I'm not entirely sure what the point of this thread is? BoLS has been running fairly regular X-Wing coverage for a while now (I had an article on there myself when the new core set came out).

Is someone worried that this specific article has a particular point that needs discussed? I'm just not clear?

On the subject of the article's contents. that was an incomplete analysis. for the data to even come close to having meaning we would need at minimum the costs of the bottom 8 lists as well, ideally the costs of all 270 some lists, and THEN analyze performance vs cost. for all we know, the bottom half of the lists were all $400+.

Well, someone already posted the bottom 4 lists that we know of here. The bottom 4 averaged $203.38 and the top 4 averaged $280.68. Top 8 average was $242.03. So far there's a $40-$80 difference between the top and bottom. However, the lower-ranked squad lists have not all been posted, so there is a lot of missing data there.

Just out of curiosity, any idea what the winning netrunner lists cost?

It is a somewhat unfair comparison, given the "subscription" model of LCGs and X-wing needing far less components. 2 Decks for Netrunner tends to be 94 cards.

That said, I know his Corp deck was fairly heavy on the Core set cards.

Well the point of this thread is that in some strange case these forums has become a part (a very small one) of X-wing coverage. It specifically referenced a thread on this forum.

Hmm, ok.

I wonder, wouldn't there be a limit to how much a squad could ever cost? I think it has to peak at some point...

Hypothetical postulation.

3x$20 dollar ship whatever as a base let's say. A fairly standard ship count for any faction and averaging the cost a bit.

Each ship has slots and points left to say buy 5 upgrades. Hypothetical now remember. So 15x upgrades. Let's assume they are each available only in separate packages and two of them only in epic ships but they cook with enough copies. And the other three upgrades only come as singles in a large ship. Hypothetical again here

3x20=60

+2x100=200

+9x40=360

Total 620 bucks potentially for one squad... With a bunch of other stuff. With a little hypothetically insane build. And I doubt that is the actual limit

Well, IF you manage to find a buid that utilizes 15 upgrades all from different packages...

You're cool.

Hardly a real situation

Another thing to consider. How many of these competitors went out and purchased their entire list in one go? I'm willing to bet the pros are just like everyone else and buy most of a wave when it comes out in stores. Granted yes, these guys have to buy doubles of things sometimes to get the cards, but then what? So wave 8 comes out? Does Paul Heaver go out and buy a new B-Wing to run?

Come on. Its a business. We know what the bottom line is. Thankfully FFG seems to want to turn their profit off of a solid product and a valid player community. So... $20 for Star Wars plastic crack is fine by me. A big ship once in a blue moon? Sure.

And yeah BoLs is bunk too BTW. Check out their trigger happy GW news. Its like CS Goto got an internship or something...

I wonder, wouldn't there be a limit to how much a squad could ever cost? I think it has to peak at some point...

Hypothetical postulation.

3x$20 dollar ship whatever as a base let's say. A fairly standard ship count for any faction and averaging the cost a bit.

Each ship has slots and points left to say buy 5 upgrades. Hypothetical now remember. So 15x upgrades. Let's assume they are each available only in separate packages and two of them only in epic ships but they cook with enough copies. And the other three upgrades only come as singles in a large ship. Hypothetical again here

3x20=60

+2x100=200

+9x40=360

Total 620 bucks potentially for one squad... With a bunch of other stuff. With a little hypothetically insane build. And I doubt that is the actual limit

Hypothetically, let's say there's an ace pack where the Tie Bomber gets a "Tie Shuttle" upgrade, for a pair of crew slots.

Equally hypothetically, lets say someone wanted to run an all tie shuttle list.

30+15 for two tie shuttles (I'm assuming 2 titles per pack) x2 for a 4 ship list is 90

Throw Palp on on 1, needing the Raider 100

Agent Callus + Isard on another, for 80+30 (Golzanti+Decimater)

Officer of the Fleet from Shuttle and Mara Jade from phantom... that's another 45

And 2 generics from different Rebel Ace Pack/YT Freighters, for another 60

Hypothetically, I could see such a list running as high as $405

There's also the fact that even at the high end of spending, other games are far more expensive. Granted I have poured an embarrassing amount of money into this game, but I can play just about any viable rebel or scum list I have ever heard of (aside from Z swarms). I am annoyed that I essentially got the corvette for one card (I just don't really enjoy epic games, for that I will play armada), but it is what it is. Not counting the imperial ships that I recently sold off, I have about $1100 (MSRP) of X-Wing stuff. I paid miniature market prices for a lot of it, got some stuff at a Barnes and Noble clearance, and some from a FLGS. My total investment is probably closer to $800. I can play essentially infinite variations of different lists for each faction. If I had the disposable income and the inclination, I could drop over $800 immediately on a new 40k army (Tau Hunter Cadre is $837, not even optimized) and still expect to buy more. Hell, just the best version of the new "optimized stealth cadre" is $279 + tax. Granted, this is an extreme example, but even for, say, a warmachine army, it would cost $2225 to get one of every caster, jack, unit, ua, solo, colossal and battle engine for Cygnar alone. Granted you don't need everything, but you will likely need multiple units of some and some mercs, so it's not all that far off. And warmachine used to be the "cheaper" option compared to 40k. Pretty much the only miniatures games I can conceive of that are:

A) cheaper than X-Wing,

B) not board games, and

C) not collectible (it's hard to accurately gauge cost of heroclix for example because of blind pulls, and I don't think the cost of buying singles for a full team is a fair comparison)

Are Malifaux and Wrath of Kings.

