There's no question it's a difficult list to play against. I don't think there is a best counter, only several possible counters. Bombers, Motti with double ISD's, etc. And I don't want to get too deeply into list tailoring...
Would Ozzel (speed 1/3) and ISD's allow you to outfly the opponent by messing with where they expect you to be work? So many possibilities - I can't wait to try them all out!
Has anybody seen the ramming corvettes of doom in action? I've played against a mate who ran 5 Corvettes and seemed he had more trouble trying not to ram himself than thinking about ramming me!! If the Imps go full Tarkin + Eng they can throw back 2 hull per turn so I'd expect they'd be able to just tank it with their larger ships?
I think that a lot of these proposed lists look much more effective on paper. The circling AFs of doom need a lot of foresight to be flown well. If the imperial player can disrupt the formation of the AFs it could be catastrophic for them. I'm thinking a Raider blocking the lead frigate. The AF are VERY predictable when in toilet circle mode and yes while they can kite and abuse speed 2 VSD I think a speed 3 ISD could be a different proposition?
I suppose what I'm saying is that I don't think there is anything out there that is unbeatable that requires no skill whatsoever to execute. To draw a brief parallel with Xwing the Fat Han + Chewy combo was this type of list that any numpty could do well with cause it was flat out broken. I just don't see this in Armada.
Has anybody seen the ramming corvettes of doom in action? I've played against a mate who ran 5 Corvettes and seemed he had more trouble trying not to ram himself than thinking about ramming me!! If the Imps go full Tarkin + Eng they can throw back 2 hull per turn so I'd expect they'd be able to just tank it with their larger ships?
I think that a lot of these proposed lists look much more effective on paper. The circling AFs of doom need a lot of foresight to be flown well. If the imperial player can disrupt the formation of the AFs it could be catastrophic for them. I'm thinking a Raider blocking the lead frigate. The AF are VERY predictable when in toilet circle mode and yes while they can kite and abuse speed 2 VSD I think a speed 3 ISD could be a different proposition?
I suppose what I'm saying is that I don't think there is anything out there that is unbeatable that requires no skill whatsoever to execute. To draw a brief parallel with Xwing the Fat Han + Chewy combo was this type of list that any numpty could do well with cause it was flat out broken. I just don't see this in Armada.
I did yesterday, and everything I've said about it is from the mind of an imperial. Rebels with 4 asf ackbar can probably beat it through red dice, but imperials can't really get away with that.
I'm not gonna go into player skill arguments, as they're fairly futile efforts, but a speed 3 corvette with navigate commands is the most meanuverable ship out currently through speed options and an additional click. It's not hard to get 3-4 corvettes ramming a single medium/large based ship (which kills an asf and leaves 2 damage on a vsd, if shooting didn't get it down farther) and the 5th blocking another. Plus you have the action economy to delay with the mc80 to force and opponent to move into ramming range. Like I said earlier, tarkin could work, but how useful is a tarkin list against ackbar compared to the extra damage of screed or Vader? In the context of a multi round event I don't see an imperial list that can contend with kamikaze corvettes and isd strength broadsides, unless firesprays do prove to be all that. Which I can only theorize about since that's more expensive than the 1st isd...
The ISD is what blew this meta wide open. A lot of people think Ackbar made the Wav2 meta pretty explosive, but then the ISD comes charging in, completely destroying what you know about kiting and playing the range/turn game, and erasing objectives you thought were safe.
The ISD is what blew this meta wide open. A lot of people think Ackbar made the Wav2 meta pretty explosive, but then the ISD comes charging in, completely destroying what you know about kiting and playing the range/turn game, and erasing objectives you thought were safe.
I sure hope so. I'm trying to learn Imperials, and Wave 1 feels like manuvering bricks or running suicide GSD's.
The ISD is what blew this meta wide open. A lot of people think Ackbar made the Wav2 meta pretty explosive, but then the ISD comes charging in, completely destroying what you know about kiting and playing the range/turn game, and erasing objectives you thought were safe.
I sure hope so. I'm trying to learn Imperials, and Wave 1 feels like manuvering bricks or running suicide GSD's.
