reveals an encounter card with the Peril keyword, he must resolve the staging of that card on his own without conferring with the other players. The other players cannot take any actions or trigger any responses during the resolution of that card's staging.

Response: After attached hero commits to a quest. name enemy, location or treachery. If a card of the named type is revealed during this quest phase, ready attached hero.

How should this interaction play out if I name Treachery with Wingfoot and another player reveals a Treachery with the Peril keyword. Can I ready? At what point can I ready?

I think that the readying part of Wingfoot is not a response but a passive effect that is floating around the game state, so I think Wingfoot would ready the hero at the same moment as it'd normally ready the hero, whenever that happens to be! But I dont think I know anything any more!

Agreed. You have already triggered the response, so it is now a passive effect and the hero would ready.

Agreed. Peril says that players may not trigger responses. I don't remember where, but I am pretty sure that the developers already ruled that passive effects are not triggered effects and as such are not affected by cards that say you "cannot trigger ..."

Ok so you've answered my first question. But at what specific point can I ready? Let's consider Doomed rather than Peril. If I am at 49 threat and Haldir is at 2/3 damage, and has Wingfoot, the Spider's Web, and The Fall of Gil-Galad attached, and I name Treachery and reveal a Doomed 1 Treachery card, can Haldir ready from Wingfoot, die from the Spider's Web, and trigger The Fall of Gil-Galad before doomed hits me?

Edit: I am trying to figure out where exactly to put Wingfoot in my Revealing Cards guide.

Hmm, I honestly don't think we can determine a good answer based on the card text we have. The passive effect lets you ready "if a card of the named type is revealed ".

It seems to me that it would come just before "After revealed" effects, but I really think you can make an argument for other timings as well. In your example, I do not believe you could lower your threat first, but as I said, I can see other opinions as it really just depends on how you interpret "is revealed" and we've seen just because it is past tense doesn't really mean too much lol...

Would it be more fluid if you had to wait to ready the hero until the entire card has been resolved?

Would it be more fluid if you had to wait to ready the hero until the entire card has been resolved?

Wingfoot could work at the very end, right before Surge. The only thing that stops me from doing that is that it seems wrong to put a passive effect that triggers when it "is revealed" after effects that say "after it is revealed". I know we have the case of The Door is closed using "after it is revealed" and coming before many other things but that's pretty much an errata as far as I'm concerned.

Some people have argued (though I haven't seen a ruling) that if you attach Tireless Ranger to Eleanor or Merry you should be able to quest them and have them ready with Wingfoot in order to trigger their ability. If Wingfoot is at the end you couldn't do that.

Yeah, I've seen those arguments as well. I really can't say for certain where it is in the timing structure.

Argument 1: You have to wait until the end of the quest phase. Reasoning - It says "If a card of the named type is revealed during this quest phase , ready attached hero." Therefore, you should wait until the end of the quest phase to resolve it. It would say "during the staging step" if it wanted you to ready earlier.

Argument 2: You have to wait until the When Revealed effect is resolved. Reasoning - It says "If a card of the named type is revealed during this quest phase, ready attached hero." It uses the past tense variation of revealed (and does not use the phrase "just revealed" like A Test of Will and Eleanor so you should fully resolve the When Revealed effect before applying the effects of Wingfoot. It would happen just before "After revealed" effects resolve.

Argument 3: It happens right before the card's When Revealed text resolves. Reasoning - The effect on Wingfoot is a passive effect and "is revealed" is synonymous with "When Revealed". Therefore, the passive effect on Wingfoot comes before the When Revealed (which is a type of Forced effect).

I think those are the most logical timings, I suppose you can argue that "is revealed" is the same as "just revealed" and put it into that timing but I think that causes me to question why "When Revealed" effects wouldn't also be put there. And if When Revealed effects were also put there, they would necessarily come before you could use A Test of Will due to "Forced > Response" timing rules. So it seems wrong to me to include Wingfoot before or in the "just revealed" step.

