Pretty sure they wanted the forward decloak to function the same as the sideways decloaks, which have always been described as following the same rules as barrel rolls. Since boosts and rolls both have essentially the same requierments and restrictions it prevents anyone from arguing that the forward decloak was somehow different from the sideways ones.

Hey guys my card says " when you reveal a green maneuver you may perform a free barrel roll action" so if I have two stress tokens, perform a green maneuver to get rid of one ST can still barrel roll and then attack?

cypherx32: No, because of the intersection of these three facts.

First, effects that trigger when your maneuver is revealed, like BB-8, happen before you execute the maneuver, so before the maneuver clears stress.

Second, a green maneuver only clears one stress.

Third, any amount of stress prevents you from taking any actions, even free actions granted by an ability.

If you start the turn with one stress and execute a green maneuver, you'll be able to do your normal action, but not the free barrel roll from BB-8.

I'm sure in the ref book itbsays explicit that boosting and rolling are always actions and never manuevers.

I'm sure in the ref book itbsays explicit that boosting and rolling are always actions and never manuevers.

What the rules say is...

Performing a barrel roll does not count as executing a maneuver.

Performing a boost does not count as executing a maneuver.

It says nothing about them always being an action.

But they are listed under the actions section, if they cannot be manuevers then they must be actions right? Isn't this why they changed several cards to read "perform a free xxx action..." As opposed to "perform a boost"... ??

Aren't both boost and barrel roll found on your action bar? Also, the EU card adds the boost icon to your action bar. If they aren't actions then what the heck are they?

if they cannot be manuevers then they must be actions right?

No they don't have to be actions, decloaking is neither an action or a maneuver. Yes you currently have barrel roll and boost actions, but the actual act of performing them are not actions any more than a focus token is an action. The action is what allows you perform that activity or get a token.

There is nothing in the rules that say a boost or barrel roll must be an action... So there can be future upgrades that allow you to perform a boost or barrel roll and not have be an action.

Isn't this why they changed several cards to read "perform a free xxx action..." As opposed to "perform a boost"... ??

It's much more likely they did so, to prevent ships from taking two barrel roll or two boosts in the same turn. Being able to do is a hugely powerful thing.

That said, per the rules decloaking is performing a boost or barrel roll without it being an action.

When a ship decloaks, it must choose one of the following effects:

1. Perform a barrel roll using the [ 2] maneuver template.

2. Perform a boost using the [ 2] maneuver template.

So there's at least one case where a ship can barrel roll or boost without it being an action.

Also, the EU card adds the boost icon to your action bar.

That allows you to perform a boost using PtL, if it wasn't added to your action bar you couldn't push to boost.

I still read this as using an existing game mechanic to easily explain a new game mechanic, not suggesting barrel rolls and boosts are the actually non-action being taken.

I still read this as using an existing game mechanic to easily explain a new game mechanic

Then it should be worded differently. Could just as easily use the text from how to perform a barrel roll instead of calling it a barrel roll.

A barrel roll is nothing more than a activity following a couple steps. Just like using a focus token is.

If it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck and is actually called a duck....

... then it should make itself scarce during duck hunting season.

But they are listed under the actions section, if they cannot be manuevers then they must be actions right? Isn't this why they changed several cards to read "perform a free xxx action..." As opposed to "perform a boost"... ??

Aren't both boost and barrel roll found on your action bar? Also, the EU card adds the boost icon to your action bar. If they aren't actions then what the heck are they?

There are many game mechanics used within the game that can be an action or not. Boost, Barrel Roll, Acquire a Target Lock, Assign a Focus token, to name a few. They are referenced in their associated rules and via some card abilities and are not considered an action for specific cases. But when they are defined as an action, it then serves to restrict their use (such as once per turn, and not when stressed).

There is nothing in the rules that say a boost or barrel roll must be an action... So there can be future upgrades that allow you to perform a boost or barrel roll and not have be an action.

For balance reasons, though, it will likely never happen, as you could potentially use such an upgrade to boost and/or barrel roll twice in a turn. Which, as we learned from Vader and the original Expert Handling, is all kinds of broken.

... then it should make itself scarce during duck hunting season.

But they are listed under the actions section, if they cannot be manuevers then they must be actions right? Isn't this why they changed several cards to read "perform a free xxx action..." As opposed to "perform a boost"... ??

Aren't both boost and barrel roll found on your action bar? Also, the EU card adds the boost icon to your action bar. If they aren't actions then what the heck are they?

