So to sum it up TIE-bombers still suck, there are no good missile secondary weapons, and again the Maj Rhymer AHM is just asking for a Soontir to flank its sides and blast him to oblivion without a single AHM being fired.

So much nope. Standart Homing Missiles are kind of reasonable with EM, a perfect fit for TIE Bombers, especially if you also replicate something else, say Seismic Charges, bringing you to a nice 25 point build (thanks again to the wonderfull person that found it ).

I just want to agree with this. I've been running 4 x Scimitar with EM, Homing Missiles, and Seismic. It's a very effective combo and I'm really enjoying it. I still need to play it more against specific lists, but I think it's a competitive build.

Also, thanks, as I'll take credit for that list! OK, maybe not the first person or only person to think of it, but I was playing Jonus Brothers hard (thank you Darkhorse) when they announced EM and I immediately thought of it. I know I posted a lot on the forums about it. I got lots of flack from Ficklegreendice about action economy with missiles, but he just recently re-saw the list and has been loving running it.

While there are specific places where Advanced Homing Missile is better (Blount and a few others), I don't think it's better than Homing Missile. Just last night I was playing a friend whom was using AHM while I had HM (bomber off). After I was shooting at him, he had to look at the card again and fell in love. No more AHM for him. "4 dice? You keep the TL?"

Why would Talonbane be good for AHM? You don't add any range bonus for secondary weapons, so you don't get more dice with AHM.

Maarek with ATC won't add dice as it only adds for main weapon. It is good as he gets to pick the best of 3 crits, though. If he's got Engine Upgrade, he can probably boost to get in range. That would mean no Munitions Failsafe, though.

EDIT: Oh! Munitions Failsafe is probably best to use on Rhymer. Why not?

They are totally different toys. The AHM is meant to lay a critical into a heavily shielded opponent. The Plasma is meant to strip the shields in the hopes that someone else can lay in a critical. Fortunately they go in different slots. Imperials have a hard time getting torpedoes, so having the AHM available is good. Rebels and Scum will probably pass on it.

Personally I've used it on Rhymer and a Punisher and it's done me proud. On both it was a back up to the Plasma. But it's been a damned good 3 points.

Lt Blount would disagree that there is no good use for Adv Homing Missile.

I'd rather run an A-wing for the points. Green w/ PTL or Proto w/ Procket.

Seriously, its 20 points for 1 shot deal that you have to get into range 2 and you have to have a TL. There is also no guarantee that the crit you land is actually going to do much. You could end up just giving them a Thrust Control Fire. With the new deck crits aren't as nasty as they used to be. Sure they all do something , but you don't have the absolute crushing crits anymore. I'd actually rather run IPMs and have the control factor. After you fire them, you just have an expensive Z-95.

Lt Blount would disagree that there is no good use for Adv Homing Missile.

With the new deck crits aren't as nasty as they used to be.

Errr.....what? The last deck was either REALLY bad for Aces or REALLY nothing at all. I think all the crits in the new deck are ones you don't want. I think some of them are much worse than anything in the old deck.

Lt Blount would disagree that there is no good use for Adv Homing Missile.

. Sure they all do something , but you don't have the absolute crushing crits anymore.

Sure you do. Direct Hit against a fully loaded Whisper or Corran horn is crippling enough!

Both the AHM and the HM have their place.

I'm waiting for XX-23 to be out, and in my next Team Epic match to then take list with Blount w/XX-23, a swarm of Bandits - some with HM, some with IPM, and Rieekan on the Transport. Booms and Kablams a plenty.

Miranda with HM, flying along with Jan in her HWK, also make for a really fun 6-dice attack with the missile.

I've got a theory (as yet untested) that the Advanced Homing Missile might be a good upgrade for Talonbane Cobra. He gains significant benefits from being at range 1 or range 3 from an enemy, so there's a lot of effort from opponents going into getting into range 2. Why not punish anyone who does with a crit that hits through shields?

Sounds quite nice on paper. Problem as usually w ordnance, the action economy. You still need to have a target lock on just that ship when it is just in range 2.

Well, you're more likely to benefit from a critical hit on a big hull than on a smaller ships.

For sure, but I'd rather take the extra shield damage , the extra red dice, and increased range over a crit effect.

I've got a theory (as yet untested) that the Advanced Homing Missile might be a good upgrade for Talonbane Cobra. He gains significant benefits from being at range 1 or range 3 from an enemy, so there's a lot of effort from opponents going into getting into range 2. Why not punish anyone who does with a crit that hits through shields?