I prefer Argument 2. However, if they wanted you to wait until after, why didn't they somehow incorporate that word into the phrasing (Example: Gimli ally)

So if I understand argument 2 correctly, it would not work for Eleanor but it would for Merry?

You are reading it correctly. I suppose that's how it would resolve...if Argument 2 is correct (which I'm not positive it is).

I'm kinda new to this, is there an extremely technical "full rules" anywhere? I know other card games I've played have them And it's great to dive into deeper mechanics rather than wait for errata.

From what I understand of the game though, case 1 would not be true. The wording "This Quest Phase" is a timing window for the passive duration. It's not waiting for the end of the window to trigger, it just waits until then. Passed the end of the phase the passive effect will end.

Case 3 sounds like the most appropriate one for this situation because its seems to me that the order of operations is passives, then triggers. However it wouldn't mean anything else can jump in front of the when revealed with it. The next effect would still depend on it's own timing.

So my assumption for both Eleanor and Merry is that the passive triggers when the card type is revealed, but before When Revealed things occur. Then being ready, they would both use their ability after the when revealed hits. Now Eleanor would cancel the when revealed while Merry would let the when revealed occur before exhausting, just by the timing of their own abilities.

To the post by Seastan - my assumption leads to some bad news. (note this is still my assumption)

The passive effect of readying is available for Wingfoot to ready your hero, however the other triggered effects wait until after the reveal of the card completes. So you would do your When Revealed, including doom, before you would take a damage from the web to die and reduce your threat from gil galad.

My reasoning for this goes back to my first assumption which is that the passive is already in effect, and so it will jump in front of a when revealed, but it doesn't let other things jump in front with it. Eleanor doesn't even jump in front of a "when revealed" technically as responses happen after an occurrence, it's just that her occurrence cancels the when revealed. It's the make up of canceling a when revealed, not the nature of a response.

Assuming you meet the condition specified under Wingfoot, the card readies the hero at the end of the Quest phase

The reason why is that--because of the text "If a card of that named type is revealed during this quest phase " (emphasis mine)--you only check the fulfillment of the trigger at the end of the quest phase. This also conveniently answers timing issues: since it's at the end of the phase, it's obviously done after surge/"When Revealed"/Doom/etc.

I can easily see the argument the other way around though. The problem with that is it seems to only trigger once, as per the word "If" and the whole "one trigger per opportunity" thing, the "opportunity" here being "the quest phase."

If it were each and every time the named type is revealed though, that would be bonkers. For example, attach it to Faramir, he exhausts to quest, names treachery, readies when Old Wives' Tales is revealed, then unexhausts again if another Treachery is revealed.

The reason why is that--because of the text "If a card of that named type is revealed during this quest phase " (emphasis mine)--you only check the fulfillment of the trigger at the end of the quest phase. This also conveniently answers timing issues: since it's at the end of the phase, it's obviously done after surge/"When Revealed"/Doom/etc.

This is an interesting, novel interpretation of the card that I wager most people have not thought of. Is the "opportunity" this...?

if a card of that named type is revealed (by the way, only during this particular quest phase that you triggered Wingfoot by committing its attached hero to the quest)

or this...?

if this particular quest phase includes revealing of a card of that named type

I think you're arguing for the second one. Still, I don't know that that entirely resolves the issue, since it could be argued that, even with an errata'ed wording to favor that second interpretation, as soon as an appropriate card is revealed, a player could say, "Welp, this quest phase clearly has a revealed enemy, so the opportunity has occurred, I'm readying my hero now!" (barring Frodo+One Ring or Quick Ears shenanigans, ohgodistherenowaytosaythesethingssuccintlyanymore...)

I think the card would have to be explicitly worded, "...ready attached hero at the end of the quest phase" for your take on it to be definitively correct.

Heh, that's the entire point of our discussion on Wingfoot...it's terribly written, and thus incredibly confusing!

I think the card would have to be explicitly worded, "...ready attached hero at the end of the quest phase" for your take on it to be definitively correct.

Likewise, the card would have to say "When a card of that named type" instead of "if" for it to definitively ready while the Quest Phase is in progress (like what most people assume).