Where do you measure the range of your aft placed secondary weapons on the Raider from?
Do you go by the standard rules and measure from the base of the ship or from the edge of the arc (since the aft arc extends beyond the base of the ship)?
In the Raider preview it seems to me that they measure range from the edge of the arc.

You always measure within arc, unless it's an out-of-arc turret attack.

So yes, from the edge of arc. as always

You always measure within arc, unless it's an out-of-arc turret attack.

So yes, from the edge of arc. as always

You always measure within arc, unless it's an out-of-arc turret attack.

So yes, from the edge of arc. as always

Keep in mind that you measure range from the closest point of the attackers base to the closest point of the base of the other ship that it is in arc. For all other ships than the raider that usualy means from the point on the edge of the base where the printed arc on the ship token extends. The Epic rules say that huge ships have a ship token with two sections and two bases, with the Raider a unique case where the printed aft arc extends beyond the aft base of the ship.

Nope, IF the closest point is outside your firing arc

and your attack cannot hit targets outsife the arc, yu measure range towards the nearest point within your firing arc.

Aft base is limited by the blue line, and not the plastic.

I am not sure you understand my question.

It's from the edge of the arc.

It's from the edge of the arc.

Why is it from the edge of the arc and not from the edge of the plastic base?

Thats what I don't understand, can someone explain?

IMO, this is another example of arc and range being measured separately. Like 'Tactician' and 'Autothrusters' have instructed us.

Check if your objective is in arc using the green lines. But measure range to it from the base.

It's a gap in the huge ship rules that isn't explicitly spelled out, unfortunately. But I agree with the others that range should be measured from the edge of the arc, not from the base. Here's what the rules do say:

HUGE SHIP SECTIONS

Huge ships count as a single ship consisting of two bases, one ship token, and one or two Ship cards. The ship token is divided into two halves by the blue center line. The front base and the front half of the ship token comprise the fore section. The rear base and the rear half of the ship token comprise the aft section.

So when the rules refer to a section of a ship, it means both the base and the corresponding half of the cardboard token. The rules mention measuring to a section here:

Targeting a Huge Ship

To target a huge ship, choose a section (either fore or aft) of a huge ship that the attacking ship can target normally. [...] The range of the attack is determined by the line measured from the closest point of the attacking ship to the closest point of the chosen huge ship’s section that is inside the attacking ship’s firing arc.

Measuring specifically from the base is mentioned in the rules, but only in regards to turret primary attacks:

Turret Primary Weapon

Some huge ships have a primary weapon that is a turret. [...] When that ship attacks with its turret primary weapon, it may target an enemy ship inside or outside its firing arc, and it measures range from the corresponding section’s base.

Finally, the section on secondary weapons doesn't tell us how to measure range, but it makes no mention of the ship's bases either:

Additional Firing Arcs

Some huge ships have different firing arcs. For example, the CR90 has four firing arcs printed on the ship token; there are two firing arcs in the fore section and two firing arcs in the aft section. If a section of the CR90 has a secondary weapon equipped, that secondary weapon must target a ship inside either firing arc from its corresponding section.

Based on all of this, we know that the cardboard token is part of a ship's section, and that it is a valid point to measure to when checking the range of attacks and other effects. Turret primary attacks are measured specifically from the base, but since the base is only mentioned in that particular case, I would interpret that as an exception rather than a general rule.

Finally, there's the matter of practicality. Since the inside edges of the bases aren't marked on the token, measuring at the edge of the arc will require you to measure from an invisible line. In a game of millimeters, I think that needlessly complicates the measurement. It's much simpler to measure from endpoints that are physically present on the field.

IMO, this is another example of arc and range being measured separately. Like 'Tactician' and 'Autothrusters' have instructed us.

Check if your objective is in arc using the green lines. But measure range to it from the base.

In those cases, you have one effect that depends on measurement within a ship's arc, and another that depends on the simple closest-to-closest measurement. For the Raider's auxiliary arcs, only the range within arc is being referenced, so I don't think those cases are related.

IMO, this is another example of arc and range being measured separately. Like 'Tactician' and 'Autothrusters' have instructed us.

Check if your objective is in arc using the green lines. But measure range to it from the base.

In those cases, you have one effect that depends on measurement within a ship's arc, and another that depends on the simple closest-to-closest measurement. For the Raider's auxiliary arcs, only the range within arc is being referenced, so I don't think those cases are related.

To be exact, I'd say that it's precisely the opposite. There aren't 2 effects. There's only one effect that can't happen if either the range check or arc check fail.

