How about this one?
Remove the max Range 3 restriction on Target Locking. Then low PS can acquire a TL on the very first turn of combat, and alpha-strike away.
(feel free to flame if this has been said already)
P.S. It'd make Expert Handling slightly more useful too.
We've seen a lot of new people posting since Worlds.
(Head shake) No.
You do realize we have two more ordnance fixes on the way in Wave 8, right?
You do realize we have two more ordnance fixes on the way in Wave 8, right?
to elaborate,
1.) Guidance ____ mod which specifies the torpedo and missile upgrade weapons
2.) Tracer rounds (Inquisitor Tie Pack)
3.) The jump master's EPT (Deadeye), Crew (Recon), Salvaged (r4), and double torpedo slots (plasma + extra) being the perfect ordnance platform
No low PS target-lock (deadeye)
Fully Modified Attack (deadeye triggers r4, leaving recon's extra focus + r4's target-lock to modify the shot with)
Edited by ficklegreendiceRed line punisher is good for missiles extra munitions, fire control system and the new rule of re target lock something that is target locked already, which means consistent double target lock and next turn you can focus. One target lock to shoot and one to modify as well as a focus and double the missile or torpedo to do it with
Edited by DragoonsonicOrdinance has stunk for awhile, yes, but FFG is taking a great approach to it. Instead of taking the easy (and kind of lame) way out by putting in an errata and changing a core mechanic of the game, they are implementing upgrades and pilots into the game little by little which will continue to improve munitions and their use.
So be patient my friend.
I think FFG's solution costs way too much money for the casual player... It's a shame they didn't include any of the solution in the must-buy second Core set.
Hello Kagi, how nice of you to join us.
Lats, pull up a chair!
Lieutenant Colzet, how may we be of service?
I think FFG's solution costs way too much money for the casual player... It's a shame they didn't include any of the solution in the must-buy second Core set.
1) second core set is no longer must buy
2) it never was for casual players
3) ordnance should probably be fine for casual play anyway since it's not all awful, just not tournament worthy (definitely getting there now)
I'd like to see a cheap mod that removes the range restriction for TL, but only allows you to spend TLs for torpedo and missile attacks.
Edited by GungoYou do realize we have two more ordnance fixes on the way in Wave 8, right?
to elaborate,
1.) Guidance ____ mod which specifies the torpedo and missile upgrade weapons
2.) Tracer rounds (Inquisitor Tie Pack)
3.) The jump master's EPT (Deadeye), Crew (Recon), Salvaged (r4), and double torpedo slots (plasma + extra) being the perfect ordnance platform
No low PS target-lock (deadeye)
Fully Modified Attack (deadeye triggers r4, leaving recon's extra focus + r4's target-lock to modify the shot with)
The thing is, Deadeye is the only ordnance-dedicated Upgrade in fickle's build. After he fires the two torpedoes, he still has recspec+R4 for his primary weapon and defense.
You keep saying this but fail to realize throwing moe and more points and filling up every single upgrade slot in order to make a single already overpriced atk just to have basic action economy that every primary or turret already has is not making ordinance better. The problem with ordinance has been well established as overpriced and horrible action economy. Your 4 upgrades on a single ship just to fix the action economy issue still falls pitifully behind on the even worse overpriced category. There is nothing good about your setup except you figured out a way to give a single shot torpedo that now costs 10+ points a focus and target lock. Consider me very unimpressed.You do realize we have two more ordnance fixes on the way in Wave 8, right?
to elaborate,
1.) Guidance ____ mod which specifies the torpedo and missile upgrade weapons
2.) Tracer rounds (Inquisitor Tie Pack)
3.) The jump master's EPT (Deadeye), Crew (Recon), Salvaged (r4), and double torpedo slots (plasma + extra) being the perfect ordnance platform
No low PS target-lock (deadeye)
Fully Modified Attack (deadeye triggers r4, leaving recon's extra focus + r4's target-lock to modify the shot with)
To be fair, recspec and the Astro will still be useful after the ordnance has been shot, so they aren't complete wastes.
Edited by GungoTo be fair, recspec and the Astro will still be useful after the ordnance has been shot, so they aren't complete wastes.You keep saying this but fail to realize throwing moe and more points and filling up every single upgrade slot in order to make a single already overpriced atk just to have basic action economy that every primary or turret already has is not making ordinance better. The problem with ordinance has been well established as overpriced and horrible action economy. Your 4 upgrades on a single ship just to fix the action economy issue still falls pitifully behind on the even worse overpriced category. There is nothing good about your setup except you figured out a way to give a single shot torpedo that now costs 10+ points a focus and target lock. Consider me very unimpressed.You do realize we have two more ordnance fixes on the way in Wave 8, right?
to elaborate,
1.) Guidance ____ mod which specifies the torpedo and missile upgrade weapons
2.) Tracer rounds (Inquisitor Tie Pack)
3.) The jump master's EPT (Deadeye), Crew (Recon), Salvaged (r4), and double torpedo slots (plasma + extra) being the perfect ordnance platform
No low PS target-lock (deadeye)
Fully Modified Attack (deadeye triggers r4, leaving recon's extra focus + r4's target-lock to modify the shot with)
(Head shake) No.
