I REALLY like the idea of different dice for ordnance attacks. They would basically be a red dice, but they could have one of the 'hits' become an extra 'crit' side. They could have an "accuracy" or "lock on" side (instead of a blank) which cancels evade results (but doesn't count as a 'hit', so if you don't roll enough evades you don't take extra damage), giving the dice slightly higher than normal damage output, which would make sense for the opportunity cost you pay for equipping ordnance both in squad points, in single use upgrades and in action economy.

Also, I vote that these new ord dice are orange!

They could have an "accuracy" or "lock on" side (instead of a blank) which cancels evade results (but doesn't increase damage, so if you don't roll enough evades you don't take extra damage)

THIS, this right here is brilliant.

Orange might get confusing, I'd say black.

I think you guys need to play test scum builds with homers crackshot glitterstim and see if you still feel this way. I have found them very powerful. Even a 35 point homer crackshot Jake can do some nasty stuff. 30 point greens with crack and homer can cripple an enemy squad. I wonder when I see these threads if people are afraid of Soontir to much?

0 point modification.

"After rolling for the attack for either a (list all ordinace), turn all hit results into critical hit results."

Ordinance is fine, Extra Munitions and pilots like Lt. Blount, Redline, Horton Salm, etc. make it fine. It's just that expendable weapons will always be viewed as less reliable because you have one chance to make it work and that'll probably keep it out of minmaxed tournament builds no matter what.

0 point modification.

"After rolling for the attack for either a (list all ordinace), turn all hit results into critical hit results."

I think that it would be better to give a title for any small ships that may carry torpedoes / missiles:

Torpedoes / Missiles Loadout - grants additional slot for that ordnance that can be filled in with cost of -4 points OR -3 points for each piece of this type of secondary weapons.

That way I think we would get the main issue covered - cost.

Wave 8 - Guidance Chip: When attacking with a weapon with the (missile) or (Torp) symbol, you may reroll a number of dice equal to your primary attack value (Up to a maximum of 3).

That is what I think the card says anyway.

So this means most get two re rolls, three with concussion. Counters the loss of the target lock without having to mess about with re-printing cards or adding additional tokens. Also helps dedicated missile platforms outside of Deathrain and also makes Deadeye marginally useful.

The idea of putting torpedo/missile dice is ridiculous. The fix I am proposing does not require the modification of any core mechanics, simply as a basic modification card. Guidance chip seems to be the official answer from FFG...

How about an upgrade card that allows you to fire your primary and an ordnance but gives you a no atk token for next turn.

Basically turns any ordnance ship into corran except double 3atk primary is still better then ordnance.

The biggest problem with an ordnance fix now is we have two fixes already one is a mod the other a torpedo. You can make this fix an ept but that limits all generics. That may not be bad considering it's a powerful ability but not op. You basically trade an atk next turn for a primary atk without action economy and a secondary atk without action economy and lose your ept slot and at least cost 1 point more for an already overpriced atk that usually has its own range limitations as well.

If guidance chip is what I said previously then I think you will see it used more on K wings and such.

A K-wing with cluster missiles, extra munitions and Guidance Chip will essentially push out 2 sets of 3 hits for 6 points. That will melt most large ships.

Would even make Esegu (or what ever the name is) with Recon Spec and two head-hunters with any sort of missiles quite strong on the alpha strike.

Additionally I saw someone mention scum glitter combo. I can confirm that Latts with Weapon Engineer and two Black Sun Aces with Crackshot, Glitterstim and Homing Missiles took out Soontir Fell and Carnor Jax in a single turn of firing. Also removed Vader/Soontir, Soontir/Whisper, 2 A wings and with some awesome luck, has even taken out Dash Rander in a single turn. They work but REALLY need a lot of modifications to make it happen.

Weapon guidance is a tech upgrade for one and two the cards been leaked.

It allows you to use a focus to turn a blank into a hit.

Whoops never mind ya the punishing one has a mod with this. Kinda makes the munition failsafe useless unless it costs more then 1pt. Still seems like it costs to much just to give an ordnance better hit rates.

Everything about Missiles and Torpedoes in this game sucks. Too many things to fix them all with a single upgrade.

FFGs did a bad job designing them. They don't work with gameplay OR the lore.

I guess torpedoes and missiles won't be fixed until we are able to field 4 rookies with proton torpedoes and have it as a viable list. At least that seems to be the feeling I'm getting from all this. Granted, concussion missiles and proton torpedoes (the basic and most iconic warheads in the game) only give 4 red dice attacks at range 2-3 and offer a slight adjustment to one die each, so they aren't really any better than 3 att primary with TL anyway, other than denying range 3 bonus. Other types of missiles and torps have other tricks that might justify the cost though. Several pilots already make certain types of warheads very useful without further upgrades. And given the pattern of 'fixes' from FFG I'm sure we will never see one single solid fix all across the board.

