Been brainstorming new possible scum lists that are competitive and I had a fun idea if trying out a scum version of Paul heaver ' s winning list

Talonbane cobra

Predator, engine, glitters time

2x y wing thugs, TLT, unhinged astromech

black sun z95

Thoughts, do you think scum has good 4 ship builds, I know I have been playing with a build based on having a fire spray and yv666 and maybe squeeze two decent ships in.

Do any of you have any good ideas for 3-5 ship scum building, besides the obvious 4 TLT

I played the list in my signature against TLT Y-Wings and it tore them to pieces. Ion control means you can stay in that range one bubble forever. The damage output is low, though, so I had to push the last enemy Y-Wing off of the board.

As for another 4 ship Scum list, I've had some fun with this one:

Xizor (vi, virago, FCS, thrusters)

Thug (ICT, r4, BTL-a4) [25]

Thug (ICT, r4, BTL-a4) [25]

Pirate [12]

[99]

up to blacksun soldier, or one ICT thug to a TLT r4 (no title) if so inclined

Been brainstorming new possible scum lists that are competitive and I had a fun idea if trying out a scum version of Paul heaver ' s winning list

Talonbane cobra

Predator, engine, glitters time

2x y wing thugs, TLT, unhinged astromech

black sun z95

Thoughts, do you think scum has good 4 ship builds, I know I have been playing with a build based on having a fire spray and yv666 and maybe squeeze two decent ships in.

Do any of you have any good ideas for 3-5 ship scum building, besides the obvious 4 TLT

Cobra needs DAT PTL

Cobra with PTL+Engine+Glitterstim

and

Black sun ace-Wingman

have worked wonders against foes with limited movement capabilities

Been brainstorming new possible scum lists that are competitive and I had a fun idea if trying out a scum version of Paul heaver ' s winning list

Talonbane cobra

Predator, engine, glitters time

2x y wing thugs, TLT, unhinged astromech

black sun z95

Thoughts, do you think scum has good 4 ship builds, I know I have been playing with a build based on having a fire spray and yv666 and maybe squeeze two decent ships in.

Do any of you have any good ideas for 3-5 ship scum building, besides the obvious 4 TLT

I get what you're going for, but I don't think this is a true "scum-ified" Worlds build.

Look at Paul's list in terms of ship roles, not in terms of direct counterparts:

• Poe is an ace- and turret- counter, designed to move after PS 9 ships like Fel and use autothrusters/R2-D2 with impunity.
• The stresshog is another ace-counter and general control ship; it creates a no-fly zone for things that want actions (ever).
• The TLT Y-Wing is area control to deal with non-AT arc-dodgers like Vader, and to put some damage into Fat Han and the like.
• The Bandit is filler for a bit more damage output.

Scum doesn't really have equivalents for a lot of those. Talonbane sorta works in Poe's role if you give him VI and glitterstim, but even then, his survivability is limited. Fett with VI and Tactician is a solid ace counter, but is too expensive. And the only other ship with high enough PS is Serissu, who's in a Scyk.

Likewise, you can kinda argue for something like a YV-666 with Tactician as a control ship, but it's too costly and too range-limited. I'd sooner say HWK with TLT and Tactician, because at least then you can double-stress.

In those terms, I'd say the scummy version of the list is something like

Talonbane Cobra is the least like Poe ship you could find, he has high damage output that dies way too quick. Xizor with VI and Autothrusters is much more likely.

Xizor w/ VI, Auto thrusters

Torkil Mux w/ TLT, Tactician, Moldy Crow

Syndicate Thug w/ TLT

Binayre Pirate

...is closer, though ideally you would want Palob instead (for mind games) and a feedback array on the Pirate (for ace zapping), but that involves dropping the Crow (but the crow will help keep the HWK alive).

I've had some fun with:

2 x Black Sun Ace with Crackshot

Hired gun with Twin Laser Turret

2 x Black Sun Soldier

yeah. poe has regen AND doesn't eat s$%^ against anything attacking him. Cobra vs TLT? GG.

Like seriously. I love the idea of Cobra. But he just SUCKS in this meta. And makes me sad. I with the Khiaslkdfjnskdmf was both more interesting and more powerful.

I was actually thinking about this the other day, too (Paul's list in other factions). What do you suppose the imperial version of his list would look like? Going off of Ailowynn's post, we have:

Look at Paul's list in terms of ship roles, not in terms of direct counterparts:

•Poe is an ace- and turret- counter, designed to move after PS 9 ships like Fel and use autothrusters/R2-D2 with impunity.

