Hopefully. I figure the Bulwark III won't come out until the Executor class since in Rebellion it was the rebel counterpart to the Executor class. I'll be glad to see the Liberator and Dauntless as well. I'm hoping the Liberator will be Sil 7 and honestly I've always preferred the Dauntless class to the MC80. I always thought the MC80 needing a Mon Cal bridge crew for full efficiency was contrary to the Alliance's ideal that all sentient species are equal. I would also love to see some FFG created capital ship classes for AOR because I love most of the ones they have made for EOE.

I'm curious but how exactly were the MC80 class ships built so that it required a Mon Cal bridge crew? Is there anything specific in nature?

Hopefully. I figure the Bulwark III won't come out until the Executor class since in Rebellion it was the rebel counterpart to the Executor class. I'll be glad to see the Liberator and Dauntless as well. I'm hoping the Liberator will be Sil 7 and honestly I've always preferred the Dauntless class to the MC80. I always thought the MC80 needing a Mon Cal bridge crew for full efficiency was contrary to the Alliance's ideal that all sentient species are equal. I would also love to see some FFG created capital ship classes for AOR because I love most of the ones they have made for EOE.

I'm curious but how exactly were the MC80 class ships built so that it required a Mon Cal bridge crew? Is there anything specific in nature?

Most of the lore talks about how the MC80s (and other, smaller MCs) are mostly designed with Mon Calamari physiology in mind. It's a thing that hasn't been translated over into anything mechanical yet, but the other ships mentioned (Liberator, Dauntless, Bulwark) are all products meant for a wider market. So if you want to adhere to lore a bit more, more non-Mon Cal cap ships would be nice.

That was the main lore behind it. While several other areas of the ship (engineering and weapons are the primary) were redesigned for other races, the bridge controls were built for Mon Cal physiology (more importantly the anatomy and visual spectrums). The biggest reason, at least to me, is the time it would have taken not only to redesign the systems, but to train the crews. Since most of the bridge crews were going to be Mon Cals, the engineers just left it as such. Especially since there were plenty of other ships to refit and crews to be trained for.

After all, most of the Mon Cal cruisers were actually star liners and pleasure ships before Dac joined in the Galactic Civil War.

I guess I never knew how different Mon Cal's were so I was a bit lost on what would be different in regards to controlling a ship.

I guess I never knew how different Mon Cal's were so I was a bit lost on what would be different in regards to controlling a ship.

Biggest difference is size between the various major ship manufacturers (CEC, Sienar, and KDY come to mind) and the Mon Cals. The next is how each is designed and the major design philosophies. The last is the client base, which is further in the diversification.

Those mentioned above are further defined by the culture they are from.

Finally, at least in regards to the Legends EU, the Mon Cal ships weren't given a lot of time for drydock and refit for the war effort. It wasn't until the MC80, such as Mon Remonda (sp?), that were designed with non-Mon Cal in mind. And Mon Remonda was also built from the shipyards, where as Home One was refitted after being built.

Thanks.

I'm pretty sure the Mon Calamari could have built the early MC80s with bridge controls for other races if they wished to since they had been part of the Republic for thousands of years and building ships during that time, including having a license to produce Rendili designs.

For the initial MC80 cruise liners that were converted into combat vessels I'm guessing they set the controls to be specialized for Mon Cal use to aid in seizing control of the ships when the time came to bring them home and convert them to warships. What I don't get is why it took so long to switch to more standard controls for the ships they built after joining the Alliance. It isn't like they hadn't built ships with standard controls before unless every Rendili ship they built came with a Mon Calamari bridge crew.

Because they still have a deserved mistrust for humans?

I'm guessing most of the MC80s the Alliance uses are retrofits. It's possible there are a few that use universal design, but considering the already non-standard design of each one, and the R&D the Mon Cal would have to put into a conversion, and the resource strain the Alliance is under, they probably decided to rely on a proven design rather than risk a new system that could fail at the worst moment. Combine that with the Alliance using other sources for cap ships as well (Dreadnaughts, Assault Frigates, the aforementioned SoroSuub vessels, etc.) and a different tactical approach than the Empire, and it's possible control scheme changes is pretty low on the to do list.

And looking at the way FFG is doing things, it's possible they may introduce the MC90 early (like they did with the E-wing), although seeing as the whole 'built for Mon Cala hands' thing doesn't have a mechanical affect on the game, I doubt it.

The new stealth fighter is there, but really, really hard to spot.

So...working as intended then?

Dreadnaughts and Assault Frigates a Cruiser class vess els under the abbreviated system while MC80s are Battleships. The Sorosuub point does stand though I still think given that the MC80s are the mot well known Rebel Battleships assigning a small group to figure out how to set the control systems on new construction so non-Mon Calamari species (Not just humans) could man the bridge stations easily would get a little more attention then it did since the rebels are probably short on bridge crew as it is and limiting the MC80 bridge crews to Mon Calamari only restricts their personnel pool even further, especially since I believe the same limits in setting applied to the MC40As and MC30Cs as well.

Because they still have a deserved mistrust for humans?

Well, going by Legends at least, most of the initial MC80's were retrofitted from luxury cruisers into vessels of war.

