I played with some players new to X-Wing over the weekend. They only had the new core rule book and were measuring at all points during the turn. I told them that it wasn't allowed by the rules. To which they replied it wasn't precluded in the rules.

I have searched the new Learn to Play and Rules Reference Book and wasn't able to find it there. I hope I am missing something and I am wrong about this because I don't want to have to point the new players to the FAQ.

Have I just missed it, can you point me to where it is?

I can only find it in the FAQ on page 9 under the heading "Measuring Range." Note that this rule is in a section called, "Competitive Play," so unless you are in a tournament, the new players don't necessarily have to play by this rule.

EDIT: I did a search for "range" in both of the new rules booklets and didn't find any thing about measuring only at specific times.

The problem is you can't base things on what the rules don't say. That's not how rules work. They allow you to do things, not disallow things.

So the only time you can measure is when the rules say you can. The rules also don't say that you can't take the other person's model and smash it with a hammer, yet I don't think anyone would allow this.

Basically, anytime someone says 'well the rules don't say you can't do it' they've already lost the argument, because that's not how rules work.

I think it is only for competitive play, but they should be aware in case they want to go to tournaments. I wish FFG would consolidate all of their stuff to avoid confusion. With a number of things changing it's hard to go back and forth between rule books and FAQ.

I think it is only for competitive play, but they should be aware in case they want to go to tournaments.

No really it's not. You can only measure when the rules allow you to do so, not any time you wish. Competitive or not, you're never allowed to do something unless the rules say you can.

You can't really enforce the Competitive Play Rules on newbies that are still beginning with the Basic Rules. Try telling them that they can only use the range ruler when it's for their active ship or for an ability that might become active if it's within range. Any other time and they can't use the ruler. Plus all that measuring is going to be slowing the game down. But, try and be diplomatic about it.

I think it is only for competitive play, but they should be aware in case they want to go to tournaments.

No really it's not. You can only measure when the rules allow you to do so, not any time you wish. Competitive or not, you're never allowed to do something unless the rules say you can.

^^ So very true. I know of quite a few players that don't bother reading the forums or don't have any interest in the FAQ, even when it's explaining how some things work. It can be frustrating when a player will argue a point in the rules and doesn't accept a FAQ clarification as the correction from the developers that it is. Surprising, but they're out there.

Newbies are just that - new. They usually don't know about such things as forums and FAQs, they just want to play this "new" game. It's up to the experienced players to teach them the correct way to play, but not shove the competitive play rulings down their throat in the process. That can quite often have the opposite effect of what's intended.

Get the newbies up and running and then refine their playing habits later. It sometimes takes baby steps.

Isnt range a factor in combat and combat has specific steps, with the first being activating a ship, at which point you can measure.

Isnt range a factor in combat and combat has specific steps, with the first being activating a ship, at which point you can measure.

Yes, it's one of the finer points that most newbies tend to miss. Give them a range ruler and they want to measure everything they can.

Isnt range a factor in combat and combat has specific steps, with the first being activating a ship, at which point you can measure.

Yes, it's one of the finer points that most newbies tend to miss. Give them a range ruler and they want to measure everything they can.

Isnt range a factor in combat and combat has specific steps, with the first being activating a ship, at which point you can measure.

Yes, it's one of the finer points that most newbies tend to miss. Give them a range ruler and they want to measure everything they can.

I dont have the rulebook in front of me, but are the combat steps outlined? If yes, than this makes things very clear for any new player.

The combat steps are clear. When to use the ruler, or in this case when you can't isn't so clear. And it's hard to keep excited newbies in check at the best of times. Most new players aren't likely to be heading off to a tournament any time real soon either.

This game isn't the easiest to learn without some form of guidance from a more experienced player, and it takes time to learn all the finer points of the game.

Isnt range a factor in combat and combat has specific steps, with the first being activating a ship, at which point you can measure.

Yes, it's one of the finer points that most newbies tend to miss. Give them a range ruler and they want to measure everything they can.

So can I measure my.... Oh nevermind

I could not until I got the ruler from the huge ships...

There seems to be two completely separate issues here.

I agree that when teaching someone new, you can and maybe even have to be a little lax with the rules until they get an understanding of the game.

But that does not mean the argument "well the rules don't say you can't" is at all valid.

The problem is you can't base things on what the rules don't say. That's not how rules work. They allow you to do things, not disallow things.

So the only time you can measure is when the rules say you can. The rules also don't say that you can't take the other person's model and smash it with a hammer, yet I don't think anyone would allow this.

