Almost all. The best stress generator in the game - R3-A2 - isn't. I don't have a problem with that either, as it goes.

What are we disputing here exactly? It all seems a bit non sequiter. My only point was that there has been some bleed of unique designs from imperial ships (bombs, swarm, dodging) but not much from rebel (tank, synergy, regen). That's okay, though, in my opinion, because the game is well balanced and factions have retained their style. Which part are you disagreeing with?

gotta say, anyone who believes the rebels approach Imperials because of the Z-95 are really missing the point

the Tie Fighter is nothing like the Z-95 apart from their cost because the Tie Fighter is actually incredibly maneuverable and prone to some miserably catastrophic dice failure. The z-95 is a stiff piece of **** that provides some flimsy but at least more reliable durability

Ties lend themselves to mini-swarms and swarms, due to their excellent maneuverability and the presence of force multipliers such as Howlie. Z-95s only lend themselves to mini-swarms, being far too stiff and having no synergy prior to tracers (which are still incredibly stiff upgrades compared to howlie)

as for arc-dodgers, rebs don't really have that. they have Jake Farrel...that's it. Rebel arc-dodging is more turrets not having to give a **** about facing, or shenanigans on the level of sensors, SLAM or BB-8 "dodging" by smashing into the face of their nearest attackers (which is an awesome fun tactic, btw). Scum in general especially K4/Stim/and character Vipers & especially Guri, are far closer to these rebel ships than imp interceptors are. In fact, only ACD Whisper isn't left wallowing at the capricious mercy of green dice after a block.

as for arc-dodgers, rebs don't really have that. they have Jake Farrel...that's it. Rebel arc-dodging is more turrets not having to give a **** about facing, or shenanigans on the level of sensors, SLAM or BB-8 "dodging" by smashing into the face of their nearest attackers (which is an awesome fun tactic, btw). Scum in general especially K4/Stim/and character Vipers & especially Guri, are far closer to these rebel ships than imp interceptors are. In fact, only ACD Whisper isn't left wallowing at the capricious mercy of green dice after a block.

Any dude with a boost and especially a dude with ability to boost and\or barrel roll before move and\or after move...

Is an arcdodger

Yesterday Guri soloed 3 Advanced and palpmobile.

BUT if she finds someone PS6+ she can walk out of window.

Because all her arcdodginess is sensor+PTL...

Better check your Imperial Privilege

Okay jokes aside, diversity in factions bring variety and if done well it can also bring balance. You will have one faction which may be good at some things but also vulnerable in others, and keeping the traits same among all the ships in that faction can be easy to design for. Now do mechanics fit theme, not always You had B-wings which were good at taking down starfighters and TIE-Advances which were outclassed by X-wings. Not to mean that the devs can find mechanics to fit the themes within the factions.

as for arc-dodgers, rebs don't really have that. they have Jake Farrel...that's it. Rebel arc-dodging is more turrets not having to give a **** about facing, or shenanigans on the level of sensors, SLAM or BB-8 "dodging" by smashing into the face of their nearest attackers (which is an awesome fun tactic, btw). Scum in general especially K4/Stim/and character Vipers & especially Guri, are far closer to these rebel ships than imp interceptors are. In fact, only ACD Whisper isn't left wallowing at the capricious mercy of green dice after a block.

Any dude with a boost and especially a dude with ability to boost and\or barrel roll before move and\or after move...

Is an arcdodger

Yesterday Guri soloed 3 Advanced and palpmobile.

BUT if she finds someone PS6+ she can walk out of window.

Because all her arcdodginess is sensor+PTL...

or don't try to make an arc-dodger out of something that simply isn't

Guri's sole purpose in life is to give zero ****

no actions? no problem! focus + predator for fully modified attacks. Add jammers for ultimate troll

Xizor makes a more effective arc-dodger @ ps 9 (good ole V.I), though really he also shouldn't be giving a **** so long as his ability is active.

