The dwindling number of new posts recently reflects directly on the fact that, without yet having put the new toys on the table in any substantial number, we've got nothing left to say. Everyone caring to has already announced what they're excited about when they foamy get their hands on Wave 2, but I say we're all missing the real hot topic involving the upcoming releases.

Most of the IFF guys ended Wave 1 experimentation settling on some version of bringing several assault frigates as the core of our tournament lists. We've now also seen World's taken by a couple assault frigates plus the fixings. The love affair with the assault frigate is for real.

The hallmark move of any assault frigate list is "the turn". You might not have noticed the moment when it happened, but at one decisive point in the last game you lost against assault frigates, they turned, helping both avoid your close range power and address your ships with potent broadside dice. The worst part of "the turn" is that almost always it leaves the opponent in a position where some of his or her fleet is isolated and incapable of contributing to the fight. Getting turned on is the inevitable outcome of any game versus well-run assault frigates, and now that list can add an Ackbar to it.

Therefore I'm interested to hear how everyone plans on addressing this. It's my opinion that, much like the gencon special factor, you can't go into a game without having a plan to deal with toilet circling assault frigates. That's what really needs to be considered while we all wait for Wave 2. If not, then I guess I'll see you all at the next event with Ackbar leading some assault frigates with some fixings thrown in for frosting.

Those interested or unfamiliar with "the turn" can see a perfect example in the Round 5 top table game video assuming it's still up somewhere.

By driving a SD through it's heart.

The Imperial at worlds lost the game during set up.

More IFF podcast is what I care about.

I agree. I've been giving this a lot of thought from a list-building perspective, but that's a huge subject in itself, before even adding the tactical layer onto it.

As far as initial impressions go for table-top play, I think if you're looking to survive Ackbar AFIIs, a mirror match of dueling toilet circling is probably the most straightforward solution. If the goal is to score MOV higher than 6 in a tournament, that probably won't cut it, at least not consistently.

The key difficulty for Imperials is closing on Ackbar frigates when they can move away from you. Going up the middle, while the fastest and most direct route, is extremely dangerous if there are gunnery teams. I feel like the answer is some combination of blocking Raiders with Expanded Launches approaching from the front of the battle line, an Engine Tech Demolisher approaching from the rear of the battle line, and maybe a bomber cloud running up the middle from a boosted comms Vic or ISD, with tractor beams to slow down the AFIIs (though that requires having a medium-to-large ship in range of an Ackbar salvo, so the execution will be tricky). The problem is that this requires splitting your forces up into at least three (and as many as five) groups, which (a) requires that many units to group that way to begin with, and (b) opens you up to the possibility that a smaller group will be attacked by a much larger one.

Definitely interested in seeing what others have to propose, though.

More IFF podcast is what I care about.

Ha. Nice.

Tentative plan is to record tonight.

By driving a SD through it's heart.

Any way we could get this read by Samuel Jackson with some colorful language thrown in?

I appreciate the bravado but I think toileting Ackbar would love nothing more than to see an SD barreling draught into the middle of it.

My buddy and I played a wave 2 game yesterday with the ISD and the MC-80. This is the second game we played, the first we played it I had an MC-80 and 2 AFIIs loaded up and with Ackbar. He had an ISD, a Victory and a Demolisher (no squadrons on either side). He ran his ISD and Demo right at my formation and split up my MC-80 from my AFIIs and brought his Victory into the side arc of my MC-80. He did manage keep my central AFII from orbiting him but not my second one and in doing so he gave both his ISD, Demolisher and his Victory the side arcs of my MC-80. I was able to take out both his Vic and Demo in one turn and then both my AFIIs blasted around his ISD and made short work of him. He grumbled for a week about the power of Ackbar so I told we would switch factions next time.