And with the Alliance needing such ships as quickly as possible, it was probably deemed more efficient to leave the bridge controls as-is, especially since the nearly the entire Mon Cal population was backing the Alliance. The newer MC80 cruisers that entered service after Dac joined up were probably designed to be accommodating to bridge crews of other species, but I doubt the shipyards at Dac could crank those out anywheres nearly as quickly as the Empire could crank out Star Destroyers.

Species-specific for large-scale ships really only becomes a serious major problem when the species in question wants nothing to do with your organization.

The original issue of the Rebellion's message of all sentient species being equal clashing with the idea that their main Battleship class they and the new Republic produced for nine years in Legends had its bridge arranged so only the Mon Calamari species could use it at full effectiveness remains even if you discount the population issue.

And I'm not talking about the first wave of MC80s I am asking why the ones they built after joining the Alliance didn't have the bridge controls adjusted while being built. If the Mon Calamari didn't know how to design a control scheme for other species it would be one thing but they clearly did know how to design controls and displays for other species since they were licensed to produce copies of designs from one of the oldest shipwrights in the Republic before the Clone Wars.

I'm guessing it's just a matter of capabilities. I'm guessing MCs are slow to make, seeing as they are all individually made, and not standardized. With a lack of resources, manpower and one reliable shipyard, how fast can they make them? Seeing as they're half-ship, half-artwork, it might mean a massive 180 in mentality for the Mon Cala shipwrights to design it for other species; lot's of resources and time... things the Alliance doesn't have in great abundance.

And do we know what being designed for Mon Calamari physiology actually means? Is it just a matter of swamping out computer terminals, or is it more in depth than that? Is it possible that another species can eventually learn the controls, but it takes weeks or months of training? Part of the inefficiency the books talk about is how no two MC80 are alike, and it takes the crew a while to familiarize themselves with.

I imagine it is something similar to this: Say you go over to your friends house when the new Battlefront game comes out, and you pick up the controller, and start playing and you see a stormtrooper on a ledge above you, and you press up on the right joystick to look up at him and shoot his facist oppressing imperial face off. BUUUUUUT instead of doing that, you immediately look down at your feet and stand there like an idiot while he guns you down because you forgot your dumb friend plays with inverted controls.

Except now imagine that instead of playing a video game you made the same mistake on a multi-million credit, 1.2 kilometer warship, and you have now just sent it careening down into a gravity well from which it can't escape and you are now going to crash into a planet, because up was actually down on the controls and you just didn't realize.

Well the Wookiepedia does mention that some had been modified for non Mon Cals. I don't see why a GM can't or shouldn't just say that one is being used by non Mon Cals if that's what they want. Granted I guess this would be less of an issue if there were more Alliance battleships to play with.

New Alderaan sounds great, I have been basing our smuggling den with the rebels there for some time.

One MC80 every six months was listed in the WEG material but it is never made clear if that is per MC80 construction slip or the Mon Cal Yards as a whole and I suspect the former because that is an incredibly slow rate otherwise and doesn't fit with the Legends numbers for the Rebel fleet. the Essential Guide to Warfare puts the Rebel fleet at being roughly 15 Imperial Sector groups in strength.

Even if you assume Hast and Mon Cal each put out an MC80 every six months and only half the Alliance Battleship strength is from Mon Calamari sources that would take over 40 years to build.

In canon it has never been made clear how large the rebel fleet is but one canon novels refers to an operation launched in the Aftermath of Yavin involving thousands of ships.

So, in regards to the "Mon Calamari only bridge controls," I think we need to look at this, lore wise, as four different primary elements.

1.) Mon Calamari Vision: The displays, both in their output and layout, are going to be optimized for Mon Calamari eyes. There are quite a few differences here from baseline humans. First, Mon Calamari eyes have a much wider range of peripheral vision, and potentially the ability to focus on two independent things at once, and much less depth perception. This reminds me of the scene in Avengers, when Stark criticizes Nick Fury's command displays, because it'd force him to turn his head a lot. Mon Calamari would not have to turn their head a lot. Mon Calamari might also see a slightly different frequency, or have different optimal levels of brightness for their displays vs baseline human vision, though that can apply to almost any species, and being a digital display, you'd imagine it could be tweaked with a simple software update (unless the hardware doesn't go into that range).

2.) Mon Calamari appendages: The Mon Calamari forearm and hand is considerably different than the human appendage. Armrests, and armrest controls that might be easily within reach of a Mon Calamari, might be awkward and very counter-intuitive for a human.

3.) Flooded Spaces: There are some sources that claim many Mon Calamari ships were filled with water to cater to the Mon Calamari. Obviously, in ROTJ the bridge we see with Ackbar doesn't appear to be underwater, so I think this idea has been scrapped for the most part. But consider that filling a ship with water for an aquatic species could have several shipbuilding advantages. You could induce a current in passageways, allowing crew to swim from one end of the ship to another VERY rapidly. You could build the interior of your ship in three dimensions, which COULD explain the strange armature command chair that Ackbar uses in ROTJ on the bridge, because it allows him to move through three dimensions of space to monitor specific crew stations. This would also allow for some very compact, efficient interior workspaces, potentially. It could also assist with damage control. Water does not compress like air does, this could potentially lend a LOT of hull integrity to a ship. There's also the possibility of cryoban grenade-like technology that could freeze water in a space upon a hullbreach, sealing it very quickly. Again, this is a largely cast aside and forgotten element of lore (I'm not sure what source it came from, but it was something obscure that was a low grade of canon).