Sounds quite nice on paper. Problem as usually w ordnance, the action economy. You still need to have a target lock on just that ship when it is just in range 2.

That's why I think Tie Advanced with ATC is a good option. You save it until you are at optimal positioning. Not that hard if you can use your Barrel Roll or Boost (with Eng Upgrade) to reposition...since you already have the TL.

Vader with this would be brutal. He can get a Focus, too, and make it even more effective. Maybe he's got Predator, too? Or Outmaneuver? Or Crackshot?

I've got a theory (as yet untested) that the Advanced Homing Missile might be a good upgrade for Talonbane Cobra. He gains significant benefits from being at range 1 or range 3 from an enemy, so there's a lot of effort from opponents going into getting into range 2. Why not punish anyone who does with a crit that hits through shields?

Sounds quite nice on paper. Problem as usually w ordnance, the action economy. You still need to have a target lock on just that ship when it is just in range 2.

That's why I think Tie Advanced with ATC is a good option. You save it until you are at optimal positioning. Not that hard if you can use your Barrel Roll or Boost (with Eng Upgrade) to reposition...since you already have the TL.

Vader with this would be brutal. He can get a Focus, too, and make it even more effective. Maybe he's got Predator, too? Or Outmaneuver? Or Crackshot?

I run my vader with Prockets and Crackshot. yummy hull is yummy

I like Adv Homing missile on Strom in Escalation. I also have a bunch of advances with Proton Rockets so you know that's evil.

...but.....Advanced Homing Missiles can be better vs some ships with the right load out. Not saying Prockets are bad....but maybe you want AHM during some matches?

I am trying here....

...but.....Advanced Homing Missiles can be better vs some ships with the right load out. Not saying Prockets are bad....but maybe you want AHM during some matches?

I am trying here....

I have Prockets List and a AHM list.

Vader with

Crackshot

PRockets

title

ATC

MK2 engines

Whisper Vi FCS RC ACD

Tempest Squad with AC

and AHM which is

Maarek Stele

PTL

AHM

title

ATC

MK2

Lt Colzet

Title

AC

Echo

VI

FCS

ACD

RC

Basically what i'm saying is, if i'm using AHM i make sure to get the most bang for my buck. Nothign is more fun than having Colzet be targetted because I keep flipping a Blinded Pilot every turn.

...but.....Advanced Homing Missiles can be better vs some ships with the right load out. Not saying Prockets are bad....but maybe you want AHM during some matches?

I am trying here....

Which is a huge part of this game. Everything is situational.

So to sum things up...

You tried AHMs on one pilot, tried to hit a phantom, and failed to get a direct hit card. Your conclusion was that both AHM and Major Rhymer are useless. Furthermore, you conclude that all bombers and missiles useless.

This seems like a logical conclusion, and is definitely not an overreaction.

Failed to hit twice, and when the Phantom was decloaked too. But yes if an upgrade has a discard mechanic, in order for it to be viable in competitive play it must be guaranteed to do 1 of 2 things.

1. Remove an opponent ship.
2. Keep a friendly ship from being removed.

Missiles and torpedoes have no guarantee where as something like Crack Shot or Chewbacca you know those will have one of the two effects as you discard them.

As for Lt. Blount he can get vaporized by Outrider HLC. Good luck getting off a range 2. What makes tactician so good is that it works at every attack. Against Corron Horn, well he is agility 3 and with barrel roll can arc dodge just as well. Marrek Steel has the same problems as Rhymer and Blount put together. First he has to get a target lock on range 2 and second he needs to hit. All scenarios with AHM on whatever pilot just doesn't work reliably enough.

I still maintain this card is amazing in epic.

So to sum things up...

You tried AHMs on one pilot, tried to hit a phantom, and failed to get a direct hit card. Your conclusion was that both AHM and Major Rhymer are useless. Furthermore, you conclude that all bombers and missiles useless.

This seems like a logical conclusion, and is definitely not an overreaction.

Failed to hit twice, and when the Phantom was decloaked too. But yes if an upgrade has a discard mechanic, in order for it to be viable in competitive play it must be guaranteed to do 1 of 2 things.

1. Remove an opponent ship.
2. Keep a friendly ship from being removed.

Missiles and torpedoes have no guarantee where as something like Crack Shot or Chewbacca you know those will have one of the two effects as you discard them.