Regardless of that, if it's truly not mentioned in the rules, then, there's no reason to assume it should be done differently to the core rules, which establish that you measure from the base.

To be exact, I'd say that it's precisely the opposite. There aren't 2 effects. There's only one effect that can't happen if either the range check or arc check fail.

I used "effect" imprecisely there, that's true. Still, range and arc checks are only separate for turret attacks; for in-arc weapons, they are both tied to the same measurement, and the Raider doesn't have any turret weapons.

Regardless of that, if it's truly not mentioned in the rules, then, there's no reason to assume it should be done differently to the core rules, which establish that you measure from the base.

That's reasonable as a rule, but I think that there is a reason to assume huge ships work differently. Small and large ships measure base to base, but the "Targeting a Huge Ship" rule specifies that attacks on huge ships are measured from closest point to closest point of the targeted section. And the rules define a huge ship section as including the cardboard token. In fact, the rules for a turret primary are the only time that the huge ship rules instruct you to measure from the base.* All other measurements are from the appropriate section or from the closest point on the ship as a whole.

So, if we apply the base-to-base rule here, then attacks on huge ships (and all other measurements) can use its token as the closest point, but attacks from huge ships cannot. To me, at least, that's counter-intuitive enough that they should have specified that as a general rule, not just in a sentence describing a particular type of attack.

*Edit: Aside from the center-of-base to center-of-base measurement that checks for crossing the blue line, but that's an entirely different type of check unique to huge ships.

IMO, this is another example of arc and range being measured separately. Like 'Tactician' and 'Autothrusters' have instructed us.

Check if your objective is in arc using the green lines. But measure range to it from the base.

In those cases, you have one effect that depends on measurement within a ship's arc, and another that depends on the simple closest-to-closest measurement. For the Raider's auxiliary arcs, only the range within arc is being referenced, so I don't think those cases are related.

To be exact, I'd say that it's precisely the opposite. There aren't 2 effects. There's only one effect that can't happen if either the range check or arc check fail.

Regardless of that, if it's truly not mentioned in the rules, then, there's no reason to assume it should be done differently to the core rules, which establish that you measure from the base.

Okay *PAINT MASTER TIME*

Here's an example of how you measure from the printed part.

and why you do so.

You measure range within arc.

Only "turret" attacks measure from closest point to closest point regardless of arcs.

It's no different for Huges

IMO, this is another example of arc and range being measured separately. Like 'Tactician' and 'Autothrusters' have instructed us.

Check if your objective is in arc using the green lines. But measure range to it from the base.

In those cases, you have one effect that depends on measurement within a ship's arc, and another that depends on the simple closest-to-closest measurement. For the Raider's auxiliary arcs, only the range within arc is being referenced, so I don't think those cases are related.

To be exact, I'd say that it's precisely the opposite. There aren't 2 effects. There's only one effect that can't happen if either the range check or arc check fail.

Regardless of that, if it's truly not mentioned in the rules, then, there's no reason to assume it should be done differently to the core rules, which establish that you measure from the base.

I tend to agree with you, that is why the example figure from the Raider preview in the OP got me confused. It looks like they are measuring range from the arc instead of the base.

IMO, this is another example of arc and range being measured separately. Like 'Tactician' and 'Autothrusters' have instructed us.

Check if your objective is in arc using the green lines. But measure range to it from the base.

In those cases, you have one effect that depends on measurement within a ship's arc, and another that depends on the simple closest-to-closest measurement. For the Raider's auxiliary arcs, only the range within arc is being referenced, so I don't think those cases are related.

To be exact, I'd say that it's precisely the opposite. There aren't 2 effects. There's only one effect that can't happen if either the range check or arc check fail.

Regardless of that, if it's truly not mentioned in the rules, then, there's no reason to assume it should be done differently to the core rules, which establish that you measure from the base.

Okay *PAINT MASTER TIME*

Here's an example of how you measure from the printed part.

and why you do so.

You measure range within arc.

Only "turret" attacks measure from closest point to closest point regardless of arcs.

It's no different for Huges

Do you realize we are talking about the RAIDER AFT ARC, and not the standard procedure for measuring range?

IMO, this is another example of arc and range being measured separately. Like 'Tactician' and 'Autothrusters' have instructed us.

Check if your objective is in arc using the green lines. But measure range to it from the base.

In those cases, you have one effect that depends on measurement within a ship's arc, and another that depends on the simple closest-to-closest measurement. For the Raider's auxiliary arcs, only the range within arc is being referenced, so I don't think those cases are related.

To be exact, I'd say that it's precisely the opposite. There aren't 2 effects. There's only one effect that can't happen if either the range check or arc check fail.

