Reason? Arcdodgewing

I heard arc-dodgers were involved creating the ice age, too. floods, volcanoes, plagues.. you name it. and they shot little timmies dog. twice.

also.. you really are free to hate them with a passion, where most folks think they enrich the game. that is okay.

you could try not to mention it in everything you type, though.. it "softens up" everything else you're trying to say.. IMO, of couse, YMMV.

*unpacks another K-wing*

Once upon a time a wise man said X-wing had three "columns" upon which the game rests

Joust

Turret

Arcdodge

Joust>Turret>Arcdodge>Joust

Now when Arcdodge got autothrusters and Turrets started boosting...

Life is miserable for Jousters.

Enrich...

Whisper "Enriched" the meta so hard one time, that FFG had to FAQ him.

Turrets have always had boost. Or at least, they've had it since the competitive metagame existed. And autothrusters were created to correct the fact that ships with a native boost action pay a premium for an action that is significantly less valuable against an enemy with the ability to fire outside their firing arc.

So, I'm not sure what you're point is there. Especially when you complain that Xixor would be a terrifying arc dodger if it weren't for other arc dodgers. Are you saying other Arc dodgers are bad because their presence makes your favorite pilot innefective as an arc dodger?

For that matter, the winning list at World's was 2 Jousting ships, a jousting Carry, and one turret, so I don't think Jousting is in a bad place to begin with.

I was thinking this exactly.

I highly recommend to those who "see" that the grass is clearly greener on "the other side": change your side. if arc-dodgers are so horribly broken, fly them some time. turrets or jousters? the same btw.

take them to a tournament, to regionals, to worlds.. you name it. win everything with it and bath in the following glory. .. you know, like the rest of us does

if rebels/empire/scum is broken - likewise. just fly that horribly broken thing and show everybody how good it really is.

and maybe -maybe- after a few games you might reconsider your point of view. the game is in a very good state ATM, and most people are happy with it. the few that don't should just tinker around with something new, or adjust and develop their old stuff and tactics and most importantly: have fun. nobody likes to play against -that- guy who starts with "well, your stuff is highly broken. I'll play you, but nag about it. constantly."

and like I said - you can always switch and fly that oh-so-horribly-broken-stuff yourself. ;-)

As someone that won 2 local area tournaments with a kath/guri list and once with Kath/2x starvipers. The star viper named pilots are fine. And honestly, I really like the generics too, 27 points isn't bad for a reliable tanky ship especially for ones that can block easily too. Man, I wish you had played around wave 2, that would of been fun to watch on the forums. Ahhh good times.

Forgive this addled droid, but..

Imperials have the almighty Emperor!

- on two sh*tty ships

And Captive/Mara !

- arguably best used on a ship that is currently unreliable in performance (2-4 green dice...)

And Holwrunner!

- 3-4 Hull, always dies first.

And Bombers!

- dud ship

And Punishers!

- dud ship

And Defenders!

- dud ship

And Decimators!

- kamikaze boat extraordinaire

And Firesprays!

- overcosted / never seen

What they really do have is the TIE Adv, TIE, TIE/Fo, Squints (and soon the TIE adv. prototype).

4/12 isn't half bad eh?

Ho ho ho.

howlrunner always dying first speaks far more to the player than the tie fighter

that and bombers and punishers being "dud ships", which is a load of bs

the bombers are very good ships, no duds. they just don't "bomb" enough.

though they do, it's just not that easy to use a bomb/mine than to simply use your primary.

bombers 2 problems are missiles/torps and how to fire them (the mechanic screws with low PS).

else (and ironically), without a payload, they are quite the good jousters.

it just isn't very fluffy (like: at all!) to run them naked.

howlrunner always dying first speaks far more to the player than the tie fighter

that and bombers and punishers being "dud ships", which is a load of bs

On a 30x30 field with 6 stationary obstacles, and say 4-5 moving ones, how would you hide/protect your Howlrunner good Sir?

Keep her in the back? behind obstacles? hah!

And lets pretend I am not even fielding turret(s).

that and bombers and punishers being "dud ships", which is a load of bs

So that is why they are showing up consistently at Premier events.

No wait.

that and bombers and punishers being "dud ships", which is a load of bs

So that is why they are showing up consistently at Premier events.

No wait.

the ships are good, its the munitions they are supposed to be carrying that are garbage.

not every ship needs to be meta redefining to be good.

not every ship needs to be meta redefining to be good.

True,

For me, in order for a ship to be good, it has to be played the way it was designed (in this case, with munitions) and perform consistently.

Bombers clearly don't fit both arguments.

i feel like a list with 4 naked bombers and 3 naked AP's can win with just large amounts of dice thrown.

^streakers ftw

and just to mess with people give one Bomber a Connor Net. because you have 4 points. or cluster mines because you need more 2 dice attacks.

that and bombers and punishers being "dud ships", which is a load of bs

So that is why they are showing up consistently at Premier events.

No wait.

the ships are good, its the munitions they are supposed to be carrying that are garbage.

not every ship needs to be meta redefining to be good.

No, they don't have to be meta defining to be good, but only the most efficient generics are effective right now. With the exception of a few (Ties, Zs, Bs), other generics we're seeing have had fixes (Adv Title, Refit) or make use of recent upgrade cards (TLT, ATs). I think that's just the way the game has gone.

The Tie Bomber isn't awful simply as a jouster, but it's not great either, and it can't match the TIE or FO, for fewer points, so it does need to make use of it's upgrade access to fulfill a role those ships can't. As pointed out, that upgrade access isn't good right now. It should be noted that we did see some of them prior to Wave 4 simply as additions to swarms and or with proxy mines, but they haven't returned yet.

The Punisher was probably in a tough design spot since making it too cheap simply means the bomber isn't worth taking (It's a problem I think they're running into in other situations as well -- knowing that a certain point value may be more appropriate but pointing it correctly essentially would make another ship obsolete, even one that doesn't get played competitively that often). 21 points for a 2 attack ship just hasn't worked (see the Tie Advanced pre fix). So, again we're back to using it for the upgrade slots it offers. and at that point cost, you're simply better off taking a bomber unless you need access to the system slot. If you're just looking at this for it's base value, you're better off with the fixed advanced for the same cost.

Bombers and Punishers are dud ships for 2 reasons:

1.) Since the Phantom the meta has been dominated by high PS Acewing and Turretwing ships. They're decent jousters but the meta has crushed out a lot a normal ships.

2.) Munitions are meh/okay. They're getting there though.

If the meta were truly ace/turret wing, then the punisher can't be a dud

Death rain

Conner nets

Go to town

literally the only ship they don't utterly eviscerate is Han/cheri (though they do set them up for easy focus-fire), which have been conspicuously absent from the top of Worlds as well

If the meta were truly ace/turret wing then the punisher can't be a dud

Death rain

Conner nets

Go to town

literally the only ship they don't utterly eviscerate is Han/cheri (though they do set them up for easy focus-fire), which have been conspicuously absent from the top of Worlds as well

RAC made top 16. There were a few PWT (Solo and RAC) in 32-50 bracket.