Oh, and my money's on it being 16pt at PS1, with a good but white dial (a la starviper).

a Ps 1 arc-dodger?

Obviously, the lowest skill generic pilot is not the pilot that defines an arc-dodger.

Unless you think the Interceptor isn't an arc-dodger because of the Alpha Squadron Pilot?

the post in question was talking about the prototype

although, honestly, apart from Jake the A-wing isn't much of an arc-dodger. Boost by itself does not an arc-dodger make.

none of the other pilots, from arvel (bless his overpriced heart) to Gemmer (more agility at range 1) to Tycho (don't give no **** about stress) really suggest "arc-dodger" so much as blocker, blocker, and "**** your stress"

the TAP may well be given the same role, since they're not as fragile as the "one look and it shatters" interceptors that need to arc-dodge or hope they get lucky and won't be as maneuverable unless they get a ridiculous dial to match

And given how successful I've seen 2 Atk ships be, I think it will be a very annoying ship to fight. And if the PS 4 has a EPT, oh my.

What 2-attack ships have you seen be successful?

Umm....Tie Fighters? Tie FO's?

This isn't in the same price rage as those ships. The Prototype isn't a swarm ship, it's more like an arc dodging ace, but with only 2 attack. it's likely going to cost around 18 points for the cheapest ship, making it comparable to the TIE Interceptor. Sure a swarm of TIE Fighters can see success, but you aren't going to fit 7 or 8 TIE Adv. Prototypes in a list.

???

a Ps 1 arc-dodger?

as nathan demonstrated at Worlds, it's an "ace" but not an arc-dodger. It's a "**** you" blocker extraordinaire that will carry your ass when properly utilized and for only 15 points. It's not a late game ship, it's potent support for anyone who knows how to use it.

The TAPs can easily serve the same purpose, being far less "oh, I guess green dice failed me again *dies*" than interceptors but still possessing boost + roll

the Tie/v1 title will alternatively make it the perfect platform for Juke, provided the PS 4 gets an EPT

anyway, the Inquisitor doesn't really fit this mold. It's a 3 attack ship at every range, but especially at range 3 where it (supposedly) negates all range 3 bonuses for the enemy, including thrusters

I'm confused as to what you are talking about here. I'm not saying that the TIE/FO is an arc dodger, I'm saying the TIE Adv. Prototype looks like it'll be an arc dodger. Nobody has demonstrated the prototype at worlds, and the prototype is likely going to cost many points more than 15.

As for Juke - sure that's alright I guess. Still gonna get 1 shotted by a proton bomb or blount with an adv homing missile. If you haven't guessed by now I hate ships with either 2 attack, or 2 hull.... hate ships with both of them even worse.

And my point was... that someone was saying "Well 2-attack ships are doing great so this will too!", and I was disputing that, because the only 2-attack ships that do great are SWARM ships, and the prototype is not a swarm ship.

for me it seems the Inquisitor himself takes the role of the anti-ace dodger:

- 3 attack at every range

- negates bonus defense die for the defender at range 3

- negates autothrusters at range 3

- juke/v1 combo

all this makes him the range 3 ace killer.

as i see all the comparisons to the tie/fo and a-wing there must be a reason for it to have a similar cost and thats the dial that has to offer something comparable. in my opinion that is a starviper-like dial but with all speed one maneuvers in green and either sloops k-turn or t-roll in red.

for me it seems the Inquisitor himself takes the role of the anti-ace dodger:

- 3 attack at every range

- negates bonus defense die for the defender at range 3

- negates autothrusters at range 3

- juke/v1 combo

all this makes him the range 3 ace killer.

as i see all the comparisons to the tie/fo and a-wing there must be a reason for it to have a similar cost and thats the dial that has to offer something comparable. in my opinion that is a starviper-like dial but with all speed one maneuvers in green and either sloops k-turn or t-roll in red.

And this very much fits his character. He is the hero killer!

You ask me, the TIE v1 looks like the best all-round Imperial Fighter anybody can get.

The better comparison for this ship is going to likely be the TIE/fo, A-Wing, and pre-title Advanced.

That may very well be true, and it's one of the reasons I suspect the X1 title might actually be legal for the Prototype Advanced. The ship would be strong because of its upgrade possibilities, not strictly the dial or the stats.

Or am I off base as far as what a good jouster should look like?

