Point it out and why the rules are there. Show how you can gauge range now with just your head.

And if they are obstinate sour sods then don't play with them.

There's a few sods here too.

So a lot of new people picking up the game lately. In no small part thanks to X-Wing Night! However. Seems like people are not clicking on some basic rules and its starting to bother me because the term "house rule" is starting to rear its ugly head.

How do I get people playing the game properly? I see a lot of hand measuring, checking dials during activation, the range ruler coming out before combat, and other things. And not just during my games either, just yesterday I overheard another player tell another that "if pre-measuring isn't allowed then the shop should house rule it so that it is because space ships have sensors...".

Um... No. This game is too easy to learn to start house ruling it!

But how do I whip all these new players into shape without seeming like a jerk? Actually the jerk status isn't such a bother, I'd just like everyone to follow the rules.

So you feel everyone should play the game in the manner you feel is correct? And not just play to the letter at tournaments, you feel even casual "X wing night" games should be like a tournament? That's So "fly casual" of you, I bet everyone thinks just like you, or more likely they don't.

If people want to house rule the game and those they play it with agree it's not your position to tell them it's wrong. It doesn't matter if you think the game is great as written or how simple it is, others may not feel that way and their opinion is just as valid as yours.

If you've been pressuring people to play the way you want you are a jerk, no reason to worry about how you come off now. The fact you even stated you don't care if they think you're a jerk if you can get them to do as you wish says terms worse than jerk are more appropriate.

Let the people play as they wish and house rule as they wish as long as the other players aren't taking issue since the individual players are the only ones that can make any judgement on the matter. If you don't like to play people who don't play like you do then just don't play them, just like they have the option to not play you. If you push people to get your preferred play style you will destroy the group and chase off people that might play later.

Mark my words, proceed at your own peril!

Striker8: X-wing is a competitive game, one that is well suited to club and store level play. At any such level, it's important to play the game in a way that helps you to become a good, fair and amiable opponent, whether the person opposite you is from your neighbourhood or from another continent.

This is important: the game is well supported on the tourny level, and its success stems partly from the hardcore support its players give it, which in turn allows for ffg to employ, imo, the best miniature designers in the business at the moment. Their constant attention, tweaking, and design philosophy are all leading to a game of real beauty, and I think people will look back to this period of X-wing as a golden age of game design. No joke. Such a game has to be trusted - it's worth playing it the right way.

Further, the rules are straight forward, robust, intuitive and keep games from getting stale - precisely through such mechanics as pilot skill, dial programming, and 'blind' maneuvers, where you have to cross your fingers sometimes. These are all strengths of the game, and they are all the first things to go in sloppy play.

Now, darkcloak is asking for advice as to how to help a new community gain roots in his local store, and that has a lot to do with playing the game to its full potential, introducing competitive play, and avoiding player conflict/b**thurt. All of these things are achieved by making sure people play by the rules.

If you were talking about playing on your kitchen table with your 10 year old, or with some friends after work with a stack of beer and pretzels, that's another thing.

Yet you start throwing your weight around, going straight for the morality line - 'doing x makes you a bad person', and move onto just plain name calling.

I, and a lot of other readers here, I'm guessing, will be thinking that you're well into the wrong here and owe the OP an apology for flying off the handle.

Mark my words, proceed at your own peril!

If only you had marked them too.

Gaming is done together.

Words to play by.

Rather than having the mindset of "enforcing" right off the bat, try the mindset of /encouraging/! As others have said, work with the store to organize a tournament, and leading up to the tourney date, remind players that they will be held accountable to tournament rules, so it encourages them to use the same rules during the casual nights. Remember, the goal to get as many people playing as possible, so be careful not to scare some away by being too forceful too soon.

Good Luck

Like this:

I agree! One of the other things I hate is when people put tokens on their ships. Just put them on the table next to them. I have had many games where the guy removes his token and bumps his ship. This drives me crazy, especially when he puts his target locks on my ships bases. Several times I know they bumped me doing it.

Then you go to shoot and are mm out of range.

Please keep tokens off ships!!!

Thanks,

get a sling shot and shoot attack dice at them!!

Half the things people call house rules is really just sloppy play that causes arguments and hard feelings.

That said on the subject of player decorum listen to nothing ParaGomba says, that is if you want to actually have people willingly play you.