I feel like they can't be made any stronger right now. If there is a better 4 dice attack than HLC game balance could fall apart. I really have a hard time seeing generics doing better than glitter homers because better would look like 4 auto hits that have a built in crackshot effect. The relative inefficiencies of ordinance bearers have to stick around or there will be an arms race. Hell, people don't want to try out glitter missiles as it is, if an even more obvious alpha strike is available the meta might shift to tie swarm or alpha strike.

I have a list with N'Dru using Crack, Glitter and Homing. Was only able to play it once so far, but got a nice OSK on Jake :-) Really, 5 attack dice, no evade token against it, loosing one evade result, one reroll on attack and all eye results are hits - I don't see how you can get it any better. The other two ships in that list are Talonbane Cobra and Serisu with HLC.

Alpha strike from generics with glitter missiles sound like something here :-)

Why not have torpedo cit hits cause 2 hits? Simple fix and proton torpedos would be worth taking as a focus could be changed to 2 hits

Based on the most recent pic I've seen

https://d.maxfile.ro/pssqxgpptr.png

I think it says:

When attacking with a [torpedo or missile] secondary weapon you may change [blank] results to [hit] results equal to your primary attack value.

Or something similar. You can clearly see a lot of that and that's the gist even if that exact wording doesn't fit

I hope it isn't this, it really hurts redline and jonus.

I'm not sure it's a reroll. I think it's either a replacement or cancel.

This, but I don't think they should stop at ordinance. The core combat mechanic would be better with separate to-hit and damage dice. It needn't slow the game down either, as both could be rolled at the same time. (maybe the to-hit dice would be a different color, for example)

They probably shouldn't actually do this now though; it's too late. I'm curious if it was ever a consideration in the original game design though, and if so why they chose to discard it.

The ship has long since sailed on this, but if I were in charge I would look into giving munitions fixed or very slightly variable damage. Torpedos would have few to-hit dice, but do a lot of fixed damage. While missiles would roll a lot of to-hit dice, but do a smaller amount of fixed damage. This makes munitions far more reliable and separates accuracy from damage, making them different from all other weapon types.

This was meant to be a casual miniatures game that was fast paced and fun, so I think it was a conscious decision to keep the dice down to attack and evade. Of course it has totally taken off like crazy now, so we will have to wait and see if 2.0 will ever come out and include damage dice.

This, but I don't think they should stop at ordinance. The core combat mechanic would be better with separate to-hit and damage dice. It needn't slow the game down either, as both could be rolled at the same time. (maybe the to-hit dice would be a different color, for example)

They probably shouldn't actually do this now though; it's too late. I'm curious if it was ever a consideration in the original game design though, and if so why they chose to discard it.

The ship has long since sailed on this, but if I were in charge I would look into giving munitions fixed or very slightly variable damage. Torpedos would have few to-hit dice, but do a lot of fixed damage. While missiles would roll a lot of to-hit dice, but do a smaller amount of fixed damage. This makes munitions far more reliable and separates accuracy from damage, making them different from all other weapon types.

We're only at our 2nd ship to have 4 red and I doubt we'll ever see 4 green (maybe on an ETA-2 or fanblade fighter with only 2 reds and no boost) and will never see a 4 green + boost because of auto thrusters. There are already a lot of problems with 2 dice ships cracking 3 green + defensive enhancements (or just the sheild refer game).

This was meant to be a casual miniatures game that was fast paced and fun, so I think it was a conscious decision to keep the dice down to attack and evade. Of course it has totally taken off like crazy now, so we will have to wait and see if 2.0 will ever come out and include damage dice.

I assume the empires' missile boat will have something like the new ord tubes in epic. Other support ships like the HWK could have 0 art and you'd just expect them to buy a turret or fly them stupid cheap for just their support features they offer. A 0 agility ship with evade or the reinforce action? Could happen, especially if it has a crew or Astro slot for regen.

While I would have liked to see munitions dice or elite dice (and wide or long bases) it just feels too late. But I would rather see them here late than a 2.0 or just not at all and hope the design team keeps it balanced and interesting without too much complication added.

Maybe the waves will eventually move to mechanics that are independent of dice. It seems to be going that way with TLTs basically doing set damage and relying on dice for accuracy. The same is true for the newer munitions. Advanced homing missile on Blount gives a range 2 no go zone for aces. Secondary weapons seem to be making their own 'damage dice' by canceling dice results and doing set damage and tokens based on hit/no hit mechanics.