•The stresshog is another ace-counter and general control ship; it creates a no-fly zone for things that want actions (ever).

•The TLT Y-Wing is area control to deal with non-AT arc-dodgers like Vader, and to put some damage into Fat Han and the like.

•The Bandit is filler for a bit more damage output.

Quite frankly, the imperials don't have a lot of the pieces that make up that list- no regeneration, no cheap turrets, and no range 2-3 guaranteed double-stress. But this is the closest I've been able to come up with:

•Soontir Fel, PtL, Royal Guard title, Autothrusters, Hull upgrade - 35 puts. (No, he's not above PS9, but if initiative is in your favor he can still do all the things Poe was meant to do- hunt aces and turrets)

•Omnicron Group Pilot, Tactician, Gunner - 28 pts (Tactician + gunner is the Empire's only option for 2 guaranteed stress, and as such the OGP is the only ship in the right point range that can pull it off. No I didn't say this was an especially smart build, but it is the closest equivalent to the stress-hog)

•Academy TIE - 12 pts.

•Academy TIE - 12 pts.

•Academy TIE - 12 pts. (The Empire doesn't have any ships that can carry TLT and create that nice big double-attack bubble, but 2 TIE fighters pretty much does the same job. And then the third TIE takes the place of the Bandit).

Total: 99 points

I'm not too sure about the OGP's place in the above list, but other than that it's fairly solid. You could make a case to replace the shuttle with a Sigma Phantom pilot with tactician and SPA, or with Mara Jade instead, but neither of those give double stress. You could also make the case to replace Soontir with someone like Vader or Juno or Rexlar, along with VI, so that you've got a PS 10+ Ace, but none of them can take Autothrusters, so they aren't going to be able to tank TLT shots like Soontir can.

yeah. poe has regen AND doesn't eat s$%^ against anything attacking him. Cobra vs TLT? GG.

Like seriously. I love the idea of Cobra. But he just SUCKS in this meta. And makes me sad. I with the Khiaslkdfjnskdmf was both more interesting and more powerful.

because Kihraz is at par with old unfixed T-65

and meta progressed from that point on. GREATLY.

IF we see something else like scum faction "get yourself a sensor for a fee" upgrades, he's going to be fun-play only ship.

But generally Cobra CAN ruin your day, especially wen Razzi is around

I was actually thinking about this the other day, too (Paul's list in other factions). What do you suppose the imperial version of his list would look like? Going off of Ailowynn's post, we have:

Look at Paul's list in terms of ship roles, not in terms of direct counterparts:

•Poe is an ace- and turret- counter, designed to move after PS 9 ships like Fel and use autothrusters/R2-D2 with impunity.

•The stresshog is another ace-counter and general control ship; it creates a no-fly zone for things that want actions (ever).

•The TLT Y-Wing is area control to deal with non-AT arc-dodgers like Vader, and to put some damage into Fat Han and the like.

•The Bandit is filler for a bit more damage output.

Quite frankly, the imperials don't have a lot of the pieces that make up that list- no regeneration, no cheap turrets, and no range 2-3 guaranteed double-stress. But this is the closest I've been able to come up with:

•Soontir Fel, PtL, Royal Guard title, Autothrusters, Hull upgrade - 35 puts. (No, he's not above PS9, but if initiative is in your favor he can still do all the things Poe was meant to do- hunt aces and turrets)

•Omnicron Group Pilot, Tactician, Gunner - 28 pts (Tactician + gunner is the Empire's only option for 2 guaranteed stress, and as such the OGP is the only ship in the right point range that can pull it off. No I didn't say this was an especially smart build, but it is the closest equivalent to the stress-hog)

•Academy TIE - 12 pts.

•Academy TIE - 12 pts.

•Academy TIE - 12 pts. (The Empire doesn't have any ships that can carry TLT and create that nice big double-attack bubble, but 2 TIE fighters pretty much does the same job. And then the third TIE takes the place of the Bandit).

Total: 99 points

I'm not too sure about the OGP's place in the above list, but other than that it's fairly solid. You could make a case to replace the shuttle with a Sigma Phantom pilot with tactician and SPA, or with Mara Jade instead, but neither of those give double stress. You could also make the case to replace Soontir with someone like Vader or Juno or Rexlar, along with VI, so that you've got a PS 10+ Ace, but none of them can take Autothrusters, so they aren't going to be able to tank TLT shots like Soontir can.

The imperial equivalent of the stress hogg is not a Shuttle with Tactician, it is a Shuttle with Vader (you could technically use Gunner as well if you really wanted to, but it's not super necessary).

