Towards the bottom of the Protect/Unleash tree there is a duration upgrade that allows one to spend a pip to give the attack burn 2. Since the basic power states that the base damage is equal to willpower, would 3 or 4 burn damage even do damage to enemies factoring in soak?
Soak applies to burn damage, right?
First you sunder their armor, then you shock them, well known tactic with sith
I've been wondering this as well. Burn is nasty from a flamethrower, but the base damage of Unleash is pretty mild. Anyone using it will probably be pretty heavily invested in Willpower, but that's still a maximum of 6. Anyone reasonably Brawny and armored will ignore it completely, while most others will likely be taking only a point or two of damage.
Yes, Soak does apply to Burn, but you're forgetting the Strength upgrades which allow you to increase the Base Damage by up to 4 for each point spent on the upgrade.
Thanks! I guess I need to start looking at the upgrade descriptions more often.
Edit:
After looking at the very basics of damage, it seems that base damage is original weapon damage plus uncancelled hits for any weapon.
After looking at the very basics of damage, it seems that base damage is original plus uncancelled hits for any weapon.
Uncanceled Success symbols give you extra damage; they apply damage on top of the weapon's (or in this case, the Force power's) base damage. So extra Success symbols aren't considered part of "base damage."
Edited by awayputurwpn
That's what I thought as well until my rules lawyer sense started tingling.
Page 165 F&D Core Rulebook.
Oooh. That can get pretty toasty then. Good spotting.
That's what I thought as well until my rules lawyer sense started tingling.
Page 165 F&D Core Rulebook.
I'd say that's being a rules-lawyering munchkin if you run it that way.
Base damage is just that, the base damage. The successes on an attack roll simply add to that value for the one attack, but do not themselves change the base damage value of the weapon
That's what I thought as well until my rules lawyer sense started tingling.
Page 165 F&D Core Rulebook.
Can't open that link here at work, but I do have the CRB handy, and looking at the base damage entry on p165 it works exactly how Donovan Morningfire states. I don't see where even a crafty rules lawyer could twist that around.
I can see the argument behind base damage including successes rolled based on the wording. "Each uncancelled success adds +1 to this base damage, thereby creating a new base damage ". I don't agree that this is how it should be interpreted - I'm with Donovan with this one - but I can see how the case can be argued. It's a poorly worded entry in the rulebook that allows for some interpretation. I believe base damage is the printed damage BEFORE any successes are added, and that's how I'll run it at my table.
That's reasonable. The more I look at it the more munchin-esque it seems; it almost seems like it's bending the rules.
The cool thing is that unleash can be toasty regardless, as it seems that the burn upgrade is indeed worth it and can lead to some "electrifyingly fun" combat scenarios.
Edited by ChxckmateThat's what I thought as well until my rules lawyer sense started tingling.
Page 165 F&D Core Rulebook.
If you look at every Item Quality, it actually specifies what the quality entails. Burn is only "base damage", Linked and Auto-Fire are "base damage plus the number of uncancelled Sucess on the check", and Blast is "Blast rating (plus an additional wound per usual)."
So the wording on item qualities is a bit more concrete, and it basically just reinforces the somewhat badly worded intent of the developers of Base Damage not factoring in Successes.
Yes, Soak does apply to Burn, but you're forgetting the Strength upgrades which allow you to increase the Base Damage by up to 4 for each point spent on the upgrade.
Oh, now this is interesting. I think most sources agree that successes don't increase the Base Damage, but what about Strength Upgrades?
Yes, Soak does apply to Burn, but you're forgetting the Strength upgrades which allow you to increase the Base Damage by up to 4 for each point spent on the upgrade.
Oh, now this is interesting. I think most sources agree that successes don't increase the Base Damage, but what about Strength Upgrades?
IIRC the strength upgrade says that you can spend a force point to add 1 (per strength upgrade) to the base damage of the attack. Oh, and it can spend multiple points to do it multiple times.
I'd say that would boost the strength of the follow-up burn damage as well.
Agreed, the Strength Upgrades for Protect/Unleash are different, in that they specifically say they bolster the base value.
So for the Burn quality, it's probably only really worth it if you're able to activate those Strength Upgrades. And even then, the best you're going to be able to manage is "chip damage" against most non-minion opponents. Which may not seem like a whole lot, but combine that with other high-damage attacks (like your average lightsaber), then it can potentially add up to pretty quickly.
But like with most of the Force powers in this system, it's not an instant "I Win!" button was often a problem with certain Force powers in prior Star Wars RPGs (D6 and Saga Edition, I'm looking directly at you).