Our group plays in a shop not a house so we can't have "house rules"

I don't believe in house rules for any game. It's ok to change it up for a game if both players want to give a tie fighter a free HLC but it should not be a rule for every game. Try talk to the person who owns the store or who keeps track of these new rules and try reminding them the rules are there to create balance for all and the next player who comes in the door might not like the rules others play by and not come back

Striker8

I think my previous statement speaks for itself. I'll organize a tournament and I'll expect people to play by the tournament rules. The winner will get something awesome. Its a really cool shop and when I walk in the door I always get a big hello from everyone in there so I'm pretty sure this evil plot to make people play by the rules will fail miserably.

I had better just give up now and start slipping those shield tokens onto my ships when no one is looking. Just gotta be careful being an Imp player. Might look bad if suddenly Fels Wrath had Experimental Interface AND two shields...

And let's get this straight. I'm not here for dramatics! :forcelightningcrackles: We shall enforce the Emperor's will in all settings.

Ahem. In a good way. The Jedi Council rules wisely and with patience...

Anyways. Thread title may be off putting as some pointed out. However, I am just looking to get a good club going and the store owners are behind me. We want to get into the FFG program and to do that we need to all become better players. Myself included. I may joke about destroying upstart apprentices with force lightning during forum debates, but in reality? I just want to have fun and make a killer gaming club. So... No more fly cas' jibes huh?

Striker8

I think my previous statement speaks for itself. I'll organize a tournament and I'll expect people to play by the tournament rules. The winner will get something awesome. Its a really cool shop and when I walk in the door I always get a big hello from everyone in there so I'm pretty sure this evil plot to make people play by the rules will fail miserably.

I had better just give up now and start slipping those shield tokens onto my ships when no one is looking. Just gotta be careful being an Imp player. Might look bad if suddenly Fels Wrath had Experimental Interface AND two shields...

And let's get this straight. I'm not here for dramatics! :forcelightningcrackles: We shall enforce the Emperor's will in all settings.

Ahem. In a good way. The Jedi Council rules wisely and with patience...

Or it might just look bad that you are using fels wrath...

Oh snap!

3 points for Shake.

... 3 more points for a sweet Av pic.

Tell your opponent that you'd like to practice for tournament play. Gently remind them of rules and things will slowly change.

point them to the official ffg rules for tournament etc.

if they handwave it, just tell em that at least when they hit regionals etc there really is no room for houserules.

also house-rules have their name for a reason.

I'm all for "flying causal", but that also means to follow the rules as good as you can. the casual-part is for those minor errors no-one does intentionally.

deliberately ignoring parts is NOT casual, it is rude to the person your playing with and probably doesn't know about -your- houserules.

imagine a 100p tournament with 100 different houserules.. chaos. chaos a.d. disorder unleashed.. ;-)

That assumes that any of those people care about regionals. I play by the rules and I don't care about going to regionals, and these guys sound way more casual than me.

Guys, stop encouraging OP to be ruthless and dickish about enforcing rules. That will just kill the X-Wing community he's trying to build. Offering prizes in a tournament that requires proper following of the rules is the best suggestion so far.

Striker8, these guys are playing in a store at what may be sanctioned events. House rules should not apply there. He isn't going to their houses and telling them how to play. X-Wing is not so broken that it requires house rules to become playable, so those house rules have no place at events run by the store.

So a lot of new people picking up the game lately. In no small part thanks to X-Wing Night! However. Seems like people are not clicking on some basic rules and its starting to bother me because the term "house rule" is starting to rear its ugly head.

How do I get people playing the game properly? I see a lot of hand measuring, checking dials during activation, the range ruler coming out before combat, and other things. And not just during my games either, just yesterday I overheard another player tell another that "if pre-measuring isn't allowed then the shop should house rule it so that it is because space ships have sensors...".

Um... No. This game is too easy to learn to start house ruling it!

But how do I whip all these new players into shape without seeming like a jerk? Actually the jerk status isn't such a bother, I'd just like everyone to follow the rules.

So you feel everyone should play the game in the manner you feel is correct? And not just play to the letter at tournaments, you feel even casual "X wing night" games should be like a tournament? That's So "fly casual" of you, I bet everyone thinks just like you, or more likely they don't.

