Well, 2 of Paul's ships are pretty much the same in scum: Y-wing TLT and the Z. The scum versions have access to better upgrades: great droids and the bugzapper.

Paul's stresshog is impossible to do with scum, you can try some weird HWK build to get something similar, I guess (Palob+TLT seems simple) - removing tokens is a weak version of stress, but you do it all round as opposed to in-arc.

Finally, the high-PS ace with regenerating shields? Cobra ain't it.... I think Xizor might actually be closer, no regeneration, but +1AGI and AT maybe make up for it somewhat.

I propose this, then:

Xizor, VI + Autothrusters

Z-95 + Feedback Array

Y-Wing + TLT + Agromech

HWK Palob + TLT

I guess the feedback array and Palob help you with Aces in some similar ways to the stresshog does. They create dangerous zones for aces.

Xizor is a poor man's Poe, but the Agrothug is notably better than a rebel TLT Y-wing.

Nope.

Mercs (I don't like the word Scum)

DON'T have the stress bot. and that's what the Y is for.

It turns PTL aces to dust.

Palob steals 1 token, okay.

The nother HWK derps their PS in different phase, only Phantoms fear him.

the rest already activated and are already where they want to be.

With 3 attacks it puts 3 stress onto the enemy. in a HUGE CONE of 2-3 range.

Dangerous zone is one thing. DON'T COME LEST YOU BECOME BANTA FOOD zone is another

Xizor has lower survivability, lower skill and no regen.

Geez, man. Can you at least agree with some of his opinions? He didn't say Xizor has the same survivability, PS, or regen. He in fact stated that it's a "poor man's Poe."

Also, as WWHSD has already pointed out - R3A2 TLT does not generate 3 stress. It generates 2.

Scum has two options that are similar but slightly inferior to the 26-point Stress Hog: (1) Spice Runner with TLT & Tactician for 24 pts or (2) Palob with TLT & Tactician for 28 pts.

Both lack the ability to generate stress at R3, but Palob's ability at R1-2 makes up for that somewhat in my opinion.

Spice Runner (TLT & Tactician) vs Stress Hog:

• 2 stress at R2 vs 2 stress R2-3
• 0 stress at R1 vs 1 stress R1
• 3x2 reds 360 arc vs 3x2 front arc & primaries

Not that big of a gap IMO and it's 2 points cheaper. I flew against two HWKs with TLT & Tactician at a tournament yesterday and it definitely felt like I was flying against 2 stress hogs.

Xizor and Poe's survivability are not that simple to compare

Xizor is far more survivable under fire, especially multiple attacks per turn and especially when stressed. without focus, Poe is pathetically easy to kill. The only thing Poe has over him is PS 10 with V.I and r2-d2, which means he can run away and regen. If that capability is not exploited, however, Xizor will easily outlast him with far more effective health (hurray for meatshields!)

plus, Xizor can hit a lot harder with Virago + fire control system

to top it all off, he's even one point cheaper (Xizor + v.i + virago + fcs + thrusters = 37)

honestly, anyone who figures Xizor for a poor man's Poe is really misinterpreting his strength. The only poor man's anything here is Poe, who is a shabby imitation of Corran for a far more reasonable price (only 3 points over naked corran)

Plus of course, Xizor can take Sensor Jammer if he so desires, and between that and Autothrusters simply laugh off TLT's.

or just thrusters

the threat of TLTs overriding Xizor's ability is incredibly exaggerated, and the ability for a high PS Viper (or any ship, really) to minimize TLT attacks from freaking Y-wings is really underrated

but such is the way of the meta boogeyman

Well, 2 of Paul's ships are pretty much the same in scum: Y-wing TLT and the Z. The scum versions have access to better upgrades: great droids and the bugzapper.

Paul's stresshog is impossible to do with scum, you can try some weird HWK build to get something similar, I guess (Palob+TLT seems simple) - removing tokens is a weak version of stress, but you do it all round as opposed to in-arc.

Finally, the high-PS ace with regenerating shields? Cobra ain't it.... I think Xizor might actually be closer, no regeneration, but +1AGI and AT maybe make up for it somewhat.

I propose this, then:

Xizor, VI + Autothrusters

Z-95 + Feedback Array

Y-Wing + TLT + Agromech

HWK Palob + TLT

I guess the feedback array and Palob help you with Aces in some similar ways to the stresshog does. They create dangerous zones for aces.

Xizor is a poor man's Poe, but the Agrothug is notably better than a rebel TLT Y-wing.

Nope.

Mercs (I don't like the word Scum)

DON'T have the stress bot. and that's what the Y is for.

