Hi,

I was running through the list of top 32 at worlds 2015 https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/192577-2015-worlds-results/

and one thing hit me. Out of 32 players, only number 18 was using a ion bomb. None was using torpedos or missiles or mines. It seems evident that those ammos are less than useful right now, Which means that a big chunk of the game is not being played despite the number of cards being released.

I think that there are many possible solutions to this. The most obvious and in theme that I can think of, is that those ammos don't need Line of Sight once target lock is acquired. They should be able to chase target around the map like they do in movies. Other solutions might be that they dont need an action to be shot. Or maybe some limitations on defence dices being rolled. Afterall, they are "one shot" powerful weapons. Right now they are not. Solutions ?

I think the biggest problem with ordnance is the fact that it is usually a one-shot wonder. It's usually a lot of points to spend on an attack that may not hit. One solution that FFG came up with was the Extra Munitions card to try and make ordnance more cost effective. But as you've pointed out, it's still not making it to the competitive play arena. FFG aren't likely to make changes to specific cards (based on past precedents at least), and won't change something that's likely to make cards effectively redundant. The best solution is probably going to come from a change in the mechanic associated with their use.

FFG aren't likely to make changes to specific cards (based on past precedents at least), and won't change something that's likely to make cards effectively redundant.

To address this, FFG added a rule that allows a player to pass when it is his turn to activate a unit if his opponent has more unactivated units than he does. It was a good change that had a positive effect, making squads that used expensive units more viable than they had been before. However, this new pass rule essentially made a card with a similar effect redundant. The card does permit you to pass when you have the same number of unactivated units as your opponent. While there is a corner case where this card isn't redundant, it is competeing for a slot in a deck of 15 cards that are all single use and drawn at random.

I have no problem with FFG sacrificing a cars to the gods of redundancy to address a balance issue or to make and entire class of cards worthwhile.

FFG aren't likely to make changes to specific cards (based on past precedents at least), and won't change something that's likely to make cards effectively redundant.

Actually, you can look over to Imperial Assault to see a change that made a card redundant. In an Imperial Assault skirmish game, players take turns activating units. Some units have multiple figures. Since you can activate units in any order you wish, there is usually an advantage to activate your most powerful units last. This gave a sizeable advantage to squads with a large number of units because they would be able activate several units after an opponent with a smaller squad had finished activating all of his and was done for the round.

To address this, FFG added a rule that allows a player to pass when it is his turn to activate a unit if his opponent has more unactivated units than he does. It was a good change that had a positive effect, making squads that used expensive units more viable than they had been before. However, this new pass rule essentially made a card with a similar effect redundant. The card does permit you to pass when you have the same number of unactivated units as your opponent. While there is a corner case where this card isn't redundant, it is competeing for a slot in a deck of 15 cards that are all single use and drawn at random.

I have no problem with FFG sacrificing a cars to the gods of redundancy to address a balance issue or to make and entire class of cards worthwhile.

The difference is that some ordinance not being useful is not a fundemental balance flaw within X-wing. Where as the activation advantage in IA was. That game could never move forward with activation advantage, so they had to be willing to make that change. Is this game held back in a fundemental way by some ordinance not being Worlds caliber? I'd say no.

FFG aren't likely to make changes to specific cards (based on past precedents at least), and won't change something that's likely to make cards effectively redundant.

Actually, you can look over to Imperial Assault to see a change that made a card redundant. In an Imperial Assault skirmish game, players take turns activating units. Some units have multiple figures. Since you can activate units in any order you wish, there is usually an advantage to activate your most powerful units last. This gave a sizeable advantage to squads with a large number of units because they would be able activate several units after an opponent with a smaller squad had finished activating all of his and was done for the round.

To address this, FFG added a rule that allows a player to pass when it is his turn to activate a unit if his opponent has more unactivated units than he does. It was a good change that had a positive effect, making squads that used expensive units more viable than they had been before. However, this new pass rule essentially made a card with a similar effect redundant. The card does permit you to pass when you have the same number of unactivated units as your opponent. While there is a corner case where this card isn't redundant, it is competeing for a slot in a deck of 15 cards that are all single use and drawn at random.

I have no problem with FFG sacrificing a cars to the gods of redundancy to address a balance issue or to make and entire class of cards worthwhile.

The difference is that some ordinance not being useful is not a fundemental balance flaw within X-wing. Where as the activation advantage in IA was. That game could never move forward with activation advantage, so they had to be willing to make that change. Is this game held back in a fundemental way by some ordinance not being Worlds caliber? I'd say no.

I'm not saying it's a bad game. I love it. Still, the flaw is there and I think it should be addressed to make it even better.

Extra munitions is nice, but id prefer a lower cost, maybe even 0, and at that,NV it doesnt make the weapons more powerful than most normal attacks. I like the idea that target lock attacks, especially ones that require you to spend it, should be 360. That would help, but really, give me something that actually hits hard. Give me 5 dice attacks for 3 points so EM brings it up to 5 points or 3 dice where all damage is dealt faceup bypassing shields and it might be worth it.,right now, munitions are just not so great regular attacks where I could better be using my points somewhere else.

I can see a Modification upgrade maybe that'd allow 360-degree firing for torpedoes and missiles. It'd be a decision to pick whether the reliability of MF would be wanted, or the ability to fire 360. Nera remains viable since she can take MF in addition to her native ability. With the mod slot, it doesn't limit it to any specific ship, and it doesn't use up a secondary slot like EM does. It would also work with Horton and Kavil, thus increasing their viability.

Or would this be wildly OP?

While I like the concept of 360-degree missile and torps, it would make Nera's ability redundant. That being said, how many players use her often? Would she be missed at all?

Not IMO

While I like the concept of 360-degree missile and torps, it would make Nera's ability redundant. That being said, how many players use her often? Would she be missed at all?

I agree, but she'd still have the MF slot to use based on my suggestion, which gives her at least some benefit. But she's a pilot that's great in theory, but not in practice. I'd rather take Keyan for about the same cost but with a cannon.

I'm just thinking the idea of making Proton Torps viable. Or take my initial suggestion and say it can only 360-degree at range 2 and 3, so that the R1 weapons become more of a dumb fire concept of needing Focus, and the rest need a TL for the outer ranges...

</late night musings>