If people want to house rule the game and those they play it with agree it's not your position to tell them it's wrong. It doesn't matter if you think the game is great as written or how simple it is, others may not feel that way and their opinion is just as valid as yours.

If you've been pressuring people to play the way you want you are a jerk, no reason to worry about how you come off now. The fact you even stated you don't care if they think you're a jerk if you can get them to do as you wish says terms worse than jerk are more appropriate.

Let the people play as they wish and house rule as they wish as long as the other players aren't taking issue since the individual players are the only ones that can make any judgement on the matter. If you don't like to play people who don't play like you do then just don't play them, just like they have the option to not play you. If you push people to get your preferred play style you will destroy the group and chase off people that might play later.

Mark my words, proceed at your own peril!

Yep, he wants to force his good taste on people. Nothing wrong with that.

If someone with good taste got into radio and just forced his good taste down others throats we could hear the likes of Edith Piaf, The Seekers, The Mamas & The Papas, Judy Collins, and other "If you don't like these musicians you're a bad person" tier musicians on the radio.

But nope, ******* Hotel California and Nickelback and Nicki Minaj it is. "Hey man, stop forcing your good taste on others, if you don't like it just don't play dude." "You just want the Phantom nerfed because you just want to play swarm."

So a lot of new people picking up the game lately. In no small part thanks to X-Wing Night! However. Seems like people are not clicking on some basic rules and its starting to bother me because the term "house rule" is starting to rear its ugly head.

How do I get people playing the game properly? I see a lot of hand measuring, checking dials during activation, the range ruler coming out before combat, and other things. And not just during my games either, just yesterday I overheard another player tell another that "if pre-measuring isn't allowed then the shop should house rule it so that it is because space ships have sensors...".

Um... No. This game is too easy to learn to start house ruling it!

But how do I whip all these new players into shape without seeming like a jerk? Actually the jerk status isn't such a bother, I'd just like everyone to follow the rules.

So you feel everyone should play the game in the manner you feel is correct? And not just play to the letter at tournaments, you feel even casual "X wing night" games should be like a tournament? That's So "fly casual" of you, I bet everyone thinks just like you, or more likely they don't.

If people want to house rule the game and those they play it with agree it's not your position to tell them it's wrong. It doesn't matter if you think the game is great as written or how simple it is, others may not feel that way and their opinion is just as valid as yours.

If you've been pressuring people to play the way you want you are a jerk, no reason to worry about how you come off now. The fact you even stated you don't care if they think you're a jerk if you can get them to do as you wish says terms worse than jerk are more appropriate.

Let the people play as they wish and house rule as they wish as long as the other players aren't taking issue since the individual players are the only ones that can make any judgement on the matter. If you don't like to play people who don't play like you do then just don't play them, just like they have the option to not play you. If you push people to get your preferred play style you will destroy the group and chase off people that might play later.

Mark my words, proceed at your own peril!

Yep, he wants to force his good taste on people. Nothing wrong with that.

If someone with good taste got into radio and just forced his good taste down others throats we could hear the likes of Edith Piaf, The Seekers, The Mamas & The Papas, Judy Collins, and other "If you don't like these musicians you're a bad person" tier musicians on the radio.

But nope, ******* Hotel California and Nickelback and Nicki Minaj it is. "Hey man, stop forcing your good taste on others, if you don't like it just don't play dude." "You just want the Phantom nerfed because you just want to play swarm."

I disagree with that opinion. what you feel is "undebateably good" music I find pretty boring and I would prefer just about any thrash band, even Metallica. I don't care if the music is considered good if I don't enjoy it. Do I want to be radio stations all metal? No, I don't care, I just don't listen to the radio myself. Forcing your taste on to someone is a bad habit and annoying as hell.

On the topic of premeasuring and stuff: I am fine with it on casual games. I want to practice, and if I practice against someone with perfect estimation powers I learn more. I don't play to win, I play to get better. I do however always tell my opponents who do it that it is tournament illegal and they should be aware of it. A lot of them stoped doing it on that basis so they could practice guessing ranges and arcs better themselves.

Just tell them you like to play by tournament rules so you can keep practice with the correct rulings. You don't like getting rules mixed up in the middle of a tournament.

Yep, he wants to force his good taste on people. Nothing wrong with that.