Remember the key to Paul's list was just take good ships. Soontir Fel is a good ship, the Doomshuttle is a good ship, Whisper is a good ship, etc.

The imperial equivalent of the stress hogg is not a Shuttle with Tactician, it is a Shuttle with Vader (you could technically use Gunner as well if you really wanted to, but it's not super necessary).

Remember the key to Paul's list was just take good ships. Soontir Fel is a good ship, the Doomshuttle is a good ship, Whisper is a good ship, etc.

the key to Paul's victory was using SKILL

And taking ships that wreck current meta

Meta is full of action-dependent arcdodger freaks? STRESSHOG FTW!

Meta is full of attrition-leaning turrets? AUTOTHRUSTER+REGENERATION PONY DAMERONY FTW

And Z-95. Because PAUL's Z-95 wrecked more ships then our Hans ever did xD

The best homage an imperial list can make to the top table at the worlds this year would be to get itself a nice little epsilon blocker to run the same role as Nathan's prototype a-wing. That thing just shone, and it's the one ship in either list that we have something similar to.

Either that or copy the Pheaver's list, but give 'em all an imperial paintjob

And Mara Jade pin-up on the side of the Z-95.

yeah. poe has regen AND doesn't eat s$%^ against anything attacking him. Cobra vs TLT? GG.

Like seriously. I love the idea of Cobra. But he just SUCKS in this meta. And makes me sad. I with the Khiaslkdfjnskdmf was both more interesting and more powerful.

Couldn't disagree more.

Also, if you GG on the reveal of a TLT in your opponent's list, you're doing it wrong.

yeah. poe has regen AND doesn't eat s$%^ against anything attacking him. Cobra vs TLT? GG.

Like seriously. I love the idea of Cobra. But he just SUCKS in this meta. And makes me sad. I with the Khiaslkdfjnskdmf was both more interesting and more powerful.

Couldn't disagree more.

Also, if you GG on the reveal of a TLT in your opponent's list, you're doing it wrong.

IF there's no stress-Y your chances are good with boosting into R1

IF there's one, chances get slimmer and slimmer.

I've used him with Wingman BlacksunAce, but that's 1 stress, and you've got three.

Kobra is good, but Kihraz it at par with T-65.

T-70 is...plainly put...better.

And Poe is super-efficient with focus-eating-regen droid

How about something like this:

http://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Scum%20and%20Villainy&d=v3!s!127:135,61,-1:-1:-1:;123:135,-1,-1,-1:-1:-1:;137:140,-1,128:-1:-1:;137:140,-1,128:-1:-1:

It's still not as good as the original list, though. Hoping that changes with Wave 8 when scum gets more tactical options. Currently the only options to get an anti-ace ace are Boba or Cobra with VI, both of which are pricey and reduce your flexibility in other areas. You could try switching the HWK with VI/stim/cluster Ndru. Drop the stress mechanic entirely in order to focus down a TLT or an ace before it has a chance to do anything.

Kobra is good, but Kihraz it at par with T-65.

Nope. You can't fit 5 T-65's into a single 100 point list, or do a white (or any) 1-turn, for a start.

T-70 is...plainly put...better.

The generic PS2's 4 points more expensive, I should hope they are better! They still don't have that all-important white 1-turn, though.

And Poe is super-efficient with focus-eating-regen droid

Now you're just stating the obvious.

Kobra is good, but Kihraz it at par with T-65.

Nope. You can't fit 5 T-65's into a single 100 point list, or do a white (or any) 1-turn, for a start.

T-70 is...plainly put...better.

The generic PS2's 4 points more expensive, I should hope they are better! They still don't have that all-important white 1-turn, though.

X-wing has 1 straight, 3 turn.

Kihraz has 1 turn, extra K-turn

X-wing has 1 more shield

Kihraz has 1 more hull

kihraz IS at par with X-wing, trading abilities to go super slow and super-fast for extra maneuverability

and loses in the shielding department.

T-70 is plainly better.

"new age Kihraz" if we bring T65-T70 parallels

Would be 2-4 points more expensive, have 1 extra shield and in-built boost and talon\loop turns.

While being able to field 5 you still won't outperform T-70's

Dumb comparison of Cobra with Engine upgrade (to get into the boost-fest) with poe

Cobra is 1 point more expensive, has no long-term upgrading capabilities, no damage mitigation due to autothrusters.

Can possibly deal more damage, has slight advantages in close quarters when not under stress.

is completely outperformed in survivability.

You've got something else to say?

In the game of Boostwing... you either have the boost or you buy the boost.