also, boost alone does not make you an arc-dodger; it makes you a blocker (ala the glorious prototype pilot A-wing). Without barrel-roll or a turret, it is very difficult to dodge arcs without giving up your own shot. This is why the only legit Rebel arc-dodger is Jake Farrel, while ships such as Sensor Corran or BB-8 Poe can either arc-dodge like mini-prenerf-phantoms (yay pre-move barrel-roll) or "dodge" by smashing their face into yours with similar disregard as predator + jammer Guri

as for arc-dodgers, rebs don't really have that. they have Jake Farrel...that's it. Rebel arc-dodging is more turrets not having to give a **** about facing, or shenanigans on the level of sensors, SLAM or BB-8 "dodging" by smashing into the face of their nearest attackers (which is an awesome fun tactic, btw). Scum in general especially K4/Stim/and character Vipers & especially Guri, are far closer to these rebel ships than imp interceptors are. In fact, only ACD Whisper isn't left wallowing at the capricious mercy of green dice after a block.

Any dude with a boost and especially a dude with ability to boost and\or barrel roll before move and\or after move...

Is an arcdodger

Yesterday Guri soloed 3 Advanced and palpmobile.

BUT if she finds someone PS6+ she can walk out of window.

Because all her arcdodginess is sensor+PTL...

or don't try to make an arc-dodger out of something that simply isn't

Guri's sole purpose in life is to give zero ****

no actions? no problem! focus + predator for fully modified attacks. Add jammers for ultimate troll

Xizor makes a more effective arc-dodger @ ps 9 (good ole V.I), though really he also shouldn't be giving a **** so long as his ability is active.

also, boost alone does not make you an arc-dodger; it makes you a blocker (ala the glorious prototype pilot A-wing). Without barrel-roll or a turret, it is very difficult to dodge arcs without giving up your own shot. This is why the only legit Rebel arc-dodger is Jake Farrel, while ships such as Sensor Corran or BB-8 Poe can either arc-dodge like mini-prenerf-phantoms (yay pre-move barrel-roll) or "dodge" by smashing their face into yours with similar disregard as predator + jammer Guri

Starvyper needs 1 of 2 "fixes" to be a real arcdodger

1. Get a proper pilot. BS5? No, really, it's Biggs level! BS7? Dash was limited to PS7 to make it possible to donut-hole him! Xizor was too afraid to give it out to real pilots? or maybe Zann was not bright enough as well?

2. (unlimely) Give it a greener dial. It has X-wing greens. Heavy_dense_fighter_greens...

the Starviper doesn't need any fixes (except for the generics, because goddamnit FFG we thought you learned from the Defender/E-wing), it just needs to stop being used as something it is not

it's an uber-B-wing, not Soontir Fell. Vipers don't go super boost + roll --> focus arc-dodging everyone, and soontir doesn't smash head first into the first available block, shrug his shoulders, and then effortlessly survive the incoming fire with action-independent ability (unless he k-turns into a block, a viable if seldom used tactic) + system slot

The thing is, we're 8 waves in. As the game has grown in age, complexity and expansions, the lines between the factions will increasingly become blurred. You can't really have a thriving and sustainable game without that happening.

Nonsense. Starcraft has 3 factions, with varying playstyles. Magic has 5 colours, each with their own distinct flavour. There are tons of games with asymmetrical factions.

If Starcraft had to release 1-3 new units for each faction 2-3 times per year, then it would be much more difficult to keep the factions "pure," if you will. Comparing it to X-wing is ridiculous.

the Starviper doesn't need any fixes (except for the generics, because goddamnit FFG we thought you learned from the Defender/E-wing), it just needs to stop being used as something it is not

it's an uber-B-wing, not Soontir Fell. Vipers don't go super boost + roll --> focus arc-dodging everyone, and soontir doesn't smash head first into the first available block, shrug his shoulders, and then effortlessly survive the incoming fire with action-independent ability (unless he k-turns into a block, a viable if seldom used tactic) + system slot

If it gets PS8 pilots, it will be an arcdodger for close combat massacre.

Right now it's a ship that can't fulfill any role perfectly and as such has no niche.