4.) An Alliance of Rebels: The Rebel Alliance isn't necessarily one complete faction, it's an alliance of several resistance factions. If the Mon Calamari are bringing the ships, it makes sense that, since they built the ships, they retrofitted the ships for combat, and they are already the crews that utilize the ships under Admiral Ackbar, they are going to want to keep said ships. Ackbar's group represents the Mon Calamari resistance, and sure, when the call went out to assemble "the fleet" for ROTJ, Ackbar brought all his ships, but they were maybe still a bit more his than Mon Mothma's than we've been led to believe.

This seems to be the tone Rebels is setting, and in fact Pablo Hidalgo is setting if you watch the Rebel Recon episode covering the B-Wing episode of Rebels. His statement is something along the lines of: "General Dodonna's group over there had X-Wings and Y-Wings, but we see Hera's group here has A-wings predominantly, and now we're adding the B-Wing, I like the idea that different Rebel factions might have access to different resources, including different ships and fighters."

However, I think it makes sense that the Mon Calamari might have also built additional MC class cruisers and battleships for the Rebels, complete with more human-friendly environments and controls. So I think, as a GM, you can hand wave this to keep things moving, or make it as much of an obstacle as you feel like making it. I think it can work either way. You can have a standard ship that just has that Mon Cal flavor to it, or you can make the guys put on scuba suits to board the ship and try to go all in and see what unique elements that adds at the table. Each ship was a kind of unique work of art, so I think there's room for each ship to have some significant differences from others in the same class.

Mechanically, I think it's fine if GMs feel like a Mon Calamari optimized ship adds a setback die to certain species, should they try operating the ship. I'm not sure I'd go much further than that, though.

Just my opinions, obviously none of this post is official in any way. I don't have any secret information of any kind regarding future episodes of Rebels or treatment of the Mon Calamari cruisers in future canon.

I seriously doubt there were any ship sections flooded unless they were on ships with wholly aquatic crews, support craft personnel, and troop compliments. The problems in the event of bulkhead breaches, transit between sections, and the non aquatic crew having to go into aqua suits any that they had to pass through flooded sections or were near flooded sections during battle would be massive.

Well, the description of the Independence in this book does mention that "Mon Calamari cruisers are filled with saltwater by default, but the Independence has had her passageways drained".

Give that most of the Sentient species in the Star Wars galaxy are non-Aquatic pretty much every MC80, with the possible exception of those attached to the Mon Calamari defense fleet would need to be drained unless they plan to force the non-Aquatic crewmembers to wear scuba suits while on duty.

It's a good thing this game has a lot of aquatic species to now choose from!!!!! My personal choice for such a ship if it were flooded ....Nautolan

I seriously doubt there were any ship sections flooded unless they were on ships with wholly aquatic crews, support craft personnel, and troop compliments. The problems in the event of bulkhead breaches, transit between sections, and the non aquatic crew having to go into aqua suits any that they had to pass through flooded sections or were near flooded sections during battle would be massive.

Remember too that, per AoR core, Mon Calamari can breathe water, but it's uncomfortable for them to do so for prolonged periods. This seems at odds with the idea of flooded ships.

I seriously doubt there were any ship sections flooded unless they were on ships with wholly aquatic crews, support craft personnel, and troop compliments. The problems in the event of bulkhead breaches, transit between sections, and the non aquatic crew having to go into aqua suits any that they had to pass through flooded sections or were near flooded sections during battle would be massive.

Remember too that, per AoR core, Mon Calamari can breathe water, but it's uncomfortable for them to do so for prolonged periods. This seems at odds with the idea of flooded ships.

That seems at odds with their depiction from TCW wherein they pretty much lived under water all the time.

Maybe the Mon Cal bridge controls are like those of Mr. Garrison's IT from South Park. Sure, it could be made without the controls that interface with both ends of a Mon Cal's digestive tract, but why would anybody want to do that?

I seriously doubt there were any ship sections flooded unless they were on ships with wholly aquatic crews, support craft personnel, and troop compliments. The problems in the event of bulkhead breaches, transit between sections, and the non aquatic crew having to go into aqua suits any that they had to pass through flooded sections or were near flooded sections during battle would be massive.

Remember too that, per AoR core, Mon Calamari can breathe water, but it's uncomfortable for them to do so for prolonged periods. This seems at odds with the idea of flooded ships.

That seems at odds with their depiction from TCW wherein they pretty much lived under water all the time.

FFG's RPG is based largely on Legends data though sometimes they tweak things to suit their plans. In Legends The Mon Calamari lived on their homeworld's islands while the Quarren lived under water. At least until the Mon Calamari built their floating cities, and conquered the Quarren at some point.