I think BR & boost will inevitably turn it into a PTL arc-dodger. Either one or the other I think.

careful with this

people mistakenly thought the Viper was the scum interceptor because of this combination of actions, and now quite a few people underestimate them instead of using them as the uber-b-wings they were always meant to be

TAPs probably won't be a B-wing nor a jouster (that's the Tie fighter's job), but it could be an uber-prototype pilot

Shouldn't the card say:

Grand Inquisitor

The better comparison for this ship is going to likely be the TIE/fo, A-Wing, and pre-title Advanced.

That may very well be true, and it's one of the reasons I suspect the X1 title might actually be legal for the Prototype Advanced. The ship would be strong because of its upgrade possibilities, not strictly the dial or the stats.

I might be inclined to agree with you if the V1 was not a TAP only card. Second, a recent rules clarification has stated that the exact wording must be present when determining if a title is legal on a certain ship. Hence X-wing only and TIE only work on multiple ships. The X1 title states TIE Advanced only. The TAP does not have this wording on the dial or the Pilot Card.

Shouldn't the card say:

Grand Inquisitor

That would be unexpected....

Shouldn't the card say:

Grand Inquisitor

Not necessarily. They could just be the inquisitor of that battle.

The better comparison for this ship is going to likely be the TIE/fo, A-Wing, and pre-title Advanced.

That may very well be true, and it's one of the reasons I suspect the X1 title might actually be legal for the Prototype Advanced. The ship would be strong because of its upgrade possibilities, not strictly the dial or the stats.

I might be inclined to agree with you if the V1 was not a TAP only card. Second, a recent rules clarification has stated that the exact wording must be present when determining if a title is legal on a certain ship. Hence X-wing only and TIE only work on multiple ships. The X1 title states TIE Advanced only. The TAP does not have this wording on the dial or the Pilot Card.

Edit: but given to bet, I would guess that the X1 title was meant for the old Advanced only, and that the TAP was not designed with the X1 title in mind. But that is because I am guessing what is on the designer's minds, not what the rules strictly say. And maybe the X1 title would not be overpowered on the TAP.

The better comparison for this ship is going to likely be the TIE/fo, A-Wing, and pre-title Advanced.

That may very well be true, and it's one of the reasons I suspect the X1 title might actually be legal for the Prototype Advanced. The ship would be strong because of its upgrade possibilities, not strictly the dial or the stats.

I might be inclined to agree with you if the V1 was not a TAP only card. Second, a recent rules clarification has stated that the exact wording must be present when determining if a title is legal on a certain ship. Hence X-wing only and TIE only work on multiple ships. The X1 title states TIE Advanced only. The TAP does not have this wording on the dial or the Pilot Card.

Hence, Crabbock's remark about the Raider above. Its title cards are for a 'corvette' but the ship's cards say 'corv.' No mention in the FAQ. So it stands to reason that 'adv.' and 'advanced' are the same thing for purposes of rules.

I understand and appreciate this line of reasoning, but I think we're more likely to see an errata of the x1 Title than see it on the TAP. I cannot understate the ways in which the Inquisitor will by horrifically broken if he can take the x1 and ATC.

4 dice, no defensive range bonus, an autocrit, no autothrusters. Worse case scenario is that he's Target Locking every turn. This generates one automatic result (the crit) and 3 unmodified red dice, averaging 2.5 hits at all ranges, but with the above discussed bonuses. If it's a big target and he's leaving the TL on for an extra turn or two, that average goes up.

Inquisitor (25)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Autothrusters (2)

TIE/x1 title (0)

Advanced Targeting Computer (1)

29 points for a PS10 super-HLC. The only downside is 4 hit points, which isn't ideal, but that kind of offense is just about unprecedented in this game.

We haven't really discussed the TAP since the TIE/fo was released. So let's compare, with what me know...

Base TIE/fo - PS 1 with 2/3/3/1 Tech 15 poitns

Base TAP - PS 2 with 2/3/2/2 Missile ???

Actions are almost identical with the difference being the FO can barrel roll and the TAP can boost.

PS 8 FO - 21 points Has a Tech slot and EPT

PS8 TAP - 25 points Has a Missile slot and EPT

The FO has an AMAZING dial. TAP will need to have something to justify the higher cost, or the base will need to be cheaper than the FO. I don't see that happening though. I'm guessing that PS 2 will cost 16 or 17 points.

I think it's safe to say that the Inquisitor's ability is worth 2 points (FFG may only have priced it at 1 point, however). At the same time, the ability of Omega leader is worth... I dunno. It feels like it's worth more than 1 point, but less than the Inquisitor's ability. And FFG seems to have actually priced Omega Leader's ability at -1 point (15 points for the PS1 TIE/Fo + 7 points for PS = 22 points.)

