I think they just did a mistake by having the spend target lock cost on ordnance, the few missiles that don't require that can be very useful but you won't see proton torps since they cost both points and an action in order too just boost one attack a little bit.

Other than that most missiles need a special pilot or setup to make work but It's usually not worth the hassle and cost. At this point you have to reset ordnance and work it up again from the bottom, I don't think you can "fix" the problem with just cards at this point.

You do realize we have two more ordnance fixes on the way in Wave 8, right?

POTENTIAL.

Let's not get expectations up again like everyone did with Extra Munitions.

that's kinda the fault of the people who thought Extra Munitions would be enough to fix ordnance

You do realize we have two more ordnance fixes on the way in Wave 8, right?

to elaborate,

1.) Guidance ____ mod which specifies the torpedo and missile upgrade weapons

2.) Tracer rounds (Inquisitor Tie Pack)

3.) The jump master's EPT (Deadeye), Crew (Recon), Salvaged (r4), and double torpedo slots (plasma + extra) being the perfect ordnance platformNo low PS target-lock (deadeye)Fully Modified Attack (deadeye triggers r4, leaving recon's extra focus + r4's target-lock to modify the shot with)

You keep saying this but fail to realize throwing moe and more points and filling up every single upgrade slot in order to make a single already overpriced atk just to have basic action economy that every primary or turret already has is not making ordinance better. The problem with ordinance has been well established as overpriced and horrible action economy. Your 4 upgrades on a single ship just to fix the action economy issue still falls pitifully behind on the even worse overpriced category. There is nothing good about your setup except you figured out a way to give a single shot torpedo that now costs 10+ points a focus and target lock. Consider me very unimpressed.

To be fair, recspec and the Astro will still be useful after the ordnance has been shot, so they aren't complete wastes.

To be fair it's basically a 10pt HLC that's only good for one shot. You're better off just taking the HLC, recon and r4 if possible and taking a much better ept since it's the most poweeful upgrade slot. And you can use every turn without relying on a target lock being in arc.

incorrect

it is a 6 point HLC (plasma, munitions, deadeye)

only it's

a.) fully modified by a unique combination of upgrade slots (Deadeye, recon, r4) without needing a pilot ability

and

b.) better, since there's no crit --> hit and it knocks off extra shields

also, it's two shots

r4 and recon stick around after ordnance is spent and are not counted as part of the package, since they will be making your 2 die PWT more than useless

As for EPT, r4 already trumps Predator and PTL is up in the air until the dial is revealed

finally, the generic PS 3 has a visible EPT slot in the box spoiler. This is obviously not something you put on Dengar (who is begging for his title)

To be fair, recspec and the Astro will still be useful after the ordnance has been shot, so they aren't complete wastes.

To be fair it's basically a 10pt HLC that's only good for one shot. You're better off just taking the HLC, recon and r4 if possible and taking a much better ept since it's the most poweeful upgrade slot. And you can use every turn without relying on a target lock being in arc.

incorrect

it is a 6 point HLC (plasma, munitions, deadeye)

only it's

a.) fully modified by a unique combination of upgrade slots (Deadeye, recon, r4) without needing a pilot ability

and

b.) better, since there's no crit --> hit and it knocks off extra shields

also, it's two shots

r4 and recon stick around after ordnance is spent and are not counted as part of the package, since they will be making your 2 die PWT more than useless

As for EPT, r4 already trumps Predator and PTL is up in the air until the dial is revealed

finally, the generic PS 3 has a visible EPT slot in the box spoiler. This is obviously not something you put on Dengar (who is begging for his title)

So your ignoring the 5 points you spend on action economy you wouldn't need (and no one really takes currently because it sucks compared to other options) if you took HLC instead and then ignore the benefit of an ept because you count r4 which you didn't want to count in the cost In The first place.... Wtf are you serious... You are taking 11 points of upgrades for a single atk4, that only works from range 2-3.

I can't imagine a situation where you wouldn't need action economy. It's still two focus (one offense, one defense) and target-lock for fully modified shots

secondly, and I'm not sure why this is difficult to understand but, you cannot take HLC on this ship

the only ships in scum that can even bear a cannon are the IGs, the Scyks (Hah), and the Firespray. The generic jumpmaster promises to be cheaper than all the worthwhile ones (so not the scyk) and even close in price to the naked aggressor

you're only spending 6 points on ordnance specific upgrades; recon + r4 work just fine on the PWT as well.

and, for the last time, extra munitions gives you a total of two shots

that's two

fully modified

4-dice +extra shield damage

shots

and then, you still get a fully modified PWT albeit at 2-dice. r4, recon, and the ship don't all mysteriously vanish once the torps are used up

this really isn't a difficult concept; please try harder

To be fair, recspec and the Astro will still be useful after the ordnance has been shot, so they aren't complete wastes.