The Starviper isn't an arc dodger in the same sense that Vader, Phantoms and the Interceptors are, at least. No other faction really has the tech to pull of what they do, because what makes them function is actually a combination of their action economy, ability to choose from a large number of possible maneuvers while taking advantage of that economy each turn (Something Corran can't do, because he has no green turns), and enough offensive punch to function at long range (something A-wings don't)*. So, I guess I wouldn't say that other factions have no Arc dodgers, but rather that their arc dodgers don't function at all the same way (Apart from Jake Farrel, and even he's a little awkward with those piddly two attack dice);

-Corran can kind of dodge arcs, but his lousy greens mean he's really bad at it. Advanced Sensors+PTL is cute and helps him out in that regard, but at the cost of having poor action economy whenever he executes a non-green maneuver.

-Generic A-wings are too low PS to be true arc dodgers, while non-Jake Uniques are all overpriced

-Guri can and does dodge arcs at times, but she really needs to be at close range to do it, which means she fares poorly against formations. Xixor on the other hand needs to be inside a formation until the endgame begins.

-PTL+BB-8 gets hit even harder by stress than regular PTL mechanics because it takes an extra turn for it to come back online. On the plus side, it does turn Jake and Wedge into miniature-Phantoms, but they do better at closing the distance than knife-fighting**.

*It was explained a while back when people were discussing autothrusters, but even before their release, Range 3 was actually the Interceptor's preferred engagement space because they could still reliably hurt most ships with their 3 attack dice, but most ships struggle to get through 4 modified green dice.

**BB-8+Boost is great if you've got the room to execute a barrel roll, a boost, and your maneuver, but that's a lot of forward displacement. Decloak+1 hard, on the other hand, practically lets you turn on a dime.

the Starviper doesn't need any fixes (except for the generics, because goddamnit FFG we thought you learned from the Defender/E-wing), it just needs to stop being used as something it is not

it's an uber-B-wing, not Soontir Fell. Vipers don't go super boost + roll --> focus arc-dodging everyone, and soontir doesn't smash head first into the first available block, shrug his shoulders, and then effortlessly survive the incoming fire with action-independent ability (unless he k-turns into a block, a viable if seldom used tactic) + system slot

If it gets PS8 pilots, it will be an arcdodger for close combat massacre.

Right now it's a ship that can't fulfill any role perfectly and as such has no niche.

why? it has PS 9

Xizor gives zero ***** about his ept slot when you have FCS shoring in for predator, so slap V.I on that bad boy

the Viper has a role, it's an elite "I don't give a ****" ship

it's a B-wing that flies like a dream and can actually take a **** hit

you don't need to worry about arc-dodging if you engineer a scenario in which you can take a hit. For Xizor, this often means just "don't be in range 1 of every enemy possible" because his free basically-evade per attack is very powerful, especially on top of 3 native agility and auto-thrusters

it's a powerful all-game ship that will serve both in the early and late game, and Xizor in particular will almost always be there for the late game (because no one in their right mind will shoot him first)

plus, Vipers have the added benefit of caring far less about stress than your typical PTL ace. With Heaver having dubbed the r3-a2 TLT BTL-a4 Y-wing "the best rebel ship," you can bet your ass that's going to be a relevant advantage real soon

the Starviper doesn't need any fixes (except for the generics, because goddamnit FFG we thought you learned from the Defender/E-wing), it just needs to stop being used as something it is not

it's an uber-B-wing, not Soontir Fell. Vipers don't go super boost + roll --> focus arc-dodging everyone, and soontir doesn't smash head first into the first available block, shrug his shoulders, and then effortlessly survive the incoming fire with action-independent ability (unless he k-turns into a block, a viable if seldom used tactic) + system slot

If it gets PS8 pilots, it will be an arcdodger for close combat massacre.

Right now it's a ship that can't fulfill any role perfectly and as such has no niche.

why? it has PS 9

Xizor gives zero ***** about his ept slot when you have FCS shoring in for predator, so slap V.I on that bad boy

the Viper has a role, it's an elite "I don't give a ****" ship

it's a B-wing that flies like a dream and can actually take a **** hit

you don't need to worry about arc-dodging if you engineer a scenario in which you can take a hit. For Xizor, this often means just "don't be in range 1 of every enemy possible" because his free basically-evade per attack is very powerful, especially on top of 3 native agility and auto-thrusters

it's a powerful all-game ship that will serve both in the early and late game, and Xizor in particular will almost always be there for the late game (because no one in their right mind will shoot him first)

plus, Vipers have the added benefit of caring far less about stress than your typical PTL ace. With Heaver having dubbed the r3-a2 TLT BTL-a4 Y-wing "the best rebel ship," you can bet your ass that's going to be a relevant advantage real soon

Take VI and you're PTL-less.