As for Lt. Blount he can get vaporized by Outrider HLC. Good luck getting off a range 2. What makes tactician so good is that it works at every attack. Against Corron Horn, well he is agility 3 and with barrel roll can arc dodge just as well. Marrek Steel has the same problems as Rhymer and Blount put together. First he has to get a target lock on range 2 and second he needs to hit. All scenarios with AHM on whatever pilot just doesn't work reliably enough.

I'm wondering if you would have had better luck if you'd had something like Crack Shot instead of VI on Rhymer. You lose the PS bid, but being able to cancel an evade die will force your opponent to make some scary choices with his token usage.

Alternately, you could have found yourself at my table, where my team of Horton, Poe and a Blackmoon Squadron pilot found ourselves faced off against twin TLT Hortons (one BTL Stressbot, one TLT and Seismics) and Luke with R2D2.

As far as Blount, I think you're overstating his ability to get quickly vaporized. You'd need a perfect HLC shot matched by failed evade dice. And against Corran Horn, Blount is an auto-hit unless Horn spends an action on arc-dodging.

So to sum it up TIE-bombers still suck, there are no good missile secondary weapons, and again the Maj Rhymer AHM is just asking for a Soontir to flank its sides and blast him to oblivion without a single AHM being fired.

So much nope. Standart Homing Missiles are kind of reasonable with EM, a perfect fit for TIE Bombers, especially if you also replicate something else, say Seismic Charges, bringing you to a nice 25 point build (thanks again to the wonderfull person that found it ). Once the Tracer thing releases they will actually be scary. Ion Pulse Missiles were really good in the two ship meta and will still be nice when fighting aces (take a look at this Boba: http://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Scum%20and%20Villainy&d=v3!s!116:27,-1,41,61,53,-1:1:-1:U.126;109:140,36,-1,23,-1,-1:-1:15: ). Procket Jake also disagrees with you, as does Cluster Missile/Glitterstim N'dru. And last but certainly not least, Assault Missiles have a place in epic, where they really screw up your opponents formations (which are important, since it makes flying a lot of ships a lot less taxing). Epic does matter!

And on the topic of AHMs: They do have a place, Blount just loves them. Takes a bit of manouvering to get into that zone, but it really does hurt.

Oh and TIE Bombers are fantastic as cheap mine platforms. EM kind of makes me want to own 5 instead of just my lovely 4. Their stats also say that they never really sucked, they are only outperformed slightly by the TIE Fighter and a bit less comfortable to fly. Good ship to make a tanky swarm of hitpoints.

TBCobra gets eaten for breakfast by TLT.

And Dash. And Brobots. And bascialyl anything with GOOD sec weps: Turrets and cannons.

So to sum it up TIE-bombers still suck, there are no good missile secondary weapons, and again the Maj Rhymer AHM is just asking for a Soontir to flank its sides and blast him to oblivion without a single AHM being fired.

So much nope. Standart Homing Missiles are kind of reasonable with EM, a perfect fit for TIE Bombers, especially if you also replicate something else, say Seismic Charges, bringing you to a nice 25 point build (thanks again to the wonderfull person that found it ). Once the Tracer thing releases they will actually be scary. Ion Pulse Missiles were really good in the two ship meta and will still be nice when fighting aces (take a look at this Boba: http://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Scum%20and%20Villainy&d=v3!s!116:27,-1,41,61,53,-1:1:-1:U.126;109:140,36,-1,23,-1,-1:-1:15: ). Procket Jake also disagrees with you, as does Cluster Missile/Glitterstim N'dru. And last but certainly not least, Assault Missiles have a place in epic, where they really screw up your opponents formations (which are important, since it makes flying a lot of ships a lot less taxing). Epic does matter!

And on the topic of AHMs: They do have a place, Blount just loves them. Takes a bit of manouvering to get into that zone, but it really does hurt.

Oh and TIE Bombers are fantastic as cheap mine platforms. EM kind of makes me want to own 5 instead of just my lovely 4. Their stats also say that they never really sucked, they are only outperformed slightly by the TIE Fighter and a bit less comfortable to fly. Good ship to make a tanky swarm of hitpoints.

TBCobra gets eaten for breakfast by TLT.

And Dash. And Brobots. And bascialyl anything with GOOD sec weps: Turrets and cannons.

Exactly, and AHM is not a good secondary weapon. It isn't as bad as say APT or Homing Missiles, but it is not good.

I play Emon with Proton Bombs, AHM, and EM. There's nothing so glorious as giving a nasty TLT Y-wing two crits in the same turn and then just ignoring his crippled ass for the rest of the game!