Basically, anytime someone says 'well the rules don't say you can't do it' they've already lost the argument, because that's not how rules work.

Are you Tom Vassel? :-)

It's up to the experienced players to teach them the correct way to play, but not shove the competitive play rulings down their throat in the process. That can quite often have the opposite effect of what's intended.

Get the newbies up and running and then refine their playing habits later. It sometimes takes baby steps.

Agreed! When I'm teaching the game I'll show the obstacles and mention them, but don't 'force' them on the opponent. I do point out, however, that most people play by tournament rules all the time so they're not practicing one way and playing another. Most people I've met have responded with, "oh, if that's the way everyone does it, then yeah!" :-)

So the Learn To Play book shows an example of acquiring a target with a resistance player measuring 360 around to determine who is in range and then deciding which ship to lock. The FAQ from September says you may only measure range to the ship you intend to Target Lock. Which one is right?

The new rules are you can measure range to any opponent ship from your active ship (and only the active ship)

From the FAQ:

Players may only measure range and/or use the range ruler to determine whether a ship is inside or outside of a firing arc at the following times:

• When a ship becomes the active ship during the combat phase, the active player can measure range from the active ship to any enemy ships before declaring one as its target.

• When a player declares a ship’s ability that requires another ship (or ships) to be at a certain range, the player trying to resolve the ability can measure range from their ship to any valid ships before resolving the ability.

• After declaring the intended target of a target lock action, the active player may measure range to the intended target, and only to the intended target.

From Learn to Play:

After Blue Squadron Novice moves, he

performs an acquire a target lock action.

1. The Resistance player measures 360º

around Blue Squadron Novice’s ship to see

which enemy ships are at Range 1–3.

2. Omega Ace is out of range, so Blue

Squadron Novice cannot acquire a lock

on him.

3. Epsilon Squadron Pilot is at Range 3, so

Blue Squadron Novice locks onto him. The

Resistance player places one red target

lock token next to Epsilon Squadron Pilot’s

ship. Then he places the blue target lock

token with the matching letter next to Blue

Squadron Novice’s ship.

The new rules are you can measure range to any opponent ship from your active ship (and only the active ship)

Which was also the old rule as well. No one is disputing that. The issue here is the new rulebook possibly isn't as clear as the old rulebook, especially when you've only just gotten into this game with the TFA core set and no knowledge of anything prior to that. Or anything to compare with.

We were all newbies at one stage and I'm sure we all made our fair share of mistakes. We're only human after all (I hope). I see it as a matter of let the newbies make their mistakes and then correct them before moving on. And as far as the OP's post states, it's really hard to try and enforce a rule when it may not be in the rulebook as clear as day.

There are many instances in the rules where it instructs you to measure something, but I have yet to find anything that tells you that you can't use the range ruler outside of those instances. We've all read the rulebook with an understanding gained from reading the Competitive Play rules, the FAQ and the previous rulebook. But for a newbie reading the TFA rulebook for the first time, that kinda leaves things wide open. To understand their argument, you've got to look at from their point of view as well. There are no explicit restrictions listed in the rulebook. Even the Planning phase one about estimating and not using templates is gone. I think it's an oversight on the developer's behalf, and that they may have thought this would be cleared up with the FAQ. And newbies wouldn't know about the FAQ. I know I'd been playing about six months before I heard about it. Maybe the developers just don't see it as a necessary part of the rules for casual play anymore. Maybe it's fine to measure everything you can if you're not playing in a tournament environment.

The target lock measurement restriction discrepancy is a difference between the casual and competitive rules that's been in place for a long time.

The target lock measurement restriction discrepancy is a difference between the casual and competitive rules that's been in place for a long time.

So this should be an indication that playing in a casual environment provides more leeway with the rules and what holds true for competition is not necessarily applied to casual play.

So this should be an indication that playing in a casual environment provides more leeway with the rules and what holds true for competition is not necessarily applied to casual play.

Not exactly. Competitive play actually used a slightly different set of rules.

The new rules are in a lot of ways worse than the old rules. For example in the new rules it says nothing about if you have to barrel roll or boost once you declare your intent.

In the old rules it was quite clear you could could declare a barrel roll, and change your mind after the fact. It was only under the competitive rules that you were locked into it if you were able to. The new rules says nothing either way. If you look at the TL rules it actually seems to imply that if you can get a TL on the target ship you must do so, which is again not the same as the old rules.

The problem is, the FAQ clearly states that the competitive rules are optional, but based on the new rule book that doesn't seem to be the case.