Xizor can send but a single damage towards an ally, so he's not "go ahead, try to shoot me"

and FCS still requires you to lead your target (and you have 1 action, yes) focus or evade are always needed.

4 hulls and 1 shield?

Doesn't sound B-wing to me.

Xizor needs to land shots himself. And try to stay out of arcs.

That's what is usually called "arcdodger"

As a great fan of PTL and having acess to merc 5-PS EPT pilots I'm taking a Wingman with me.

And AS lets you "mini-whisper" and use PTL without stressing yourself.

So I'll state it again.

Starviper is fun, but not a tourney-level ship, because it's lacking a PS8 pilot. Great if your local meta is not about PS race, but if it is... Go take some other ships.

*prays to the Printer Gods for Underworld Starviper+Scyk pack with boosting scyks and PS8 pilots.

first, stop putting PTL on vipers. You don't need it, and they don't work well with it. Sure, you can if you want, but they're not going to fit the mold as well as you'd want. It simply doesn't have the greens, and it doesn't have the evade action

second, Xizor's ability is one uncancelled result per attack. Multiple attacks mean you can divert multiple instance of damage across multiple allies. So he turns into 4 hull, 1 shield, + 1 "shield" (can pass crits) every time he is shot. That is a stupidly durable ship, especially if green dice spike favorably.

third, the Starviper's dial is, quite literally, the B-wing's dial if you bleached all the red maneuvers and added two segnors.

so I'll say it again, the Starviper needs nothing except a greater understanding of how it's supposed to be used (and a point reduction for its generics, OFC). It's not Soontir nor Corran, it is Guri or Xizor and they demand different playstyles

The PS1s are blockers on par with A-wings. With extra firepower.

first, stop putting PTL on vipers. You don't need it, and they don't work well with it. Sure, you can if you want, but they're not going to fit the mold as well as you'd want.

second, Xizor's ability is one uncancelled result per attack. Multiple attacks mean you can divert multiple instance of damage across multiple allies. So he turns into 4 hull, 1 shield, + 1 "shield" (can pass crits) every time he is shot. That is a stupidly durable ship, especially if green dice spike favorably.

third, the Starviper's dial is, quite literally, the B-wing's dial if you bleached all the red maneuvers and added two segnors.

so I'll say it again, the Starviper needs nothing except a greater understanding of how it's supposed to be used. It's not Soontir nor Corran, it is Guri or Xizor and they demand different playstyles

FFG tried hard to not make a powerhouse. They succeeded.

Per attack. If you're sitting there with no tokens, because you derp-trained into somebody, you're toasted.

never trust the green dice...

Boosting B-wing. *lets that sink in*

Anything with EPT+Sensor sensors requires just a little bit of greens and PS and can be an arcdodger.

Let's not compare the poor starvyper with Corran, okay?

It makes the Starviper roll tears

25 points or 15 points? For a blocker. With less maneuvers, BUT a huge 3 attacks?

Starviper generics look out of place

first, stop putting PTL on vipers. You don't need it, and they don't work well with it. Sure, you can if you want, but they're not going to fit the mold as well as you'd want.

second, Xizor's ability is one uncancelled result per attack. Multiple attacks mean you can divert multiple instance of damage across multiple allies. So he turns into 4 hull, 1 shield, + 1 "shield" (can pass crits) every time he is shot. That is a stupidly durable ship, especially if green dice spike favorably.

third, the Starviper's dial is, quite literally, the B-wing's dial if you bleached all the red maneuvers and added two segnors.

so I'll say it again, the Starviper needs nothing except a greater understanding of how it's supposed to be used. It's not Soontir nor Corran, it is Guri or Xizor and they demand different playstyles

FFG tried hard to not make a powerhouse. They succeeded.

