Stuff with too many Evades = TRC

Stuff with high damage output = XI7

The XI7s are among the most cost-effective upgrades in the entire game.

They are the undisputed best weapon to have if you have a TL slot.

*cough* Corvette's with TRC's *cough*

I see more TLRCs and ECMs than APs and XI7s nowadays. ECM is just mandatory for survival now. XI7s are perfectly fine as is. I'm just seeing a lot of scout mc30s and cr90s of late and TLRCs are amazing on those

I see more TLRCs and ECMs than APs and XI7s nowadays. ECM is just mandatory for survival now. XI7s are perfectly fine as is. I'm just seeing a lot of scout mc30s and cr90s of late and TLRCs are amazing on those

ECMs are "mandatory" only on: A) ships that can take them and B) are worth enough to spend points protecting...

The XI7s are among the most cost-effective upgrades in the entire game.

They are the undisputed best weapon to have if you have a TL slot.

*cough* Corvette's with TRC's *cough*

They are the undisupted best weapon to have if you have a TL slot, unless you have double evades to TRC.

Fixed.

Stuff with too many Evades = TRC

Stuff with high damage output = XI7

I'd add:

Stuff with high damage output but few to no blue dice = Heavy Turbolaser Turrets

Nebulon-Bs = maybe Slaved Turrets? Maybe?

I see more TLRCs and ECMs than APs and XI7s nowadays. ECM is just mandatory for survival now. XI7s are perfectly fine as is. I'm just seeing a lot of scout mc30s and cr90s of late and TLRCs are amazing on those

ECMs are "mandatory" only on: A) ships that can take them and B) are worth enough to spend points protecting...

The former is obvious. We're discussing APs after all. The latter, however, I didn't even think about. I've been using an MC80 and two Neb-Bs for too long.

I see more TLRCs and ECMs than APs and XI7s nowadays. ECM is just mandatory for survival now. XI7s are perfectly fine as is. I'm just seeing a lot of scout mc30s and cr90s of late and TLRCs are amazing on those

ECMs are "mandatory" only on: A) ships that can take them and B) are worth enough to spend points protecting...

The former is obvious. We're discussing APs after all. The latter, however, I didn't even think about. I've been using an MC80 and two Neb-Bs for too long.

By now, I've accepted the fact that MC80s come with ECM tax. Same with the ISD-II. ECMs are meta mandatory.

I still prefer AP on my MC30's. But that's just my feelings.

I don't see much AP/ECM/XI7 when I play tournaments. Yet.

I still prefer AP on my MC30's. But that's just my feelings.

I don't see much AP/ECM/XI7 when I play tournaments. Yet.

After playing in wave 2 i am honestly more intrigued by the ECM/ Intel officer economy since as accuracy results become more common (home One/ mass dice) Ecm becomes essential and naturally it's counter, Intel Officer, becomes more useful

On HTT vs XI7:

I'll take the HTT over the XI7 on larger ships, but the XI7 is better with smaller ships with less dice to throw. I think it hits a break even point with medium ships, but there's a lot of variance there and I don't have time today to chart it all out.

Here's a quick breakdown as to why I like it on larger ships. ISDs and MC80s have the potential to throw out between 8-10 points of damage in a single shot: with the right admirals and upgrades I don't think that's an unreasonable amount to expect. With HTTs, either a brace or some other combination against 10pts nets you 1-4 points of hull damage past shields, while a brace + redirect 1 gives you one shield facing dropped, maybe 1 hull damage. Against 8 pts HTTs get you 0-2 hull points but always at least drop a shield facing, while brace + redirect 1 only drops a shield completely against two 3 shield facings.

At higher damage outputs, HTTs are clear winners. Yes, APs throw a huge monkey wrench into that and XI7s will be more reliable at dropping shield facings in that situation, but that's a chance I'm willing to take. If they spend 6 points on a ship to slow down my killing it, so be it, I'll either focus on it to wear it out or ignore it for a turn and wipe out the rest of their unprotected fleet. If they spend 6 points on ALL their ships, that's in my favor as well.

Once you get into lower damage outputs, though, the XI7s are clear winners. Against 4 pts of damage, an HTT brace whittles down a single shield facing, but a redirect makes it mostly irrelevant compared to the XI7s that will reliably focus damage into the targeted zone and wear it down, even when bracing and redirecting (which has the additional effect of your opponent spending two defense tokens instead of one).

That's my quickie breakdown of it, though, which is also slightly biased by the awesome rolls I got with an Ackbar Defiance with HTTs that totally wrecked another MC80 in two shots.

The best damage for XI7's is 3 damage after a brace. Any less and you are not doing much economically.

I still prefer AP on my MC30's. But that's just my feelings.

I don't see much AP/ECM/XI7 when I play tournaments. Yet.

Which is really surprising considering when I first read XI7s, I instantly bought 3 Nebs.

On HTT vs XI7:

I'll take the HTT over the XI7 on larger ships, but the XI7 is better with smaller ships with less dice to throw. I think it hits a break even point with medium ships, but there's a lot of variance there and I don't have time today to chart it all out.

