Come to think of it a 7 swarm with juke and 4 crackshots sounds nasty.
Six would be the cap of any combination of the two EPTs on Black Sqd TIES.
I think Juke is going to bring back TIE swarms in a big way
black juke 16
4 blacks crackshot 4*15
2 academies 2*12
After the Focus is gone (I'm assuming no Evade token either), 2 attack dice with 1 reroll and juke against 4 defense dice has a 61.87% hit chance and .8781 mean damage (0:38.13%, 1:35.93%, 2:25.94%). Once you strip the SD, it's 73% to hit and 1.0718 mean damage (0:27%, 1:38.82%, 2:34.18%). That's all ignoring crit effects.
For the situation you're describing (2 attack dice with 1 reroll vs. 4 unmodified defense dice):
No attacker mods: 32% hit chance, 0.39 mean damage
Attacker has focus: 46% hit chance, 0.59 mean damage
Evade + Juke: 62% hit chance, 0.88 mean damage
Focus + Crack Shot: 79% hit chance, 1.23 mean damage
Juke is great if you can focus fire over and over, but I think I'd still prefer Crack Shot for a few reasons:
- Clearly, Crack Shot is better for one attack each game.
- Crack Shot doesn't always have to be spent for full effect (e.g. if the defender preemptively burns focus or evade), so it can often effectively apply to more than one attack each game.
- Crack Shot falls off in effectiveness after you spend it (obviously), but Juke also falls off in effectiveness over time. As soon as you can't make 3-4 attacks on the same target (due to maneuvering or attrition), Juke isn't much better than just focusing, because of that one attack where the defender can spend focus (still getting its benefit) and negate Juke.
- If you're delivering the same total number of hits, it's better to front-load your damage as much as possible and take out ships.
One possibility, though, is to use both: You can fly 5x Green Squadron Pilot with Crack Shot and Juke. I'd like that list better if only they had higher PS, so they'd have a better chance of being able to use the evades on both offense and defense. Could be fun, though.
Come to think of it a 7 swarm with juke and 4 crackshots sounds nasty.
Six would be the cap of any combination of the two EPTs on Black Sqd TIES.
Also, mixing them is a bad idea in general. Juke is more effective the more you have in a list, so you want to go all Juke if you go that path. Just a couple Jukes isn't very effective.
Well, unless you also bring along Carnor 
Come to think of it a 7 swarm with juke and 4 crackshots sounds nasty.
Six would be the cap of any combination of the two EPTs on Black Sqd TIES.
Also, mixing them is a bad idea in general. Juke is more effective the more you have in a list, so you want to go all Juke if you go that path. Just a couple Jukes isn't very effective.
Well, unless you also bring along Carnor
I'm not sure about that. I mean I think a single Juke on a high PS ship is fine.
Edited by AlexWI'm looking forward to Juke on Kir Kanos
...
oh - wait...
nevermind 
Juke+SPA on a Phantom seems like it would be weaker against most ships. It's going to attack about half as much and if there is a high PS arc dodger or turret around that can consistently get shots at the Phantom, Juke is going to be useless because you'll end up spending your evade before shooting.missed the crackshot boat
https://cdn-webimages.wimages.net/05158c36030cd3327571406bd6fc301f5b2d72-wm.jpg
if there ever will be a time when you could fly a phantom without VI, juke would be veeery nice on it.
stygiums, manI
Echo, FCS, stygium, Juke (36)
season with Kallus/Captive/Recon
I know.. it could work.. but it'd feel so .. naked without VI.
too much fear, and that leads to the VI-side..
have to try it -some- day, though.
If you could give it to an SPA Sigma, it might work pretty well.
Which is leading me to wonder how well Juke would work on Cloak + SPA + Sensor Jammer on Guri.
The more I look at it, the more _evil_ that seems.
Carnor + 3 omega jukers. A properly annoying list, by the looks of it
Edited by Punning PunditCan someone outline which match-ups a crackshot swarm would outperform a juke swarm against?
I'm not coming up with anything decisive (but then I've got a five-day-old and so am running on less sleep than normal).
Which is leading me to wonder how well Juke would work on Cloak + SPA + Sensor Jammer on Guri.
The more I look at it, the more _evil_ that seems.
The version I've been thinking about is:
Palob + TLT + Cloaking Device + SPA + Juke
Mist Hunter + Sensor Jammer + Juke
Mist Hunter + Sensor Jammer + Juke
Depending on the PS5 Mist Hunter cost or which named pilots you use, there should be a few points left for upgrades. Palob steals their focus tokens, and then both Sensor Jammer and Juke work to full effect. Burning down Palob first is hard because of cloak + SPA.
You should be able to squeeze in Palob + Guri + Mist Hunter instead, though it probably means no other upgrades and maybe dropping Juke from Palob.
Which is leading me to wonder how well Juke would work on Cloak + SPA + Sensor Jammer on Guri.
The more I look at it, the more _evil_ that seems.
The version I've been thinking about is:
Palob + TLT + Cloaking Device + SPA + Juke
Mist Hunter + Sensor Jammer + Juke
Mist Hunter + Sensor Jammer + Juke
Depending on the PS5 Mist Hunter cost or which named pilots you use, there should be a few points left for upgrades. Palob steals their focus tokens, and then both Sensor Jammer and Juke work to full effect. Burning down Palob first is hard because of cloak + SPA.