Per attack. If you're sitting there with no tokens, because you derp-trained into somebody, you're toasted.

never trust the green dice...

a very solid piece of wisdom

trust, instead, in Xizor's action-independent (works even if you derp-train), dice-independent and round-independent ability

though really, you should practice not to derp train with Xizor in the first place dude's got all the speed 1 maneuvers to avoid such collisions, and a choice of red maneuvers to match

first, stop putting PTL on vipers. You don't need it, and they don't work well with it. Sure, you can if you want, but they're not going to fit the mold as well as you'd want.

second, Xizor's ability is one uncancelled result per attack. Multiple attacks mean you can divert multiple instance of damage across multiple allies. So he turns into 4 hull, 1 shield, + 1 "shield" (can pass crits) every time he is shot. That is a stupidly durable ship, especially if green dice spike favorably.

third, the Starviper's dial is, quite literally, the B-wing's dial if you bleached all the red maneuvers and added two segnors.

so I'll say it again, the Starviper needs nothing except a greater understanding of how it's supposed to be used. It's not Soontir nor Corran, it is Guri or Xizor and they demand different playstyles

FFG tried hard to not make a powerhouse. They succeeded.

Per attack. If you're sitting there with no tokens, because you derp-trained into somebody, you're toasted.

never trust the green dice...

a very solid piece of wisdom

trust, instead, in Xizor's action-independent (works even if you derp-train), dice-independent and round-independent ability

though really, you should practice not to derp train with Xizor in the first place dude's got all the speed 1 maneuvers to avoid such collisions, and a choice of red maneuvers to match

Seeing what PTL+AS Xizor can do if there are no tons of uber-aces on the board, I shall never see him as anything but the epic arcdodge troll.

Xizor not requiring to use his ability even once.

ARCDOGE

if you don't have to use Xizor's ability, why would you Xizor?

unless of course it's never using your ability because your opponent never shoots at you knowing how difficult it is to kill Xizor while his ability is up, essentially giving you the far superior anti-Biggs ability

in all honesty, if you want a PTL Troll then imo bb-8 Poe is far superior

if you don't have to use Xizor's ability, why would you Xizor?

unless of course it's never using your ability because your opponent never shoots at you knowing how difficult it is to kill Xizor while his ability is up, essentially giving you the far superior anti-Biggs ability

in all honesty, if you want a PTL Troll then imo bb-8 Poe is far superior

PS7

And occasionally if the green dice turn on you.

Rebels have the coolest toys, that's a well known fact.

Yeah, they even got a PS8 pilot with ability that synergises with a specific droid, boost and epic level survivability of 6 total HP.

If Poe was PS7 he would see much much less light.

If Xizor had PS8 he would be more popular that brobots.

Reason? Arcdodgewing

if you don't have to use Xizor's ability, why would you Xizor?

unless of course it's never using your ability because your opponent never shoots at you knowing how difficult it is to kill Xizor while his ability is up, essentially giving you the far superior anti-Biggs ability

in all honesty, if you want a PTL Troll then imo bb-8 Poe is far superior

PS7

And occasionally if the green dice turn on you.

Rebels have the coolest toys, that's a well known fact.

Yeah, they even got a PS8 pilot with ability that synergises with a specific droid, boost and epic level survivability of 6 total HP.

If Poe was PS7 he would see much much less light.

If Xizor had PS8 he would be more popular that brobots.

Reason? Arcdodgewing

I heard arc-dodgers were involved creating the ice age, too. floods, volcanoes, plagues.. you name it. and they shot little timmies dog. twice.

also.. you really are free to hate them with a passion, where most folks think they enrich the game. that is okay.

you could try not to mention it in everything you type, though.. it "softens up" everything else you're trying to say.. IMO, of couse, YMMV.

Reason? Arcdodgewing

I heard arc-dodgers were involved creating the ice age, too. floods, volcanoes, plagues.. you name it. and they shot little timmies dog. twice.

also.. you really are free to hate them with a passion, where most folks think they enrich the game. that is okay.

you could try not to mention it in everything you type, though.. it "softens up" everything else you're trying to say.. IMO, of couse, YMMV.