Here's a quick breakdown as to why I like it on larger ships. ISDs and MC80s have the potential to throw out between 8-10 points of damage in a single shot: with the right admirals and upgrades I don't think that's an unreasonable amount to expect. With HTTs, either a brace or some other combination against 10pts nets you 1-4 points of hull damage past shields, while a brace + redirect 1 gives you one shield facing dropped, maybe 1 hull damage. Against 8 pts HTTs get you 0-2 hull points but always at least drop a shield facing, while brace + redirect 1 only drops a shield completely against two 3 shield facings.

At higher damage outputs, HTTs are clear winners. Yes, APs throw a huge monkey wrench into that and XI7s will be more reliable at dropping shield facings in that situation, but that's a chance I'm willing to take. If they spend 6 points on a ship to slow down my killing it, so be it, I'll either focus on it to wear it out or ignore it for a turn and wipe out the rest of their unprotected fleet. If they spend 6 points on ALL their ships, that's in my favor as well.

Once you get into lower damage outputs, though, the XI7s are clear winners. Against 4 pts of damage, an HTT brace whittles down a single shield facing, but a redirect makes it mostly irrelevant compared to the XI7s that will reliably focus damage into the targeted zone and wear it down, even when bracing and redirecting (which has the additional effect of your opponent spending two defense tokens instead of one).

That's my quickie breakdown of it, though, which is also slightly biased by the awesome rolls I got with an Ackbar Defiance with HTTs that totally wrecked another MC80 in two shots.

XI7s are superior to HTTs in every way if Brace is not an option.

Example 1:

With brace, 8 damage inflicted, given Brace as the only option, you're looking at 4 damage to that hull zone.

With brace, 8 damage inflicted, given Brace and Redirect, you're looking at 3 damage to that hull zone.

Example 2:

With no brace, 8 damage inflicted, HTTs will do whatever damage minus the redirect (so in the case of a full ISD, shooting at the front), you're doing 1 damage to the hull.

With no brace, 8 damage inflicted, XI7s will do 3 damage to the hull.

Example 3:

With no brace, on the same target ISD next round, with 8 damage inflicted, HTTs will do whatever damage minus the redirect, so 5 damage after redirect to the rest of the side shields.

With no brace, on the same target ISD next round, with 8 damage inflicted, XI7s will do 7 damage to the hull.

Therefore, XI7s are superior on ships that can reliably lock down Brace, or force situations where Brace can be lost (such as Intel Officer), Home One to hand out accuracies, or when ECM is not an option.

HTTs are worse than XI7s in almost every situation. If the HTTs just flat out reduced the effectiveness of Brace like XI7s do for Redirect they would be great, as is I doubt I'd ever take them as the game currently stands.

I'm picking up on a recent episode of Intensify Forward Firepower , which discussed the long-storied duality of the Advanced Projectors vs. the XI7 Turbolasers .

As an exclusively Imperial player, I essentially ignored the debate, because I didn't have either of these in my collection, and Advanced Projectors were the type of upgrade that I couldn't take anyway. There was also the fact that I argued that you could safely collect only one faction and have sufficient range of choice to play competitively.

And then I ran into the AP spam. Three @^%^#$%ing Assault Frigates, all loaded with APs. Not just once, but time and time again. So, I finally broke down and bought a Nebulon B to get my hands on an XI7 (and another Intel Officer).

That history told, I'm now wondering if these two cards create a reaction with one another. Will more XI7s hitting the table cause fewer APs to appear as the XI7s nullify much of their utility? (People adapting their builds to their environment.) Will that then also reduce the need for XI7s, making them appear less often, and therefore more likely to make APs better again?

If not, should I get yet another Nebulon B to get yet another XI7 turbolaser? I already have my Space Rocks , so I don't really need more Neb B wrecks decorating my debris fields.

I'm actually pondering starting a rebel collection (getting one of each rebel xpac) just to have access to cards like XI7s despite the fact that my roommate has all the rebel stuff. I want some of those cards accessible for my fleet building. And who knows...maybe...just maybe...I want to be rebellious from time to time without using his stuff.

That said, do you actually limit your fleet builds by the number cards of a given type you have at your disposal?

My roommate and I don't. We only care whether or not you have the card at all. We consider it perfectly fair to have one copy of a card, but to apply that card to whatever ships spent the points to equip it so long as it is declared what ships have the upgrade in question at the start of the game. Upgrade slots and faction restrictions applying as usual of course.

Basically, the way we see it is vaguely like 40K wargear. Can your ship carry it? Do you own it? Did you pay the points to equip it? If you answered yes to all three of those questions, yes your ship can have it, but you must designate what ships are carrying it right from the outset.

I even arrange my ship cards to make it as clear as possible what upgrades are "shared" between ships when I don't have enough cards to adequately give one to each upgraded ship.

I have yet to find any hard component limitation rule that says that we can't do this.