If someone with good taste got into radio and just forced his good taste down others throats we could hear the likes of Edith Piaf, The Seekers, The Mamas & The Papas, Judy Collins, and other "If you don't like these musicians you're a bad person" tier musicians on the radio.

But nope, ******* Hotel California and Nickelback and Nicki Minaj it is. "Hey man, stop forcing your good taste on others, if you don't like it just don't play dude." "You just want the Phantom nerfed because you just want to play swarm."

Dickishly enforcing tournament rules?

Goddamn. Its like y'all Casuals just want to read into the Force lightning jokes just way too far dontcha?

You know I stick by my words. If you wanna play a game its worth it to play it right. How are you supposed to learn anything in life if you just keep making up new easier rules? This is why kids get participation medals, I hate to say it, but we are a bunch of wimps. I'd never in a million years let my kid cheat at a game, especially in public where his actions reflect on me as a parent. Do you even know the amount of times I had my butt smacked in public, wearing a kid-leash? A lot. I got the beats for a lot of stuff and you know what? I'm fine! Holy crap, now that I'm 30 I can kinda see the value in all those tanned hides!

But I digress.

A little bit of discipline goes a long way. At any rate its my **** club and if I wanna run it into the ground by expecting my members to play by the rules well then... That's my prerogative.

However, since I'm only a jerk to people when they cross that arbitrary line (as dilineated by yours truly) I'll leave this thread as I made it. With good intentions.

Thanks everyone who had good ideas for enforcing proper gameplay (ball peen hammer jokes aside) and I will be implementing some of them today in fact! When I go down to that shop that despises me I'll say "hey guys lets put on a FFG OP practice tourney!" and the owners will say "get out dude who has literally sold all our X-Wing stock for us, we hate you and games and profit!"...

Er... No wait...

How are you supposed to learn anything in life if you just keep making up new easier rules?

Actually, I learned many games by starting with easier rules, X-Wing being one of them. It's often a good idea to implement things step by step and I think the rulebooks themselves actually reflect this.

Also... The beatings I was referring to happened as a child. And yes, it was actually a dog leash but I swear to god my mother promised me that it was a proper kid harness. Not a dog harness. A kid harness.

.. Oh god my mother tied me up like a hound when I was a kid!

Lol, she probably had a good reason though. I've heard the stories...

How are you supposed to learn anything in life if you just keep making up new easier rules?

Actually, I learned many games by starting with easier rules, X-Wing being one of them. It's often a good idea to implement things step by step and I think the rulebooks themselves actually reflect this.

Quite right! But I'm sure you enjoy the full game much more don't you?

Anyways. People have to play by the rules, that's just how things work. In games, in life, in everything. This isn't a movie. Stop playing theme music.

How are you supposed to learn anything in life if you just keep making up new easier rules?

Actually, I learned many games by starting with easier rules, X-Wing being one of them. It's often a good idea to implement things step by step and I think the rulebooks themselves actually reflect this.

Quite right! But I'm sure you enjoy the full game much more don't you?

Yes, and that is what you'd ideally want to achieve with your 'cheating' opponents. I mean, as opposed to being motivated by the threat of physical violence. Intrinsic motivation and all that. Playing by the rules tends to give bigger sense of achievement; we're very strict with flying off the board now because it becomes annoying if you feel you were given a pass. But in the beginning we played that one somewhat loose.

Its like y'all Casuals just want to read into the Force lightning jokes just way too far dontcha?

We refer to those people as militant casual. They are in many ways exactly the same as the WAAC jerk, only they use 'fly casual' as their method. There was one guy here a few years ago who actually said he'd physically assault someone who didn't let him break the rules that he felt he was justified in breaking.

At any rate its my **** club and if I wanna run it into the ground by expecting my members to play by the rules well then... That's my prerogative.

It is, and you should run it as you see fit. If no one can deal with that they can leave and form their own. There is of course a right way and a wrong way to do that though. The old 'you can catch more flies with honey' method.

I think running tournaments will help. Another option is to track people's scores over say a 3 month period and award prizes based on how people did for that season.

Just be upfront with how the game will be played. That you'll expect people to abide by the rules as written, and you should be ok. I agree that the rules should be followed. But it's hard to justify making someone play a given way if the game they're playing doesn't really mean anything.