So, assuming that FFG (correctly) added 2 points to the Inquisitor for his ability, and another 7 points to the Inquisitor for his PS, we get a 16 point PS 1 TIE Adv. Prototype. So if the dial for TAP is in the neighborhood of the TIE Advanced, the 1 point premium it would pay over the TIE F/O would be justified by the extra shield. Alternately: Saving a point and getting that awesome dial is an interesting tradeoff.

The better comparison for this ship is going to likely be the TIE/fo, A-Wing, and pre-title Advanced.

That may very well be true, and it's one of the reasons I suspect the X1 title might actually be legal for the Prototype Advanced. The ship would be strong because of its upgrade possibilities, not strictly the dial or the stats.

I might be inclined to agree with you if the V1 was not a TAP only card. Second, a recent rules clarification has stated that the exact wording must be present when determining if a title is legal on a certain ship. Hence X-wing only and TIE only work on multiple ships. The X1 title states TIE Advanced only. The TAP does not have this wording on the dial or the Pilot Card.

Hence, Crabbock's remark about the Raider above. Its title cards are for a 'corvette' but the ship's cards say 'corv.' No mention in the FAQ. So it stands to reason that 'adv.' and 'advanced' are the same thing for purposes of rules.

I understand and appreciate this line of reasoning, but I think we're more likely to see an errata of the x1 Title than see it on the TAP. I cannot understate the ways in which the Inquisitor will by horrifically broken if he can take the x1 and ATC.

4 dice, no defensive range bonus, an autocrit, no autothrusters. Worse case scenario is that he's Target Locking every turn. This generates one automatic result (the crit) and 3 unmodified red dice, averaging 2.5 hits at all ranges, but with the above discussed bonuses. If it's a big target and he's leaving the TL on for an extra turn or two, that average goes up.

Inquisitor (25)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Autothrusters (2)

TIE/x1 title (0)

Advanced Targeting Computer (1)

29 points for a PS10 super-HLC. The only downside is 4 hit points, which isn't ideal, but that kind of offense is just about unprecedented in this game.

vs 23 points for an M3A with HLC - I wouldn't exactly call it unprecedented. Also the Inquisitor is unique so you couldn't put 3 of them in a list, like you can with the M3A.

It makes no difference anyway because I'm like 90% sure we won't be able to put the X1 on the Adv. I believe it was posted awhile back that that was NEVER the intent of the developers, so it's not like they'll allow something that contradicts design. Even if I think it would be awesome.

What would be cool though, is to have some versatile titles come out for LOTS of ships someday. Maybe a few aces packs with generic titles. Maybe some TIE only titles, maybe multi ship titles like X-Wing or E-Wing only, or maybe some truly generic titles than can go on ANY ship.

"The Ravager Express" - Title - any ship - cost 21

"Add 1 to your primary attack value".

The greatest value of 'quisitor is that he effectively negates all autothrusters

I think it's safe to say that the Inquisitor's ability is worth 2 points (FFG may only have priced it at 1 point, however). At the same time, the ability of Omega leader is worth... I dunno. It feels like it's worth more than 1 point, but less than the Inquisitor's ability. And FFG seems to have actually priced Omega Leader's ability at -1 point (15 points for the PS1 TIE/Fo + 7 points for PS = 22 points.)

So, assuming that FFG (correctly) added 2 points to the Inquisitor for his ability, and another 7 points to the Inquisitor for his PS, we get a 16 point PS 1 TIE Adv. Prototype. So if the dial for TAP is in the neighborhood of the TIE Advanced, the 1 point premium it would pay over the TIE F/O would be justified by the extra shield. Alternately: Saving a point and getting that awesome dial is an interesting tradeoff.

Except there is no PS1 version. The lowest is PS2. I'm sure you are aware of this and just trying to do cost analysis, so my remarks are more for anyone reading expecting to field this ship for 16.

We haven't really discussed the TAP since the TIE/fo was released. So let's compare, with what me know...

Base TIE/fo - PS 1 with 2/3/3/1 Tech 15 poitns

Base TAP - PS 2 with 2/3/2/2 Missile ???

Actions are almost identical with the difference being the FO can barrel roll and the TAP can boost.

PS 8 FO - 21 points Has a Tech slot and EPT

PS8 TAP - 25 points Has a Missile slot and EPT

The FO has an AMAZING dial. TAP will need to have something to justify the higher cost, or the base will need to be cheaper than the FO. I don't see that happening though. I'm guessing that PS 2 will cost 16 or 17 points.