I'll allow proxies in any non-tournament game. It's less fun for everyone if someone's fleet is weaker just because they can't afford 3-4 MC30s.

As to the actual topic (remember that?) looks like I need to give XI7s another chance, though I'm usually running smaller ships that don't benefit as much. Playing around with a support-heavy MC80 backed up by three TRCRs & a fleet of A-Wings.

MC80

Dodonna
Raymus

Engine Techs

ECMs

Ion Cannon Batteries

XI7

3x TRCR

6x A-Wing

Still some points left to toy with.

I'll allow proxies in any non-tournament game. It's less fun for everyone if someone's fleet is weaker just because they can't afford 3-4 MC30s.

As to the actual topic (remember that?) looks like I need to give XI7s another chance, though I'm usually running smaller ships that don't benefit as much. Playing around with a support-heavy MC80 backed up by three TRCRs & a fleet of A-Wings.

MC80

Dodonna

Raymus

Engine Techs

ECMs

Ion Cannon Batteries

XI7

3x TRCR

6x A-Wing

Still some points left to toy with.

We don't even proxy per se. We just say, "these (X number of) ships have this (shiny new card) upgrade,' when we don't have enough copies of it to spread around. We do, of course, make sure at least one copy of the card hits the table if not more.

And when in doubt, we just keep our fleet list handy for reference.

Old habits from our 40K days.

I'm a Grade A idiot sometimes so I need actual cards next to each one of my ships to remind me of who has what. Even a slip of paper that says "TRC" is usually enough. To each their own, if you can remember with only one card, more power to you.

I'm a Grade A idiot sometimes so I need actual cards next to each one of my ships to remind me of who has what. Even a slip of paper that says "TRC" is usually enough. To each their own, if you can remember with only one card, more power to you .

Oh, I wouldn't go that far. I put out as many copies as I have when I can, but I try to arrange my ship cards to help me remember which ones are shared. For instance ( purely demonstrative fabrication follows):

(Demolisher card) GSD CARD ( Rapid Reload Card ) GSD CARD (Insidious card)

In the example above the left GSD card has the Demolisher title but shares a Rapid Reload Card with the right GSD card which has its own Insidious title.

So when I arrange them on the table this way, I just make sure my opponent knows that the upgrade card(s) between both ships are shared/used by both ships.

This doesn't always help or work, particularly when dealing with cards that exhaust/tap on use, but we generally find ways to compensate.

It can be a useful method to save space when table size is limited as well.

We're generally a bunch of old bastards playing against each other... So we don't proxy... Because none of us can remember anything. So both for ourselves and for our opponents , we have the Cards...

That, and none of us can be arsed creating our own proxies, as well...

XI7s are superior to HTTs in every way if Brace is not an option.

Example 1:

With brace, 8 damage inflicted, given Brace as the only option, you're looking at 4 damage to that hull zone.

With brace, 8 damage inflicted, given Brace and Redirect, you're looking at 3 damage to that hull zone.

Example 2:

With no brace, 8 damage inflicted, HTTs will do whatever damage minus the redirect (so in the case of a full ISD, shooting at the front), you're doing 1 damage to the hull.

With no brace, 8 damage inflicted, XI7s will do 3 damage to the hull.

Example 3:

With no brace, on the same target ISD next round, with 8 damage inflicted, HTTs will do whatever damage minus the redirect, so 5 damage after redirect to the rest of the side shields.

With no brace, on the same target ISD next round, with 8 damage inflicted, XI7s will do 7 damage to the hull.

Therefore, XI7s are superior on ships that can reliably lock down Brace, or force situations where Brace can be lost (such as Intel Officer), Home One to hand out accuracies, or when ECM is not an option.

You're stating that XI7s are superior in a situation that favors them. I will concede that larger ships typically have only one brace and multiple redirects, so locking down that brace is easier, but in your above situation if the target has access to all of their defense tokens (which happens a fair amount of the time, at least on my rolls), the following happens:

1) HTTs deal 8 damage, braced to 4, wiping out the front shield. The second hit for 8 damage is braced for 4 hull so they take 4 damage. (The target could use redirect as in your example to take 1 hull from the first shot, then 4 with a brace for a total of 5 hull damage)

2) XI7s deal 8 damage, braced to 4 with 1 redirected. The front shield has 1 left and the side has 2, 0 damage. The second hit does 8, again braced to 4 with 1 redirected and deals 2 hull damage.

Which puts HTTs over the top. I think what we're seeing here is the rock-scissor-paper of Armada in effect: HTTs vs. ECM are superior to XI7s, but APs stop HTTs dead. XI7s make a mockery of APs, but against ECM they fall short when brace comes back in.

We're generally a bunch of old bastards playing against each other... So we don't proxy... Because none of us can remember anything. So both for ourselves and for our opponents , we have the Cards...

That, and none of us can be arsed creating our own proxies, as well...

I could print off proxy cards...but eeennngh...effort.

(that and printer ink is extortion)

So I make do with half-assed organizational skills.