For what it's worth, I've found my esteem for VSDs has improved the more I think of Navigate as their "default" order. Trying to consistently get by with just one yaw of turning is awful. Navigate literally doubles their turning rate and helps keep their front arcs relevant.
Has anybody seen the ramming corvettes of doom in action? I've played against a mate who ran 5 Corvettes and seemed he had more trouble trying not to ram himself than thinking about ramming me!! If the Imps go full Tarkin + Eng they can throw back 2 hull per turn so I'd expect they'd be able to just tank it with their larger ships?
I played a game against them at 300 points and they trashed my Guppy List in good order, 3 double rams on a guppy isn't much fun. I then asked for a rematch and took 3 ISD's plus Motti, if you have more hull than they do they have a hard time of it as they now have to shoot and scoot. It was a lot closer as they ended up behind me and shooting 3 blue vs 2 red. Riekeen changes the dynamic further, you can afford to double ram aggressively, single ram for an extra point of damage and as the ships die double ram again. While you probably won't get 5 ram damage per Corvette those extra damage will not make the game any less frustrating. Mon Montha is also a good wave 1 option.
As for the ramming coming in slow with token and dial is the main trick, you need some patience. Speed 2/3 (adjust for your opponents speed) can ram at speed 1-4 by use of the token and dial and add the extra yaw into the mix and you should get 3 ships to a side. If you are struggling to get 3 rams then perhaps you jumped in too early? You also want to aim for rams on turn 3, so using a maneuver token on turn 2 will allow you to speed up a few ships and spread out the depth of your attacks.
My regular opponent comes at us with 3 VSDs GSDs all with Engine Techs and they seem to come out of the sun and converge on you like a bunch of sharks and boy can they cover ground very fast.
"...3 VSDs all with Engine Techs..."
I didn't think VSD could get ETs.
GSD (oops)
Mind you game 2 was my Nebs and Corvettes vs 3 VSD's with engine techs. (Pre-Wave 1) I somehow don't think my opponent was alone in making that mistake. 
GSD (oops)
Okay whew. The possibility that I'd been forgetting the VSD/ETS option gave me a server reality embolism
I think your description of GSD doing it is really appropriate, though. Any player worth his salt has received a savage beating at the guns of a gang of fast moving GSD - a lesson they never forgot.
Reminds me of an unconfirmed theory I have: Anybody that wants to talk about fighting that doesn't have a "the time I got my butt handed to me" story is either a liar or about to get knocked out.
Reminds me of an unconfirmed theory I have: Anybody that wants to talk about fighting that doesn't have a "the time I got my butt handed to me" story is either a liar or about to get knocked out.
I am not that violent its been well over 30 years since I have been in a fight. But I do fence and many years ago did a massively bad attack and wound up with my sword in my back pocket. My opponent merely had to touch me as it was not coming out as easily as it went in. Does that count as a Butt Handed to me Story?
Yep! Your authenticity has been confirmed both in game fights (mentioning getting crushed by gsd) and sword fights. According to the DrunkTarkin Theory of Getting Crushed you are beyond reproach.
Please listen to almost any of our episodes for my own Getting Crushed cred or ask anyone from my old unit regarding RL Getting Crushed stories.
The interesting thing is you learn more for losing.
I have listened to all the episodes. It's like my house after game night.
The interesting thing is you learn more for losing.
I have listened to all the episodes. It's like my house after game night.
This is my experience, too (in life and in Armada, but we'll stick to Armada). Lost round 3 of our Sullust tournament at the second-to-top table playing Precision Strike (for the first time... that was a problem, too 
). Learned a lot about the objective, as well as deployment, aggression against carrier lists, etc. So a good learning opportunity, if not at the most opportune time. 
The interesting thing is you learn more for losing.
I have listened to all the episodes. It's like my house after game night.
Definitely!!
The other thing that makes you a better player is getting out and playing people from other cities/countries who show up with a totally different game plan that nobody in your hometown ever thought of. Also follow your gut. Some of my best wargaming successes have been on the back of godawful hangovers where I have been so shattered I've just been running on pure instinct.
Also is it just me or are there a lot of Flames of War refugees lurking around this game?
I hate traveling 2+ hrs for tournaments. But I love getting romped at them. I learn pretty **** quick what I'm doing right/wrong and I get new ideas.