I have to agree. 
You do realize we have two more ordnance fixes on the way in Wave 8, right?
You do realize we have two more ordnance fixes on the way in Wave 8, right?
to elaborate,
1.) Guidance ____ mod which specifies the torpedo and missile upgrade weapons
2.) Tracer rounds (Inquisitor Tie Pack)
3.) The jump master's EPT (Deadeye), Crew (Recon), Salvaged (r4), and double torpedo slots (plasma + extra) being the perfect ordnance platform
No low PS target-lock (deadeye)
Fully Modified Attack (deadeye triggers r4, leaving recon's extra focus + r4's target-lock to modify the shot with)
Just to clarify, you guys do remember what happened the last time they tried to fix missiles and torpedoes. A new turret that is more powerful than 3 PWT came along and got top in worlds. 
Face it, missile and torpedo secondary weapons are a dead corpse. Lets not buff turrets cannons and range 3 non-discarding secondary weapons any more by so called torpedo/missile fixes. 
You do realize we have two more ordnance fixes on the way in Wave 8, right?
to elaborate,
1.) Guidance ____ mod which specifies the torpedo and missile upgrade weapons
2.) Tracer rounds (Inquisitor Tie Pack)
3.) The jump master's EPT (Deadeye), Crew (Recon), Salvaged (r4), and double torpedo slots (plasma + extra) being the perfect ordnance platform
No low PS target-lock (deadeye)
Fully Modified Attack (deadeye triggers r4, leaving recon's extra focus + r4's target-lock to modify the shot with)
I like every part of that build except Plasma as the payload. Yes, the extra-shield is awesome, but you're a 3-die attack to get it. If you're going to fully modify, surely you want to throw more dice?
For the investment you've put in, I suspect Ion Torpedoes are probably your scariest bet.
Are you claiming tlt is a ordinance fix?
Because I fail to see the connection.
The only two ord fixes the devs created was munition failsafe which no one uses. And extra ammunition which is only really used with bombs currently. I don't think ffg realizes having more overpriced Unmodified atks doesn't help the fact they are still overpriced Unmodified atks.
To be fair it's basically a 10pt HLC that's only good for one shot. You're better off just taking the HLC, recon and r4 if possible and taking a much better ept since it's the most powereful upgrade slot. And you can use every turn without relying on a target lock being in arc.
Uh, the Jumpmaster has no cannon slot, so it can't take hlc. And Deadeye is there so you don't need a target lock to fire in arc.
Quick comparison.
Wild Space Fringer with HLC -37 points
Contract Killer with Plasma Torpedoes, EM, R4 Agromech, Recspec, and Deadeye- 36 points*
The WSF does get as many shots as you can line up, but the Contract Killer will get much more powerful in arc shots, and is better at attacking out of arc.
*Based on Dengar's point value of 33 points, the Contract killer is probably 24 or 25 points.
Are you claiming tlt is a ordinance fix?
Because I fail to see the connection.
The only two ord fixes the devs created was munition failsafe which no one uses. And extra ammunition which is only really used with bombs currently. I don't think ffg realizes having more overpriced Unmodified atks doesn't help the fact they are still overpriced Unmodified atks.
Uh, who mentioned TLT?
Edited by SquarkThis topic has been debated long ago. So I've been told.
Uh, the Jumpmaster has no cannon slot, so it can't take hlc. And Deadeye is there so you don't need a target lock to fire in arc.To be fair it's basically a 10pt HLC that's only good for one shot. You're better off just taking the HLC, recon and r4 if possible and taking a much better ept since it's the most powereful upgrade slot. And you can use every turn without relying on a target lock being in arc.
Quick comparison.
Wild Space Fringer with HLC -37 points
Contract Killer with Plasma Torpedoes, EM, R4 Agromech, Recspec, and Deadeye- 36 points*
The WSF does get as many shots as you can line up, but the Contract Killer will get much more powerful in arc shots, and is better at attacking out of arc.
*Based on Dengar's point value of 33 points, the Contract killer is probably 24 or 25 points.
Uh, who mentioned TLT?Are you claiming tlt is a ordinance fix?
Because I fail to see the connection.