You should be able to squeeze in Palob + Guri + Mist Hunter instead, though it probably means no other upgrades and maybe dropping Juke from Palob.
Having an HWK-290 that's actually maneuverable is kind of unholy.
I do like the idea of Juke on Palob, but I think in practice it's too reliant on either the opponent having the evade action, or your Cloaking Device holding out. Palob facing BBBBZ is not going to get use out of Juke half the time he's got a focus token (because he'll have just cloaked), and the Cloaking Device only lasts an average of (I think) 4 turns of use.
And thinking all of that through tells me that it's not quite as good on Guri as I had hoped.
Having an HWK-290 that's actually maneuverable is kind of unholy.
I do like the idea of Juke on Palob, but I think in practice it's too reliant on either the opponent having the evade action, or your Cloaking Device holding out. Palob facing BBBBZ is not going to get use out of Juke half the time he's got a focus token (because he'll have just cloaked), and the Cloaking Device only lasts an average of (I think) 4 turns of use.
And thinking all of that through tells me that it's not quite as good on Guri as I had hoped.
Yeah, Juke on Palob isn't as efficient as on the others. Definitely something that could be dropped for other upgrades.
What I'm really hoping for is that Gonk will give shields and stress, and then I can run Palob with Gonk and Wired. Anything that adds defense to Palob will be points well spent, because he always seems to be the first target.
Somehow I wasn't realizing that Guri doesn't have evade on her bar. With SPA as her only source of evades (and preventing you from using Autothrusters), I agree it's not a great fit.
Carnor + 3 omega jukers. A properly annoying list, by the looks of it
I'm a huge fan of the Omega FOs and am really looking forward to the new EPTs and Techs that will continue to improve them. I too am finding the FOs as great wingmates to Interceptors because they have the dial to keep up. Interceptors with FO lists are a lot of fun to fly.
Carnor + 3 omega jukers. A properly annoying list, by the looks of it
I'm a huge fan of the Omega FOs and am really looking forward to the new EPTs and Techs that will continue to improve them. I too am finding the FOs as great wingmates to Interceptors because they have the dial to keep up. Interceptors with FO lists are a lot of fun to fly.
Waiting for new EPTs? Crackshot is here already, bud.
Carnor + 3 omega jukers. A properly annoying list, by the looks of it
I just did the math and realized that fits better than I expected. Fully loaded Carnor (AT, PTL, Stealth/Hull) plus three Omega Squadron with Comm Relay and Juke is an even 100. Definitely a list to try out.
Edited by kerbarianI'm looking forward to Juke on Kir Kanos
...
oh - wait...
nevermind
It wouldn't be all that great on him anyways. At range two and three he will have spent his evade token to get his extra hit before Juke would even activate. I guess it would be okay to use to get some more power out of his range one shots but there's better choices if he had an EPT.
I'm looking forward to Juke on Kir Kanos
...
oh - wait...
nevermind
It wouldn't be all that great on him anyways. At range two and three he will have spent his evade token to get his extra hit before Juke would even activate. I guess it would be okay to use to get some more power out of his range one shots but there's better choices if he had an EPT.
Both occur "when attacking" as the active player you choose order. Not that they will ever errata it because it's not possible. But if it where I would expect it to work and be nice to "essentially" grant 2 "extra" hits.
I'd run:
Inquisitor+ Juke + thrusters + title
Kir+ juke + thrusters + title
Shuttle+ fleet officer+ Adv sensors+ tactical jammer+ tactician
AP
Let the shuttle and tie lead the way long enough and then fortress them in optimal position. Keep Kir and inquisitor behind for the first engagement. Shuttle is a mobile screen while it turns around but I'd assume it's scary enough with focus farming and tactician to take some attention.
I'm looking forward to Juke on Kir Kanos
...
oh - wait...
nevermind
It wouldn't be all that great on him anyways. At range two and three he will have spent his evade token to get his extra hit before Juke would even activate. I guess it would be okay to use to get some more power out of his range one shots but there's better choices if he had an EPT.
Both occur "when attacking" as the active player you choose order. Not that they will ever errata it because it's not possible. But if it where I would expect it to work and be nice to "essentially" grant 2 "extra" hits.
I'd run:
Inquisitor+ Juke + thrusters + title
Kir+ juke + thrusters + title
Shuttle+ fleet officer+ Adv sensors+ tactical jammer+ tactician
AP
Let the shuttle and tie lead the way long enough and then fortress them in optimal position. Keep Kir and inquisitor behind for the first engagement. Shuttle is a mobile screen while it turns around but I'd assume it's scary enough with focus farming and tactician to take some attention.
They don't have the same timing. Kir Kanos's ability happens when you modify attack results. Juke happens when you modify defense results.
I know. I just saw ya on the other thread too. When they errattaed him to have an EPT they can also erratta that it works like crackshot! Now that really would be a "FIX".
I know. I just saw ya on the other thread too. When they errattaed him to have an EPT they can also erratta that it works like crackshot! Now that really would be a "FIX".
I didn't realize we were having the same conversation in two different threads at first. I had assumed I had written a response and just forgot to hit the post button.