It turns PTL aces to dust.

Palob steals 1 token, okay.

The nother HWK derps their PS in different phase, only Phantoms fear him.

the rest already activated and are already where they want to be.

With 3 attacks it puts 3 stress onto the enemy. in a HUGE CONE of 2-3 range.

Dangerous zone is one thing. DON'T COME LEST YOU BECOME BANTA FOOD zone is another

Xizor has lower survivability, lower skill and no regen.

Geez, man. Can you at least agree with some of his opinions? He didn't say Xizor has the same survivability, PS, or regen. He in fact stated that it's a "poor man's Poe."

Also, as WWHSD has already pointed out - R3A2 TLT does not generate 3 stress. It generates 2.

Scum has two options that are similar but slightly inferior to the 26-point Stress Hog: (1) Spice Runner with TLT & Tactician for 24 pts or (2) Palob with TLT & Tactician for 28 pts.

Both lack the ability to generate stress at R3, but Palob's ability at R1-2 makes up for that somewhat in my opinion.

Spice Runner (TLT & Tactician) vs Stress Hog:

• 2 stress at R2 vs 2 stress R2-3
• 0 stress at R1 vs 1 stress R1
• 3x2 reds 360 arc vs 3x2 front arc & primaries

Not that big of a gap IMO and it's 2 points cheaper. I flew against two HWKs with TLT & Tactician at a tournament yesterday and it definitely felt like I was flying against 2 stress hogs.

Could you point to the place that states that TLT is not two separate attacks

and that it generates 2 attacks not 3?

Could you point to the place that states that TLT is not two separate attacks

and that it generates 2 attacks not 3?

https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/74/3b/743b0e69-1cc6-4ecd-a261-8e2ae9fc3d78/x-wing_faq_v323.pdf

FAQ page 13: "Twin Laser Turret is treated as two separate attacks against the same target. During the second attack, the “Declare Defender and Weapon” step is skipped."

Since R3A2 stress applies at the Declare Defender step, you only get stress from the primary and first TLT attack.

Could you point to the place that states that TLT is not two separate attacks

and that it generates 2 attacks not 3?

https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/74/3b/743b0e69-1cc6-4ecd-a261-8e2ae9fc3d78/x-wing_faq_v323.pdf

FAQ page 13: "Twin Laser Turret is treated as two separate attacks against the same target. During the second attack, the “Declare Defender and Weapon” step is skipped."

Since R3A2 stress applies at the Declare Defender step, you only get stress from the primary and first TLT attack.

Thanks mate, the situation is slightly less grim now.

Alas, even with Wingman you skip the next action phase if you get that two stresses.

Now, if there was any possible way to team R3A2 up with Gunner, on the other hand....

Here's my take on the Scum version of Paul's list:

So looking at what you guys wrote, the scum version of Paul's list is:

Palob with TLT and tactician: double-stress at range 2 only, but steals tokens at range 1-2 and shoots out of arc.

TLT Y-wing with Agromech. Better than rebel TLT Y

Z 95 - same thing

Xizor with VI and Autothrusters - inferior to Poe - does not regen, but can dodge arcs better

I'd rate it as slightly weaker due to Xizor mostly, but quite close in terms of utility. I like it!

Tactician HWKs are incredibly optimistic builds, especially when TLTs only shoot range 1-3 and the HWK primary fires 2 dice at range 1

Palob alone should be enough to replicate the stress control and let the list pile damage onto whatever poor schmuck Palob decides to steal from

I guess its optimistic, but if it does work... the satisfaction has to be immense!

What other nifty trick would you recommend for the 2 points? Bodyguard on Palob? Bugazpper on the Z?

I'm definitely a fan of Feedback Array on the Z-95 and might even prefer it to Tactician.

However, knowing that your opponent wants to get out of range 2 of Palob's TLT, the Z has good potential for blocking. That may make it worthwhile to keep Tactician because it makes your opponent more predictable. But I'd still like to have Feedback Array if I could get it.

I dont think tactician on a Hawk with tlt generates two stress, only one ... Range two in arc of course...

Tactician + 2 TLT attacks = 2 stress

Stressbot + 2 TLT attacks = 1 stress, but +1 stress if the Y-wing had BTL title and fired it primary first.

Tactician and stressbot have different wordings.

I guess its optimistic, but if it does work... the satisfaction has to be immense!

What other nifty trick would you recommend for the 2 points? Bodyguard on Palob? Bugazpper on the Z?