To be fair it's basically a 10pt HLC that's only good for one shot. You're better off just taking the HLC, recon and r4 if possible and taking a much better ept since it's the most poweeful upgrade slot. And you can use every turn without relying on a target lock being in arc.

incorrect

it is a 6 point HLC (plasma, munitions, deadeye)

only it's

a.) fully modified by a unique combination of upgrade slots (Deadeye, recon, r4) without needing a pilot ability

and

b.) better, since there's no crit --> hit and it knocks off extra shields

also, it's two shots

r4 and recon stick around after ordnance is spent and are not counted as part of the package, since they will be making your 2 die PWT more than useless

As for EPT, r4 already trumps Predator and PTL is up in the air until the dial is revealed

finally, the generic PS 3 has a visible EPT slot in the box spoiler. This is obviously not something you put on Dengar (who is begging for his title)

So your ignoring the 5 points you spend on action economy you wouldn't need (and no one really takes currently because it sucks compared to other options) if you took HLC instead and then ignore the benefit of an ept because you count r4 which you didn't want to count in the cost In The first place.... Wtf are you serious... You are taking 11 points of upgrades for a single atk4, that only works from range 2-3.

I can't imagine a situation where you wouldn't need action economy. It's still two focus (one offense, one defense) and target-lock for fully modified shots

secondly, and I'm not sure why this is difficult to understand but, you cannot take HLC on this ship

the only ships in scum that can even bear a cannon are the IGs, the Scyks (Hah), and the Firespray. The generic jumpmaster promises to be cheaper than all the worthwhile ones (so not the scyk) and even close in price to the naked aggressor

you're only spending 6 points on ordnance specific upgrades; recon + r4 work just fine on the PWT as well.

and, for the last time, extra munitions gives you a total of two shots

that's two

fully modified

4-dice +extra shield damage

shots

and then, you still get a fully modified PWT albeit at 2-dice. r4, recon, and the ship don't all mysteriously vanish once the torps are used up

this really isn't a difficult concept; please try harder

Fully modified 2 atk turret...... You're the person who said 2 atk turret isn't good..

You are only spending 6 on ordinance only upgrades but spending 5 on upgrades that are in support of that ordinance and is not taken often because there are better upgrades to spend the points on.

It's 9 pts for 1 shot and 11 for two. Which is god awful for a range 2-3 and in arc ordinance platform. I'm sorry to tell you your perfect specific ordinance platform still sucks.

Why not simply reduce the cost of of torps by one??

Why not simply reduce the cost of of torps by one??

Plasmas would be broken at 2. Seriously. People never gave them a chance but my PtL Wedge has taken out all of the Falcon's shields in one attack. The rest probably should be 3 also though.

but spending 5 on upgrades that are in support of that ordinance and is not taken often because there are better upgrades to spend the points on.

Rec Spec is always a good upgrade, and will be very competitive in the Jumpmaster.

Frankly I think Fickle's build for this is pretty terrifying. Because he can take a bunch of other ships to back up his alpha strike. Or Dengar with title if you feel like being evil. Any ship with large shields is gonna get hurt badly by this.

Fully modified 2 atk turret...... You're the person who said 2 atk turret isn't good..

It's more often than not going to be 3. It's on a large base, and you can barrel roll if you want. Ion projectors might be a hilarious upgrade considering the white signors.

In comparing the cost of the overpriced ordinance.

Fully modified 2 atk turret...... You're the person who said 2 atk turret isn't good..

You are only spending 6 on ordinance only upgrades but spending 5 on upgrades that are in support of that ordinance and is not taken often because there are better upgrades to spend the points on.

It's 9 pts for 1 shot and 11 for two. Which is god awful for a range 2-3 and in arc ordinance platform. I'm sorry to tell you your perfect specific ordinance platform still sucks.

PSA: ordnance v ordinance

Also, maybe let's stop arguing over one very specific build.

This is a serious wishlisting thread for wishlisting and speculative purposes only, guys!

How about this one?

Remove the max Range 3 restriction on Target Locking. Then low PS can acquire a TL on the very first turn of combat, and alpha-strike away.

(feel free to flame if this has been said already)

P.S. It'd make Expert Handling slightly more useful too.

The mistake was to made the Extra Munition cost 2 ... A cost 0 was going to be more balanced in comparison with the HLC or BTL.

The requirement of the target lock for the ordenance is important to keep the flavor of the dog fight in videogame style and don't need to change the rule.

Sure Deadeye help but only the high skilled Character can use it, and the low skilled that desperetly need that upgrade cannot.