Regardless of that, if it's truly not mentioned in the rules, then, there's no reason to assume it should be done differently to the core rules, which establish that you measure from the base.

Okay *PAINT MASTER TIME*

Here's an example of how you measure from the printed part.

and why you do so.

You measure range within arc.

Only "turret" attacks measure from closest point to closest point regardless of arcs.

It's no different for Huges

Do you realize we are talking about the RAIDER AFT ARC, and not the standard procedure for measuring range?

It amtters not.

You measure range to the enemy within your arc.

Turret weapons are exception from that.

Raider has no turret weapons. Raider is not using exceptions.

IMO, this is another example of arc and range being measured separately. Like 'Tactician' and 'Autothrusters' have instructed us.

Check if your objective is in arc using the green lines. But measure range to it from the base.

In those cases, you have one effect that depends on measurement within a ship's arc, and another that depends on the simple closest-to-closest measurement. For the Raider's auxiliary arcs, only the range within arc is being referenced, so I don't think those cases are related.

To be exact, I'd say that it's precisely the opposite. There aren't 2 effects. There's only one effect that can't happen if either the range check or arc check fail.

Regardless of that, if it's truly not mentioned in the rules, then, there's no reason to assume it should be done differently to the core rules, which establish that you measure from the base.

Okay *PAINT MASTER TIME*

Here's an example of how you measure from the printed part.

and why you do so.

You measure range within arc.

Only "turret" attacks measure from closest point to closest point regardless of arcs.

It's no different for Huges

Do you realize we are talking about the RAIDER AFT ARC, and not the standard procedure for measuring range?

It amtters not.

You measure range to the enemy within your arc.

Turret weapons are exception from that.

Raider has no turret weapons. Raider is not using exceptions.

It matters A LOT!

Make a drawing measuring range from the aft base of the Raider to a ship that its closest point is where the fore arc and the aft arc lines join together.

I am curious to see how you are gonna measure that and why.

It took me a while to fully grasp what the question was here.

As I understand it the question is if you measure from the closest point of the base (the plastic base under the cardboard token) or from the closest point of the section (the cardboard token extends beyond the plastic base and is part of the section up to the blue line)?

It took me a while to fully grasp what the question was here.

As I understand it the question is if you measure from the closest point of the base (the plastic base under the cardboard token) or from the closest point of the section (the cardboard token extends beyond the plastic base and is part of the section up to the blue line)?

Spot on!

Arc is arc. The raider is not two large ship bases, it is a single ship with a single ship token. Even if that ship token is quite large. You need to measure from the printed arc on the ship token attached to the bases. They would not make those arcs like they did if you couldn't use them.

IMO, this is another example of arc and range being measured separately. Like 'Tactician' and 'Autothrusters' have instructed us.

Check if your objective is in arc using the green lines. But measure range to it from the base.

In those cases, you have one effect that depends on measurement within a ship's arc, and another that depends on the simple closest-to-closest measurement. For the Raider's auxiliary arcs, only the range within arc is being referenced, so I don't think those cases are related.

To be exact, I'd say that it's precisely the opposite. There aren't 2 effects. There's only one effect that can't happen if either the range check or arc check fail.

Regardless of that, if it's truly not mentioned in the rules, then, there's no reason to assume it should be done differently to the core rules, which establish that you measure from the base.

Okay *PAINT MASTER TIME*

Here's an example of how you measure from the printed part.

and why you do so.

You measure range within arc.

Only "turret" attacks measure from closest point to closest point regardless of arcs.

It's no different for Huges

Do you realize we are talking about the RAIDER AFT ARC, and not the standard procedure for measuring range?

It amtters not.

You measure range to the enemy within your arc.

Turret weapons are exception from that.

Raider has no turret weapons. Raider is not using exceptions.

It matters A LOT!

Make a drawing measuring range from the aft base of the Raider to a ship that its closest point is where the fore arc and the aft arc lines join together.

I am curious to see how you are gonna measure that and why.

you STILL measure from the point on the CARDBOARD where the arc ends.

you DON'T measure from the "base".

THE only time you measure from the BASE (the plastic thing) and not the cardboard is when you use turret weapons.

It's perfectly seen on all the explanation pictures in rulebooks. That's whypictures are there in the first place

Raider is also not an exception. It has a picture reference in case questions arise

p.s. and yeah, obstruction and all the measures for abilities also seemingly speak about bases.

So now it's time to fly into raiders and tantives?

IMO, this is another example of arc and range being measured separately. Like 'Tactician' and 'Autothrusters' have instructed us.

Check if your objective is in arc using the green lines. But measure range to it from the base.