So in this game he brought the MC-80 and 2 AFIIs and 4 A-Wings and I brought a decked out ISDII and a Demolisher and 4 Firesprays (proxy), Boba Fett (proxy), Rhymer and an Advanced. In this game he lined his ships up in typical conga line style with his MC-80 trailing. So my plan in dealing with this was set both my Demo and ISD at speed 3 and rush his front AFIIs and put as much damage on them as I could knowing he would blow past me and then have my Fett/Rhymer ball fall in behind me to finish them off. It actually worked, but only barely. I barreled towards him at speed 3 and threw my demo at his AFIIs and put some serious damage on them as my ISD was close behind. I then sent my Ryhmer ball to deal with is AWings (which they did easily) and then pulled them in behind my ISD. My Demo died horribly (as expected) and the two AFIIs flew past me (as expected) right into my Firesprays assisted by Rhymer. The Rhymer ball took out the second AFII but my ISD was right in front of the side arc of his MC-30 (with 9 damage on him with Motti) but with Relentless on my ISD (2 Command dials) I was able to have a navigate on my dial and I sped up to speed 3 and slid in behind his MC-80 denying him my side arc. He took a pot shot and then moved away at speed 2 and right into my squadrons who then took out the MC-80.

So it was chancy of me to only have two ships but omg those Firesprays with Rhymer were devastating.

Yeah, I'm really excited for what the Imperials get out of the Rogues and Villains packs. Slightly disappointed that I had to order five packs to do weekday I want, but I'm with you in thinking the rogue bombers can pay a key role in messing with the toilet.

Yeah, I'm really excited for what the Imperials get out of the Rogues and Villains packs. Slightly disappointed that I had to order five packs to do weekday I want, but I'm with you in thinking the rogue bombers can pay a key role in messing with the toilet.

They definitely came out ahead of the Rebels, especially with Rogue. I agree that it is annoying how they are packaging the Rogues and Villains but I know a few people who are faction pure who plan to trade with each other so they dont have to buy as many squadron packs.

Try to play 2 ISD like 2 AFII's?

One after the other and try to cross in front of the conga line with the first ISD, hitting the lead AFII.

Use a back up Glad or Raider to follow up behind your own conga line to block anyone trying to escape through.

The ISD's are just as fast and as nimble...

Try to play 2 ISD like 2 AFII's?

One after the other and try to cross in front of the conga line with the first ISD, hitting the lead AFII.

Use a back up Glad or Raider to follow up behind your own conga line to block anyone trying to escape through.

The ISD's are just as fast and as nimble...

I am thinking of something like this too but I think the key is to slightly stagger the ISDs to make it impossible to move around them a speed 3.

In my experience, when dealing with the conga line, its best to stop the middle or lost ship with a block. I played a neb list for a good month, and what I found was it could win against just about any list, through precise application of damage. Essentially your looking to kill a ship, maybe two if you're confident/ get lucky salvation rolls, and run away. The circles of doom only really work I'd you continue to chase or readjust to their path. If you turn away and bugger off for the last couple turns ackbar doesn't do anything.

With that in mind, on the imperial side they gained a ton of speed and list versatility through the raider and isd. With a large base it'll be hard to get out of side arcs, but its alot easier to get front arc shots on asf and mc80s going circle mode, especially at speed 1/2 with a navigate. Vader I got to try last night with a pair of Vic 2's, and I was throwing minimum 5 damage 1 accuracy. Plus dominator and concentrate firepower on those and there just weren't dud rolls at all. The isd with avenger and a raider with overload pulse can and should kill an asf if you have screed. Lastly I've found its better to be second as imperials vs rebels, for the better objectives. Contested outpost or fleet ambush enable you to dictate deployment, superior positions lets you know exactly where and what speed to set up at, which can win you the game right there, and really your red objective is the weakest one, since it doesn't dictate your deployment. Most wanted isn't beneficial against ackbar since you really don't want 8-10 red dice thrown at you, advanced gunnery benefits him more than you, precision strike doesn't get you anything super awesome, though with rhymer and firesprays its still good. And opening salvo can be decent, although still dangerous for the alpha strike.

By driving a SD through it's heart.

Any way we could get this read by Samuel Jackson with some colorful language thrown in?

Now all I have in my head is:

"I am sick of these mother f***ing Assault Frigates in this mother f***ing game!"

I think the reason "legacy" imperial players are having trouble with the ackbar conga line is they are too accustomed to the conventional wisdom and tactics of ship only lists.