There are many game mechanics used within the game that can be an action or not. Boost, Barrel Roll, Acquire a Target Lock, Assign a Focus token, to name a few. They are referenced in their associated rules and via some card abilities and are not considered an action for specific cases. But when they are defined as an action, it then serves to restrict their use (such as once per turn, and not when stressed).

... SOOOOOO, to get my brain wrapped round this: BB-8 allows a barrel roll if a green manuver is revealed, and If in a ship with the Barrel Roll action available (bar or card granted) you can barrel roll AGAIN as your action?

HMMMMMMM.

... then it should make itself scarce during duck hunting season.

But they are listed under the actions section, if they cannot be manuevers then they must be actions right? Isn't this why they changed several cards to read "perform a free xxx action..." As opposed to "perform a boost"... ??

Aren't both boost and barrel roll found on your action bar? Also, the EU card adds the boost icon to your action bar. If they aren't actions then what the heck are they?

There are many game mechanics used within the game that can be an action or not. Boost, Barrel Roll, Acquire a Target Lock, Assign a Focus token, to name a few. They are referenced in their associated rules and via some card abilities and are not considered an action for specific cases. But when they are defined as an action, it then serves to restrict their use (such as once per turn, and not when stressed).

... SOOOOOO, to get my brain wrapped round this: BB-8 allows a barrel roll if a green manuver is revealed, and If in a ship with the Barrel Roll action available (bar or card granted) you can barrel roll AGAIN as your action?

HMMMMMMM.

Nope. BB-8 allows a free barrel roll action, so you can't perform a barrel roll action again later in the turn. You must look for the "action" keyword on the cards.

How about: Decloaking does involve either a barrel roll or a boost, but does not involve a barrel roll or boost Action (thus not preventing another boost or barrel roll later in the round). For exactly the same reasons that acquiring a target lock is distinct from a target lock action.

How about: Decloaking does involve either a barrel roll or a boost, but does not involve a barrel roll or boost Action (thus not preventing another boost or barrel roll later in the round). For exactly the same reasons that acquiring a target lock is distinct from a target lock action.

Aaaand.... We loop back around to the argument on the first page of the thread.

How about: Decloaking does involve either a barrel roll or a boost, but does not involve a barrel roll or boost Action (thus not preventing another boost or barrel roll later in the round). For exactly the same reasons that acquiring a target lock is distinct from a target lock action.

Aaaand.... We loop back around to the argument on the first page of the thread.

Would now be the right time to derail it with a bacon-related comment?

How about: Decloaking does involve either a barrel roll or a boost, but does not involve a barrel roll or boost Action (thus not preventing another boost or barrel roll later in the round). For exactly the same reasons that acquiring a target lock is distinct from a target lock action.

Aaaand.... We loop back around to the argument on the first page of the thread.

Would now be the right time to derail it with a bacon-related comment?

*perks up* Did someone offer bacon?

Oh great, this thread is over.

The breakfast crew is going to come in and hog all the posts.

Oh great, this thread is over.

The breakfast crew is going to come in and hog all the posts.

The belly-meat of a hog, specifically.

Being bacon.

Oh great, this thread is over.

The breakfast crew is going to come in and hog all the posts.

The belly-meat of a hog, specifically.

Being bacon.

Or you could stop being so Americocentric in your interpretation of bacon and also allow for fatty meat from the back as well.

Also per USDA RAW it's "swine" not "hog".

Thread derailed - Mission Accomplished!

You have thoroughly scrambled the thread with your ham-fisted efforts at derailment.

Its OK though, I guess. We were waffling back and forth a bit before hand so I guess the thread was over. Easy to see how it could be dragged off topic.

Might be able to get it back on topics though by talking about stress hogs.

You have thoroughly scrambled the thread with your ham-fisted efforts at derailment.

Its OK though, I guess. We were waffling back and forth a bit before hand so I guess the thread was over. Easy to see how it could be dragged off topic.

Might be able to get it back on topics though by talking about stress hogs.

Or the Punishing Bagel.

How about: Decloaking does involve either a barrel roll or a boost, but does not involve a barrel roll or boost Action (thus not preventing another boost or barrel roll later in the round). For exactly the same reasons that acquiring a target lock is distinct from a target lock action.

Aaaand.... We loop back around to the argument on the first page of the thread.

Would now be the right time to derail it with a bacon-related comment?

Mmmmm....bacon