*unpacks another K-wing*

Once upon a time a wise man said X-wing had three "columns" upon which the game rests

Joust

Turret

Arcdodge

Joust>Turret>Arcdodge>Joust

Now when Arcdodge got autothrusters and Turrets started boosting...

Life is miserable for Jousters.

Enrich...

Whisper "Enriched" the meta so hard one time, that FFG had to FAQ him.

Reason? Arcdodgewing

I heard arc-dodgers were involved creating the ice age, too. floods, volcanoes, plagues.. you name it. and they shot little timmies dog. twice.

also.. you really are free to hate them with a passion, where most folks think they enrich the game. that is okay.

you could try not to mention it in everything you type, though.. it "softens up" everything else you're trying to say.. IMO, of couse, YMMV.

*unpacks another K-wing*

Once upon a time a wise man said X-wing had three "columns" upon which the game rests

Joust

Turret

Arcdodge

Joust>Turret>Arcdodge>Joust

Now when Arcdodge got autothrusters and Turrets started boosting...

Life is miserable for Jousters.

Enrich...

Whisper "Enriched" the meta so hard one time, that FFG had to FAQ him.

i believe it was a Whisper Echo list that caused the FAQ to Phantoms, not one but two 4/4/2/2 Pilots.

Reason? Arcdodgewing

I heard arc-dodgers were involved creating the ice age, too. floods, volcanoes, plagues.. you name it. and they shot little timmies dog. twice.

also.. you really are free to hate them with a passion, where most folks think they enrich the game. that is okay.

you could try not to mention it in everything you type, though.. it "softens up" everything else you're trying to say.. IMO, of couse, YMMV.

*unpacks another K-wing*

Once upon a time a wise man said X-wing had three "columns" upon which the game rests

Joust

Turret

Arcdodge

Joust>Turret>Arcdodge>Joust

Now when Arcdodge got autothrusters and Turrets started boosting...

Life is miserable for Jousters.

Enrich...

Whisper "Enriched" the meta so hard one time, that FFG had to FAQ him.

i believe it was a Whisper Echo list that caused the FAQ to Phantoms, not one but two 4/4/2/2 Pilots.

Deci-whisper, actually.

Because the only things Whisper was afraid of was another PS9+ who shot first (HAAAAAAN!)

or Rebel Captive.

Echo wasn't a problem, and (s)he is still fun, not power-gaming pilot

Rebel.... Synergy? Imps have the best synergy in the game with Howlrunner and Emperor.

OP also glossed over crew, which Imperials currently dominate. When was the last time Han, Luke, or Leia were used in a top list?

OP's arc dodging comment is also incorrect. No Rebel aces compare to Fel or Vader.

Hell, Scum even have better non unique astromechs than Rebels. Imperials can tank amazingly with their crew options on Decimator.

Reason? Arcdodgewing

I heard arc-dodgers were involved creating the ice age, too. floods, volcanoes, plagues.. you name it. and they shot little timmies dog. twice.

also.. you really are free to hate them with a passion, where most folks think they enrich the game. that is okay.

you could try not to mention it in everything you type, though.. it "softens up" everything else you're trying to say.. IMO, of couse, YMMV.

*unpacks another K-wing*

Once upon a time a wise man said X-wing had three "columns" upon which the game rests

Joust

Turret

Arcdodge

Joust>Turret>Arcdodge>Joust

Now when Arcdodge got autothrusters and Turrets started boosting...

Life is miserable for Jousters.

Enrich...

Whisper "Enriched" the meta so hard one time, that FFG had to FAQ him.

Turrets have always had boost. Or at least, they've had it since the competitive metagame existed. And autothrusters were created to correct the fact that ships with a native boost action pay a premium for an action that is significantly less valuable against an enemy with the ability to fire outside their firing arc.

So, I'm not sure what you're point is there. Especially when you complain that Xixor would be a terrifying arc dodger if it weren't for other arc dodgers. Are you saying other Arc dodgers are bad because their presence makes your favorite pilot innefective as an arc dodger?

For that matter, the winning list at World's was 2 Jousting ships, a jousting Carry, and one turret, so I don't think Jousting is in a bad place to begin with.