Well, 2 of Paul's ships are pretty much the same in scum: Y-wing TLT and the Z. The scum versions have access to better upgrades: great droids and the bugzapper.

Paul's stresshog is impossible to do with scum, you can try some weird HWK build to get something similar, I guess (Palob+TLT seems simple) - removing tokens is a weak version of stress, but you do it all round as opposed to in-arc.

Finally, the high-PS ace with regenerating shields? Cobra ain't it.... I think Xizor might actually be closer, no regeneration, but +1AGI and AT maybe make up for it somewhat.

I propose this, then:

Xizor, VI + Autothrusters

Z-95 + Feedback Array

Y-Wing + TLT + Agromech

HWK Palob + TLT

I guess the feedback array and Palob help you with Aces in some similar ways to the stresshog does. They create dangerous zones for aces.

Xizor is a poor man's Poe, but the Agrothug is notably better than a rebel TLT Y-wing.

I've used him with Wingman BlacksunAce, but that's 1 stress, and you've got three.

Why three? A Y-Wing with TLT, BTL-A4, and R3-A2 can only dish out two stress per round.

Talonbane with VI, GS, EU is perfectly viable at any tournament. I wouldn't be stunned at all if you won a tournament using that setup with all the PS9 Palp Aces running around.

It might not be Worlds-competitive, but if you don't run into too many TLT spam lists (which aren't as popular as people would think) it's a very solid ship.

As for the Kihraxz vs T-70 discussion...

The lack of autothrusters is what separates the Kihraxz/TC from the T-70/Poe for me. With VI, Poe doesn't have any direct counters whereas Kihraxz is still very susceptible to TLT spam.

And the regen capabilities of the Rebels will probably never see equivalence on Scum and Imperial ships because it's simply not their playstyle IMO.

Well, 2 of Paul's ships are pretty much the same in scum: Y-wing TLT and the Z. The scum versions have access to better upgrades: great droids and the bugzapper.

Paul's stresshog is impossible to do with scum, you can try some weird HWK build to get something similar, I guess (Palob+TLT seems simple) - removing tokens is a weak version of stress, but you do it all round as opposed to in-arc.

Finally, the high-PS ace with regenerating shields? Cobra ain't it.... I think Xizor might actually be closer, no regeneration, but +1AGI and AT maybe make up for it somewhat.

I propose this, then:

Xizor, VI + Autothrusters

Z-95 + Feedback Array

Y-Wing + TLT + Agromech

HWK Palob + TLT

I guess the feedback array and Palob help you with Aces in some similar ways to the stresshog does. They create dangerous zones for aces.

Xizor is a poor man's Poe, but the Agrothug is notably better than a rebel TLT Y-wing.

You should have just liked ID X T s post from further up the thread.

saddest thing about Paul's list is that it highlights scum's lack of stress control Closest thing we have is Palob, who is downright troll with his "action-denial" via blatant theft

if trying to run Scum-heaver pushes Xizor into his rightful spot in the limelight, however, then all's good. His only failings are being unable to take r2-d2 and the fact that people are loathe to recognize an amazing pilot when he's staring them in the face

Well, 2 of Paul's ships are pretty much the same in scum: Y-wing TLT and the Z. The scum versions have access to better upgrades: great droids and the bugzapper.

Paul's stresshog is impossible to do with scum, you can try some weird HWK build to get something similar, I guess (Palob+TLT seems simple) - removing tokens is a weak version of stress, but you do it all round as opposed to in-arc.

Finally, the high-PS ace with regenerating shields? Cobra ain't it.... I think Xizor might actually be closer, no regeneration, but +1AGI and AT maybe make up for it somewhat.

I propose this, then:

Xizor, VI + Autothrusters

Z-95 + Feedback Array

Y-Wing + TLT + Agromech

HWK Palob + TLT

I guess the feedback array and Palob help you with Aces in some similar ways to the stresshog does. They create dangerous zones for aces.

Xizor is a poor man's Poe, but the Agrothug is notably better than a rebel TLT Y-wing.

Nope.

Mercs (I don't like the word Scum)

DON'T have the stress bot. and that's what the Y is for.

It turns PTL aces to dust.

Palob steals 1 token, okay.

The nother HWK derps their PS in different phase, only Phantoms fear him.

the rest already activated and are already where they want to be.

With 3 attacks it puts 3 stress onto the enemy. in a HUGE CONE of 2-3 range.

Dangerous zone is one thing. DON'T COME LEST YOU BECOME BANTA FOOD zone is another

Xizor has lower survivability, lower skill and no regen.