2 point initiative bid

not even kidding, none of the other options are nearly as appealing

the alternative is drop a point to get Virago + FCS on xizor, which will make that late game ship far more potent and far less ignorable in the early game

outlaw tech is also pretty decent on that bleh dial, and TLT is always hungry for mods

Xizor and Guri are going to get a lot more tricksy, remember, when the scum cloak hits! The starviper's illicit slot is pretty underused at the moment (glitterstress is a bit of a pain for them), so fingers crossed that the 39pt Xizor is as good as I'm imagining him to be

Tactician HWKs are incredibly optimistic builds, especially when TLTs only shoot range 1-3 and the HWK primary fires 2 dice at range 1

Palob alone should be enough to replicate the stress control and let the list pile damage onto whatever poor schmuck Palob decides to steal from

I don't think it's incredibly optimistic when you're running multiples. Kinetic Operator's triple K-wing TLT Tactician list acts on the same principle and it was devastatingly effective.

Overall I'd prefer K-wings for their maneuverability, but it's also 7 points more expensive. Two HWKs with TLT Tactician costs you 48 points as opposed to two Wardens at 62.

Xizor and Guri are going to get a lot more tricksy, remember, when the scum cloak hits! The starviper's illicit slot is pretty underused at the moment (glitterstress is a bit of a pain for them), so fingers crossed that the 39pt Xizor is as good as I'm imagining him to be

We will have unstable cloak, but not adv cloaking the phantoms have, so it's a rare used miracle not permanent troll state :C

What other nifty trick would you recommend for the 2 points? Bodyguard on Palob? Bugazpper on the Z?

Bugzapper! Such a great card, and sits nicely alongside tlts in some doughnut-related situations.

Xizor and Guri are going to get a lot more tricksy, remember, when the scum cloak hits! The starviper's illicit slot is pretty underused at the moment (glitterstress is a bit of a pain for them), so fingers crossed that the 39pt Xizor is as good as I'm imagining him to be

We will have unstable cloak, but not adv cloaking the phantoms have, so it's a rare used miracle not permanent troll state :C

Nah, for me it's more about the added manoeuvrability and speed it lends the viper, not to mention the troll-decloak-blocks that suit its playstyle. But the 'runaway' button might come in handy a bit too I suppose

Tactician HWKs are incredibly optimistic builds, especially when TLTs only shoot range 1-3 and the HWK primary fires 2 dice at range 1

Palob alone should be enough to replicate the stress control and let the list pile damage onto whatever poor schmuck Palob decides to steal from

I don't think it's incredibly optimistic when you're running multiples. Kinetic Operator's triple K-wing TLT Tactician list acts on the same principle and it was devastatingly effective.

Overall I'd prefer K-wings for their maneuverability, but it's also 7 points more expensive. Two HWKs with TLT Tactician costs you 48 points as opposed to two Wardens at 62.

greater durability

greater maneuverability (esp SLAM, which is invaluable for setting up approaches and which you can always fall back on to block fools if tactician falls through)

a primary weapon that doesn't suck ass and is a PWT

and the late game monstrosity that is Miranda

all these things point to the K being far more effective as a tactician vessel than the HWK can ever hope to be, regardless of the point difference between them

Hmm gonna have to re.work my triple hawk build to include tactician .. drop my dead mans off my z ...

Thanks for the clear up, ie wording on the cards

Tactician HWKs are incredibly optimistic builds, especially when TLTs only shoot range 1-3 and the HWK primary fires 2 dice at range 1

Palob alone should be enough to replicate the stress control and let the list pile damage onto whatever poor schmuck Palob decides to steal from

I don't think it's incredibly optimistic when you're running multiples. Kinetic Operator's triple K-wing TLT Tactician list acts on the same principle and it was devastatingly effective.

Overall I'd prefer K-wings for their maneuverability, but it's also 7 points more expensive. Two HWKs with TLT Tactician costs you 48 points as opposed to two Wardens at 62.

greater durability

greater maneuverability (esp SLAM, which is invaluable for setting up approaches and which you can always fall back on to block fools if tactician falls through)

a primary weapon that doesn't suck ass and is a PWT

and the late game monstrosity that is Miranda

all these things point to the K being far more effective as a tactician vessel than the HWK can ever hope to be, regardless of the point difference between them

It's a 30% point increase, I should hope it's better. And I already stated I prefer the K-wing for its maneuverability, so I'm not sure what you're trying to convince me of.

My point is that HWK is viable. And not just for people being "incredibly optimistic."

the HWK is viable, but not as a tactician vessel

seriously, it's worse than the lambda when it comes to keeping things in arc and it already has to struggle just keeping things away from its doughnut hole; nevermind maintaining arc at TLT's minimum range with the world's piddliest primary to fall back on