I think it's safe to say that the Inquisitor's ability is worth 2 points (FFG may only have priced it at 1 point, however). At the same time, the ability of Omega leader is worth... I dunno. It feels like it's worth more than 1 point, but less than the Inquisitor's ability. And FFG seems to have actually priced Omega Leader's ability at -1 point (15 points for the PS1 TIE/Fo + 7 points for PS = 22 points.)

So, assuming that FFG (correctly) added 2 points to the Inquisitor for his ability, and another 7 points to the Inquisitor for his PS, we get a 16 point PS 1 TIE Adv. Prototype. So if the dial for TAP is in the neighborhood of the TIE Advanced, the 1 point premium it would pay over the TIE F/O would be justified by the extra shield. Alternately: Saving a point and getting that awesome dial is an interesting tradeoff.

the dial is in TIE|Fo neighborhood.

And it's PS2 minimum, so more likely a 17 pts\ship.

what's unlikely because Fo Tie is 15, +1 for PS +1 for hull-to-shield upgrade +2 for boost

so 19 is more likely IMHO.

Accuracy Corrector generic TAP's would be the most broken thing ever. You could probably run 5 of them with AC and AT. That would be hilariously unfair.

Accuracy Corrector generic TAP's would be the most broken thing ever. You could probably run 5 of them with AC and AT. That would be hilariously unfair.

Not really. One proton bomb could kill the entire list in a single shot.

But even if not, it's only a 3 ship swarm. A Howlrunner swarm pretty reliably gets 2 hits showing for each ship attacking, and that's 7 ships. And a proton bomb will leave the entire swarm alive!

Accuracy Corrector generic TAP's would be the most broken thing ever. You could probably run 5 of them with AC and AT. That would be hilariously unfair.

nah, "most broken" would go to ATC Inquisitor, a 26 point far superior HLC (because HLCs don't crit and they can trigger thrusters and they provide no guarantees and they don't work at range 1) with room for EPT and thrusters

not that it matters because, at risk of digging up that old bull, the TAPs will not be able to take Tie Advance Only upgrades including the Tie/x1 title

being able to do so would have made the Tie/v1 title D.O.A and an utterly pointless bit of design space and effort. If that were FFG's intention, we'd be receiving these ships with their actual designation, the Tie Advance v1.

Accuracy Corrector generic TAP's would be the most broken thing ever. You could probably run 5 of them with AC and AT. That would be hilariously unfair.

Not really. One proton bomb could kill the entire list in a single shot.

But even if not, it's only a 3 ship swarm. A Howlrunner swarm pretty reliably gets 2 hits showing for each ship attacking, and that's 7 ships. And a proton bomb will leave the entire swarm alive!

Have you run 4 AC Advanced lists? Howl swarms can only get 2 hits if you fly next to howl and/or have a focus to spend. AC on a 2 dice ship is a revelation. Barrel roll, evade, K-turn, fly where-ever and boom! perfect roll every time. It's amazing. 5 Such ships behind autothrusters? Scary.

We haven't really discussed the TAP since the TIE/fo was released. So let's compare, with what me know...

Base TIE/fo - PS 1 with 2/3/3/1 Tech 15 poitns

Base TAP - PS 2 with 2/3/2/2 Missile ???

Actions are almost identical with the difference being the FO can barrel roll and the TAP can boost.

PS 8 FO - 21 points Has a Tech slot and EPT

PS8 TAP - 25 points Has a Missile slot and EPT

The FO has an AMAZING dial. TAP will need to have something to justify the higher cost, or the base will need to be cheaper than the FO. I don't see that happening though. I'm guessing that PS 2 will cost 16 or 17 points.

I think it's safe to say that the Inquisitor's ability is worth 2 points (FFG may only have priced it at 1 point, however). At the same time, the ability of Omega leader is worth... I dunno. It feels like it's worth more than 1 point, but less than the Inquisitor's ability. And FFG seems to have actually priced Omega Leader's ability at -1 point (15 points for the PS1 TIE/Fo + 7 points for PS = 22 points.)

The TIE/fo follows the same pattern for cost as the TIE Fighter does. Mauler Mithel is PS7 and is 5 points more than the PS1 Academy Pilot. It's the same with the Binayre Pirate and N'Dru for the Scum Z-95s.

I think the Inqusitor is a good one to EXPOSE himself at range 3

Nah. Expose uses an action, reduces defense, and increases your offense by roughly as much as either focusing or target locking does.

And, if the Inquisitor Target Locks while having the V1 title equipped, he gets an Evade token. If he has Juke equipped when he has an Evade token, he gets to force the defender to use a Focus token defensively.

What I'm saying is: 3 points on Juke and the Title deliver better results more cheaply than 4 points on Expose.