In those cases, you have one effect that depends on measurement within a ship's arc, and another that depends on the simple closest-to-closest measurement. For the Raider's auxiliary arcs, only the range within arc is being referenced, so I don't think those cases are related.

To be exact, I'd say that it's precisely the opposite. There aren't 2 effects. There's only one effect that can't happen if either the range check or arc check fail.

Regardless of that, if it's truly not mentioned in the rules, then, there's no reason to assume it should be done differently to the core rules, which establish that you measure from the base.

Okay *PAINT MASTER TIME*

Here's an example of how you measure from the printed part.

and why you do so.

You measure range within arc.

Only "turret" attacks measure from closest point to closest point regardless of arcs.

It's no different for Huges

Do you realize we are talking about the RAIDER AFT ARC, and not the standard procedure for measuring range?

It amtters not.

You measure range to the enemy within your arc.

Turret weapons are exception from that.

Raider has no turret weapons. Raider is not using exceptions.

It matters A LOT!

Make a drawing measuring range from the aft base of the Raider to a ship that its closest point is where the fore arc and the aft arc lines join together.

I am curious to see how you are gonna measure that and why.

you STILL measure from the point on the CARDBOARD where the arc ends.

you DON'T measure from the "base".

THE only time you measure from the BASE (the plastic thing) and not the cardboard is when you use turret weapons.

It's perfectly seen on all the explanation pictures in rulebooks. That's whypictures are there in the first place

Raider is also not an exception. It has a picture reference in case questions arise

p.s. and yeah, obstruction and all the measures for abilities also seemingly speak about bases.

So now it's time to fly into raiders and tantives?

You dont understand the rules that's why you are wrong, the arc only defines what are the closest points between the BASES .

You measure from the BASE and always from the BASE, the ship token is NOT the BASE. The ship token is clearly smaller than the base, are we gonna start now measuring between the ship tokens if you consider them the base of the ship?

A ship can be at range one, but out of arc.

Why? because the closest points between the BASES are at range one, but the ships BASE is out of arc.

It used to be a great example picture in the old rule book but its not included in the new one, too bad.

The printed arc on the ship token is used for checking if the ship is in arc.

What you dont understand even in the example that you gave before is that you measure the closest points between the BASES that are inside the attackers arc .

This does not necessarily mean that they are also the closest points between the ship BASES .

Again regarding overlapping read the rules carefully. The rules say that when a small ships BASE overlaps a huge ship. BASE is not included again in the sentence when referring to the huge ship and for a good reason!

How a huge ship is defined you can read it in the first page of the huge ship rules:

Huge ships count as a single ship consisting of two bases, one ship token, and one or two Ship cards. The ship token is divided into two halves by the blue center line. The front base and the front half of the ship token comprise the fore section. The rear base and the rear half of the ship token comprise the aft section.

Which is where the problem with the Raider aft arc originates. The aft arc extends beyond the rear BASE to the middle of the ship token.

PS: Which makes me think that the picture in the OP is meant to display the arc only and not measure range.

"You dont understand the rules that's why you are wrong"

Interesting everyone else plays wrong. How many games have you played with your raider?

"You dont understand the rules that's why you are wrong"

Interesting everyone else plays wrong. How many games have you played with your raider?

That is a strong statement I now regret, regardless to answer your question I have about 10 games with the Raider and have also played in an Epic rules tournament.

What sparked this thread was something that actually came up in a game with the Raider last Sunday.

The turn after this X-Wing # 5 was inside the aft arc.

If you measured from the aft Base, it was at range 3 and the Raider could not fire the Quad Laser Cannons. If you measured from the edge of the aft arc on the ship token it was at range 2 and you could fire them.

In the end we went for base to base measurement and I think that's was probably correct.

I would say you did it right.

The base rule is to measure range of an attack as closest point between the two ships bases that is inside the attackers firing arc.

The exceptions stated in the huge ship rules are when attacking a huge ship (here we are instructed to measure to the targeted section ) and when a huge ship attacks with a turret primary weapon.

So in all other cases I see nothing indicating you would measure from the closest point of the section but stick to the base rule and measure from the base.

I can see how the argument could go both way: that the secondary weapons of the Raider in the aft section could measure its range from the aft base or the aft section, depending on how you read (or imply) some of it. One point that I would like to underline is that, if memory serves, the wording of the attack and being attacked of the huge ship rules has not really changed since it was first written. Back then, it was specifically worded for the corvette (which does not face the same issue with its secondary weapons).

My question is therefore this: has anyone submitted the question to FFG? It would seem a worthwhile one to pose, yes?