I just wish my local community was more than me. Hopefully wave 2 changes that. If not... Well, I'll see how long playing with myself keeps me interested in the game.
I got my ass handed to me at the archery range a couple of months ago by a ~70 year old peasant woman in a mao suit with no teeth. Usually I am pretty open to surprises, but that one I did not expect.... especially as I compete against the compound bow / laser sight crowd with the stock bows at the range.
She used to live in the east of China, but was forcibly relocated to the countryside to teach children to speak Mandarin in the mountains as a teenager. She had to hunt birds with a bow and arrows to eat, but apparently that's okay because her grandkids had just clubbed together to buy her an apartment right next to Starbucks.
I got my ass handed to me at the archery range a couple of months ago by a ~70 year old peasant woman in a mao suit with no teeth. Usually I am pretty open to surprises, but that one I did not expect.... especially as I compete against the compound bow / laser sight crowd with the stock bows at the range.
She used to live in the east of China, but was forcibly relocated to the countryside to teach children to speak Mandarin in the mountains as a teenager. She had to hunt birds with a bow and arrows to eat, but apparently that's okay because her grandkids had just clubbed together to buy her an apartment right next to Starbucks.
As someone who enjoys an archery hobby (I go old school recurve, myself) and a Masters in History, focusing in modern China, this story absolutely made my morning. Thanks!
I got my ass handed to me at the archery range a couple of months ago by a ~70 year old peasant woman in a mao suit with no teeth. Usually I am pretty open to surprises, but that one I did not expect.... especially as I compete against the compound bow / laser sight crowd with the stock bows at the range.
She used to live in the east of China, but was forcibly relocated to the countryside to teach children to speak Mandarin in the mountains as a teenager. She had to hunt birds with a bow and arrows to eat, but apparently that's okay because her grandkids had just clubbed together to buy her an apartment right next to Starbucks.
I think "Rule One", "Do not act incautiously when confronting little bald wrinkly smiling men", would apply here.
Except, she wasn't bald, I'm guessing.
And, she's not a dude.
On the topic of stopping the Swirl, after some testing, I have found there are three good options and it is correct that any competitive list will have to include one of these in force:
I think the trick to making these work comes in two varieties (ignoring counter-swirl, which is purely about who executes it better and who luck favors).
Option one:
Get in close, quickly, and break up the swirl. The mistake to make is going down the middle. They want that, they will cross over you. F that noise. Blitz down one side after setting up in the middle and seeing which way they are circling, or if they telegraph it in advance. Go face first into the formation. The goal is not your survival; it is their destruction.
To that end, you also need a list that can make a real good mess once you get there. The MC-30 might be the single best anti-whale ship in the new meta, thanks to the combination of speed, shields (so it can get in close), and absolutely brutal firepower when it arrives. I would imagine a Reikaan combo CR-90 / MC-30 list could light up the Whales by just overwhelming them IF piloted properly. Raider swarm is another great answer here. Bleed some on the way in, but make sure when you arrive the violence is tangible.
Two:
In a carrier / bomber battle, you probably want to keep at medium-ish range and interdict where they are ultimately headed. Again, get ships in front of the swirl, but in this case, you want to create a zone of death with your bombers where any whales arriving will be unceremoniously harpooned and slaughtered. The idea being that you use their desire to remain in motion against them by either forcing them to break formation or having them arrive directly into your trap (there is a reason Ackbar was so worried about this). Rhymber-ball gives you the largest footprint for this, and I would point out having the initial ball be squadron-activated but having rogue Firesprays arrive later means they get to mooch off Rhymer's ability. The crushing defeat the Whale list suffered in my last game was a result of a Rhymer + Advanced ball that was being bossed around with a follow up from a swarm of Firesprays. Deleted a whale in a single turn.
Edited by Reinholt"The goal is not your survival; it is their destruction."
Your total lack of compassion for the welfare of the men under you, is commendable. Keep up the good work Commander.
Edited by GronardII
By driving a SD through it's heart.
Any way we could get this read by Samuel Jackson with some colorful language thrown in?
Now all I have in my head is:
"I am sick of these mother f***ing Assault Frigates in this mother f***ing game!"
I read it in the voice. . .