-Would be nice a Modification that let you spend a Focus at the beginnig of the combat phase to acquire a Target lock,but give you 1 Stress Token, to simulate the difficulty to Lock an Ace.

Our group at the store plays with the following every game that is non tournament. Almost a year now of trying this and everyone loves it.

How about this one?

Remove the max Range 3 restriction on Target Locking. Then low PS can acquire a TL on the very first turn of combat, and alpha-strike away.

(feel free to flame if this has been said already)

P.S. It'd make Expert Handling slightly more useful too.

The mistake was to made the Extra Munition cost 2 ... A cost 0 was going to be more balanced in comparison with the HLC or BTL.

The requirement of the target lock for the ordenance is important to keep the flavor of the dog fight in videogame style and don't need to change the rule.

Sure Deadeye help but only the high skilled Character can use it, and the low skilled that desperetly need that upgrade cannot.

-Would be nice a Modification that let you spend a Focus at the beginnig of the combat phase to acquire a Target lock,but give you 1 Stress Token, to simulate the difficulty to Lock an Ace.

I agree making Extra Munitions 2 pts was a mistake. It's like, "Wow! I can take 2 Homing missiles/Ion torpedoes, which require a TL to fire (and has to be spent for ion torps), for 7 points now! ...Wait... HLC costs that much, doesn't require a TL, and can be shot the entire game... Ya, think I'll find a way to use that instead."

Even making it 1 point would've made munitions more manageable. 2 though is really pushing into into the "Stacking bad points on bad points" realm.

Face it, missile and torpedo secondary weapons are a dead corpse.

Point being torpedoes and missiles are borked beyond precognition,

that's kinda the fault of the people who thought Extra Munitions would be enough to fix ordnance

I respectfully disagree with all of the above. I think ordnance is fine as it is. Extra Munitions changed a lot for the Tie Bomber and for Y-wings. Plasma Torpedoes are a good addition, as well. Extra Munitions allows Tie Bombers to take Homing Missiles, which are fantastic. Getting to use the TL and stopping an Evade is fantastic.

There are other tricks and things you can do for Proton Torpedoes and Concussion Missiles that won't eat up a huge amount of points. They can be a bit specific, but it's still a viable option.

I like every part of that build except Plasma as the payload. Yes, the extra-shield is awesome, but you're a 3-die attack to get it. If you're going to fully modify, surely you want to throw more dice?

Just FYI, Plasma Torpedoes are 4 red dice. They just cost 3. When fired at a large based ship, Y-wing, or B-wing, these are golden.

Face it, missile and torpedo secondary weapons are a dead corpse.

Point being torpedoes and missiles are borked beyond precognition,

that's kinda the fault of the people who thought Extra Munitions would be enough to fix ordnance

I respectfully disagree with all of the above. I think ordnance is fine as it is. Extra Munitions changed a lot for the Tie Bomber and for Y-wings. Plasma Torpedoes are a good addition, as well. Extra Munitions allows Tie Bombers to take Homing Missiles, which are fantastic. Getting to use the TL and stopping an Evade is fantastic.

There are other tricks and things you can do for Proton Torpedoes and Concussion Missiles that won't eat up a huge amount of points. They can be a bit specific, but it's still a viable option.

fixing ordnance for the Tie Bomber isn't the same as fixing ordnance

trust me chadwick, I've completely ripped-off been inspired by your Bombers, and they've done nothing but glorious work as Homing Missiles basically turn them into HLC scyks that don't suck and seismics turn them into something far greater

they slay Aggressors right quick

but Y-wings, I can't see the reason to waste points on Torpedoes outside of expensive, squishy Hortons. Extras giving double Seismics on TLTs, though, are pretty mean

Seismics are pretty **** awesome, especially for someone who doesn't terribly appreciate green dice

the Bomber is in a nice spot because it's

a.) cheap (23 points with homing + em)

b.) sturdy

c.) able to multiply the value of munitions with bombs

I can't think of another ship that can combine these traits, and even the Y can't use extra muni as an extra torp + bomb at the same time

You should look for Darkhorse's article about Bombers. It's fantastic and once you fly in formation to drop 4 Bombs at once, it's amazing. I took out an Outrider when it landed on the middle of 4 of them and 2 Homing Missiles finished him off.

OK...I get what you are saying, but I do think Y-wings with Proton Torpedoes can be useful. I honestly wonder what Horton would be like with Proton. I am no good with Y-wings or Rebels, but think someone should try it. Two effective PT could be better than TLT's. There is that Scum Y-wing, too, though. I also think you can do things with synergy from different Rebels. Maybe Garven or one of the other numerous combos to dish out actions/tokens. Or droids with EPTs. I don't think you would have to dump too many points into it to make it effective.

I think Crackshot might be one of the best EPT's to use with ordnance.