Hi,

I was just reading through the navigation rules and I read something strange.

When a Navigator wants to leave the warp he has to make Hard (-20) perception test, this seems to be a bit harsh.

The maximum Perception a Navigator is likely to have is 25+20=3= 48 (max on character creation)
The Navigator may spend XP to raise that score to 68 (48 + (5 x4) = 68)

So the best chance a Navigator ever has to leave the Warp safely is 48%, so less than half the time their will be a mishap.

How could the Imperium ever safely explore the stars, how can trade routes possibly function, I agree, it should be dangerous but this is a bit stupid.
Okay the degree of danger isdetermined by the degree of failure but still.

My suggestion to solve this problem:

Change the Perception Test into a Awareness Test, this way it is possible to gather an additional +30 (Awareness +20, Talented (Awareness)) for a total of 78%.

Any other ideas?

GrtZ,

Santiago...

Okay to late to edit:

Found another minor fault in the Navigation Section:

Stage I:
Determine duration of passage (no test)

Stage II:
Locate the Astronomicon
Ordinary (+10) Awareness Test

Stage III:
Charting the Course
This is another Ordinary Perception Test
(Where was the first one???)

Stage IV:
Steering the Vessel
Make a Navigation (Warp) test modified by Stage II and possible Navis Prima

Stage V:
Leaving the Warp
Make a Hard (-20) Perception Test

I think both perception tests should be Awareness Tests...

Santiago said:

That should be the core of it, IMO. A small failure may put you near to your intended destination, but maybe a little further out than expected, or in a somewhat turbulent or hazardous area, or otherwise in an inconvenient place. Only with 3+ degrees of failure (at the very least) would I make the failure really serious.

Even then, it's GM's perogative to alter test difficulty according to circumstance - the rules for Navigating the Warp seem very much (and for good reason) focussed on the matter of navigating largely uncharted routes in wilderness space. Moving around stable and well-travelled sectors of space using accurate and frequently-updated information would be inherently easier in all cases (a frequently-travelled system would likely have a known point where entering and leaving the Warp is easiest and safest, which in and of itself would grant a Navigator a bonus to the test, which normally seems to represent the Navigator looking for what he thinks should be a good spot to exit).

At stage III they mention "another perception test", this is the second test and the first one was a Awareness test.
That makes me think they all should be Awareness tests...

Santiago said:

A thought has occurred, on a bit of a tangent from this... when you're in the Warp (specifically, when you're the Navigator on a starship in the Warp, staring into the depths of the Immaterium), is there any real difference between an Awareness test and a Psyniscience test?

Inside the Geller Field yes, you'd probably be overwhelmed when it shuts down in the Warp, just before you are ripped apart by Warp critters.

Santiago said:

My point is more a matter of seeing the Warp - the Psyniscience skill seems, essentially by definition, a far better choice of test for observing the flows, eddies and tides of the Warp than more mundane Awareness. As a skill that all Navigators start with and can advance to +20 by rank 3, it strikes me as being the more appropriate choice for Locating the Astronomicon (you're attempting to find the location and distance of a purely psychic phenomenon visible only within the Warp), Charting the Course (you're looking for changes and dangerous conditions in the Warp ahead), and Leaving the Warp (you're trying to find the best point for translation back into realspace) than Awareness or Perception, as Psyniscience allows characters to "sense the currents and eddies of the Warp" and permits "detection of psychic phenomena, disturbances, voids or other areas where the flow of the immaterium has been unsettled or disrupted"...

It seems to me that such a skill is exactly what you'd want when looking into the Warp.

You are right....no question...

So all perception and awareness tests should be Psyniscience Tests...makes sense when you try to locate a Psychic Beacon...

Except that a Geller Field encapsulates the ship with a "pocket" of reality. So essentially the Reality within the Geller Field would I think interfere with the navigator's ability to perceive the warp... Not to mention if that were the case then why not let any psyker steer the ship while in the warp since they all have access to psyniscience, and only take the mutants out when you need to translate in and out of the warp?

Zarkhovian_Rhythm said:

You can use the psynescience skill just fine out of the warp, which is also a pocket of reality, admittedly a much bigger one?

On the above, my first read of that section was the identical reaction - it should have been a psynescience test.

On the original subject, yes, that -20 is over the top.

Zarkhovian_Rhythm said:

Seeing the warp is one thing. Steering a starship within the warp is another entirely - it's the difference between being able to look out through the windscreen of a car and driving it, though on a much grander scale. Navigators are trained from a young age to be able to direct starships through the Warp - it's their birthright, and something their instincts were designed for thousands of years ago when they were first created.

I would think it's hard to leave the warp because entities within it are actively trying to stop you.

It's easy to enter the warp, but the things that want to eat you don't want your to leave.

I don't have my book yet so the mishap table could be really nasty, if it's always something awful thne maybe it should be easier.

The main inherent advantage Navigators have over other psykers is that they can perceive the Warp from realspace. I'd be inclined to let another psyker make Psyniscience tests for navigation... from outside the hull of the ship, at the cost of corruption points as they stare unshielded into the depths of the Warp without the mutation and conditioning of a Navigator. This could be an amusing plot twist if, say, there's a PC astropath and everyone decides it's too much **** trouble to rescue the Navigator from whatever tribe of mutated cultists has kidnapped him to be their god this week.

If I were really, really mean, I'd make them flick off the Gellar field for it. I'm pretty sure the Gellar field doesn't block perception, though. Isn't it just a physical barrier preventing warp beings from entering?

Pandadan said:

The Gellar Field imposes a stable bubble of reality around the ship. Daemons don't do well when they're forced to play by the rules of physics.

We rule it as a -20 Navigation Warp test. Seems far more appropriate as effectively your plotting your exit route out, and the -20 can be offset with other stuff that makes it feasible that an experienced Navigator will rarely come out too far from where he wants to be.