The only two ord fixes the devs created was munition failsafe which no one uses. And extra ammunition which is only really used with bombs currently. I don't think ffg realizes having more overpriced Unmodified atks doesn't help the fact they are still overpriced Unmodified atks.
The tlt comment was for the guy who said the last fix made a turret ship the best at worlds. I presume he meant tlt but don't see the connection to ordinance
Edited by Gungo
To be fair it's basically a 10pt HLC that's only good for one shot. You're better off just taking the HLC, recon and r4 if possible and taking a much better ept since it's the most poweeful upgrade slot. And you can use every turn without relying on a target lock being in arc.
To be fair, recspec and the Astro will still be useful after the ordnance has been shot, so they aren't complete wastes.
You keep saying this but fail to realize throwing moe and more points and filling up every single upgrade slot in order to make a single already overpriced atk just to have basic action economy that every primary or turret already has is not making ordinance better. The problem with ordinance has been well established as overpriced and horrible action economy. Your 4 upgrades on a single ship just to fix the action economy issue still falls pitifully behind on the even worse overpriced category. There is nothing good about your setup except you figured out a way to give a single shot torpedo that now costs 10+ points a focus and target lock. Consider me very unimpressed.
You do realize we have two more ordnance fixes on the way in Wave 8, right?
to elaborate,
1.) Guidance ____ mod which specifies the torpedo and missile upgrade weapons
2.) Tracer rounds (Inquisitor Tie Pack)
3.) The jump master's EPT (Deadeye), Crew (Recon), Salvaged (r4), and double torpedo slots (plasma + extra) being the perfect ordnance platform
No low PS target-lock (deadeye)
Fully Modified Attack (deadeye triggers r4, leaving recon's extra focus + r4's target-lock to modify the shot with)
incorrect
it is a 6 point HLC (plasma, munitions, deadeye)
only it's
a.) fully modified by a unique combination of upgrade slots (Deadeye, recon, r4) without needing a pilot ability
and
b.) better, since there's no crit --> hit and it knocks off extra shields
also, it's two shots
r4 and recon stick around after ordnance is spent and are not counted as part of the package, since they will be making your 2 die PWT more than useless
As for EPT, r4 already trumps Predator and PTL is up in the air until the dial is revealed
finally, the generic PS 3 has a visible EPT slot in the box spoiler. This is obviously not something you put on Dengar (who is begging for his title)
Edited by ficklegreendiceAre you claiming tlt is a ordinance fix?
Because I fail to see the connection.
The only two ord fixes the devs created was munition failsafe which no one uses. And extra ammunition which is only really used with bombs currently. I don't think ffg realizes having more overpriced Unmodified atks doesn't help the fact they are still overpriced Unmodified atks.
Wave 7 was supposed to be the Munitions fix with new heavy bombers, upgrades like Extra Munitions, new torpedoes, new missile and new bombs and stuff. Instead Wave 7 became the wave of TWIN LASER TURRETS!
Kind of a disappointment when you come to think about it. The only meta defining thing from last wave was an upgrade card. Wave 6 brought in a new faction, Wave 5 had two meta defining ships (and yes brought in the whole two ship meta), Wave 4 only had 1 meta defining release in the Phantom but that was a meta defining ship not just an upgrade.
But back on topic, FFG just doesn't know how to get these discarding secondary weapons to a point where they have any competitive viability. And when you come to think about it it is almost impossible. The only time it is worth to spend points on a discarding upgrade if it does one of two things.
Crack shot helps with #1 better than Proton Torpedoes. With crackshot you know you are going to get that final hit and makes perfect sense to expend it thus equipping it to your ships seems reasonable. Proton Torpedoes doesn't give you the same advantage. Sure you might be able to take out a 5 hit point ship in a single hit but unlikely. There is even no guarantee you will take out a TIE Fighter with it. So discarding it is risky and the Munitions failsafe takes up a valuable modification slot as well as costing an additional point.
Point being torpedoes and missiles are borked beyond precognition, and we will still end up with just more turrets and more cannons that end up better in all instances. Asking for a fix will more likely buff ALL SECONDARY WEAPONS to include turrets and cannons such as TLT and HLC. I would rather avoid that scenario, TLT and HLC are potent enough as it is.
Edited by MarinealverI realize it wouldn't fix the action economy or low pilot skill lock issues, but what if you just didn't discard missiles, torpedoes, or bombs after you used them? They just become an upgraded attack you have, but it's conditional.
Suddenly, Rhymer with Deadeye and Advanced Homing Missiles is a thing? Is that bad? Is that broken at 30 points? I don't think so.
You do realize we have two more ordnance fixes on the way in Wave 8, right?
POTENTIAL.
Let's not get expectations up again like everyone did with Extra Munitions.