Frankly a bunch of squadrons will be a must going forward and committing your ships is something you do at the end. Chasing an ackbar list is about the stupidest thing you can do, but using a couple of victories or a decked out ISD as carriers supported by raiders and max squadron points with all the insane synergies available to the imperial squadrons makes for a better strategy going forward.

A few tie advanced with Soontir (auto damage to any squadron that dares engage), a few tie bombers with Rhymer and a few ties and howlrunner and/or Mauler and/or villains (I found Bossk to be quite effective dual-role). With boosted comms and other optional squadron upgrading cards any list that skimps on squads to stack AF with Ackbar will suffer. the speed and versatility of the squads combined with a long + medium effective range (long range activation for medium range firing at ships) will allow you to focus on completing objectives and tactical area denial. Rebels will have to start reducing AF investment to either bring squads or other anti-squad specialized elements redressing the balance.

in any case, what would be really cool is if we actually got wave 2 so everyone could finally find out...

I think squads are going to become much more popular when dealing with "Red Die Rebels" I mean yeah Red are sometimes unreliable but when you're throwing upwards of 20 a turn with ackbar and a few ships. It starts to hurt. But I can see a weakness in the Ackbar Conga Line being squads. I mean throw Boba and Bossk with some bombers and bam you can whittle down a MC30 in no time. Boba gets an auto damage every turn. Granted I have always loved squads but I feel they will become more and more prevalent in wave 2 especially with some of the new fleets we will probably be seeing

Played plenty of Wave II already. The conga line with an ISD-II and a gunnery team rushing right at the front of the column really does give them pause. Generally I aim my move right at the lead ship starting at speed 3. My aim has been to ram into it, with a big base that is very easy. Using it both as a break and disrupting their entire move in a sort of traffic accident. Once out of position usually one or more of the AFs has to wander into my Victory-II who as been on slow approach from the middle of the table.

I think the Navigate command is vastly underutilized. Get the rebel player to commit to the turn, then deke him out, focus on the last ship in the conga and blow it up. Tail chase ensues.

Bombers will be a big part of counter-Ackbar lists, though with boosted comms I think TIE bombers are a much much better value than Firesprays.

I agree that objective play is the other key...make them come to you. Advanced gunnery, contested outpost, and minefields should appear in many, many imperial lists.

I absolutely love all this bomber talk. If I haven't made that flip-flop yet clear enough, I will be firmly planting myself on the pro-squadron side in the next show thanks in no small part to the Firespray.

I've been really hesitant with the Advanced Gunnery objective in my own Wave 2 games (proxying R&V and using the MC80 from Sullust, etc) because of the potential benefit you grant an MC80 or an ISD without Gunnery Teams, but I think the benefit of being able to double tap a target with an ISD or MC80 is going to quickly outweigh the drawback. I can't imagine first players being overly excited about giving any second player with a large ship the capability to double tap.

Bombers are certainly the way to go. TIE Bombers can chase them down if properly supported, but any bomber will do.

I've been a proponent of the Circlecide after playing chicken since I switched to Rebels from Imperials... I don't usually completely mirror match, because I only have the one frigate, but I make up for it by carefully planning where my Bombers need to be... An Assault Frigate has to choose - does it brave a minefield of blue+black, does it take an avenue of advance that gives a Nebulon B its front arc to it, or does it take itself out of the fight completely?

What do people think about a glad with Insidious/ET chasing down a conga line?

What do people think about a glad with Insidious/ET chasing down a conga line?

Too Reactive. You're only fast enough to keep up, rather than actually close the distance... It has its chances, but no more than much anything else.

Demolisher works better as a Pursuit craft, as it is able to break that Shoot-Then-Move rule.

By driving a SD through it's heart.

Any way we could get this read by Samuel Jackson with some colorful language thrown in?

I appreciate the bravado but I think toileting Ackbar would love nothing more than to see an SD barreling draught into the middle of it.

I didn't say my entry point was going to be his chest.

The Imperial at worlds lost the game during set up.

If only YOU had been there! YOU would be World Champion!

park demolisher or a raider in the front of the line.