Even those aren't even comparisons. At miniature market prices, one of everything for a Wrath of Kings faction is $150, so to get essentially 2/3 of the available factions (what I outlined above) would be $450. And Wrath is a new game with no expansions yet. It's essentially wave 1. $250 in wave one of X-Wing would have gotten you 4 X wings, 4 ywings, 8 ties and Vader. That's every single viable wave 1 list (and some trash).

A much better example would be, strangely enough, Armada. Even after wave 2 next week, I will have dropped $330 MSRP on the game and be able to run almost any possible rebel 400 point list barring stupid **** like a corvette swarm. Hell, I could run TWO full 400 point rebel lists (possibly three if I go crazy on the upgrades). And that's at full MSRP, which I assume most of us rarely pay (at least not for everything, I throw some love towards the local stores).

TL;DR: yeah, it's expensive. Cheaper than almost every other minis game out there especially when you consider the variety of what you get for your money.

Heck, if the ghost can really be a viable one ship list, that's a $90 list right there (counting a starter). It even comes with one of the better elite talents (predator). Outside of a 3 X list, I'm hard pressed to think of anything cheaper...

Edit: actually, a decent 3 X list would need the old starter, the new one (unless they pack the new damage deck with the old starter), and 2 X wing expansions, so never mind.

Heck, if the ghost can really be a viable one ship list, that's a $90 list right there (counting a starter). It even comes with one of the better elite talents (predator). Outside of a 3 X list, I'm hard pressed to think of anything cheaper...

Edit: actually, a decent 3 X list would need the old starter, the new one (unless they pack the new damage deck with the old starter), and 2 X wing expansions, so never mind.

If the 2 ship meta was something that got players complaining all the time, just wait for the 1 ship meta.

The bottom 4 averaged $203.38 and the top 4 averaged $280.68. Top 8 average was $242.03. So far there's a $40-$80 difference between the top and bottom.

Also wasn't the Champ running a Y-Wing?

I mean come on... Pay to win? With a Y-Wing? Nah. I've spent as much as the top 8 combined on a certain game - mostly painting! - and let me tell you... Hoo-boy! Pay to win? Ha! Whoo boy.. Aha, hahaha ha :cough: whew! Ha-ha! ...

...

Heheh..

Its a ywing with BtlA4 (most Wanted: $30) TLT (kwing: $20) and the stressdroid (rebel Transport: $80).

Assuming he bought a rebel ywing for the red dial, that one ship runs over half his lists total cost.

Did you read the article? He pretty much says, "No. Not it is not pay-to-win."

Remember that "pay-to-win", despite the name, does not mean that the person that pays more automatically wins. It means a person can spend more money to obtain any kind of advantage over someone that pays less. And that is clearly at play in X-Wing. Paying more gets you more ships, better pilots, better upgrades, etc.

If the 2 ship meta was something that got players complaining all the time, just wait for the 1 ship meta.

40k site article on xwing discusses if xwing is "pay to win".

LOL.

Also wasn't the Champ running a Y-Wing?I mean come on... Pay to win? With a Y-Wing? Nah. I've spent as much as the top 8 combined on a certain game - mostly painting! - and let me tell you... Hoo-boy! Pay to win? Ha! Whoo boy.. Aha, hahaha ha :cough: whew! Ha-ha! ......Heheh..

not just any y wing though...Its a ywing with BtlA4 (most Wanted: $30) TLT (kwing: $20) and the stressdroid (rebel Transport: $80).Assuming he bought a rebel ywing for the red dial, that one ship runs over half his lists total cost.

Oh no, I can't argue that. It's a pricey ship to run, but for most of us and probably a good many pros that investment is spread out over time. Seems trivial I know but it does kind of deflate the pay to win argument for me. As pointed out player skill and knowledge play a much bigger part than ship selection. I think this ensures that next years winner won't be some kid from the dustbowl who sold his uncle's Speeder to buy Heavers old list. Well unless that kid is really darn good...

Also, look at what you get for $130 if you want to build that stresshog.

A Y-Wing, 2 Z's, 1 X-Wing, 1 K-Wing, an Epic ship, tons of useful cards and pilots for ships you likely already own. So if you decided to build stresshog and you were a new player you would need a core set. That's 3 more ships for $50. Now you have a totally bangin collection for around $200. The stresshog is at this point just one of the cool things you can do.