This is the second time since worlds that I have seen someone bash on Paul for winning the title for a third time, and it annoys me to no end.

He did nothing of the sort. He posed a question to the group.

There's always people who figure out what they need to do right off the bat and people who cling to a bad idea no matter how many times they lose doing the same stupid thing. Which is what you are doing now.

Well, I thank you for the insight of my intelligence.

Lets make this easy for all the readers, If you have commented on this tread and have play tested a released product in X-Wing raise your hand. This would show a bias in the opinion you have. such as my opinion is biased towards the latter as I'm not a play tester.

**** you got me. I admit, it was I, Hondo, who created the twin laser turret. It was I who told Pheaver not to rely on the dice simulator and use the Force instead. Did I mention the Force is real as well?

Playtesters often suffer from having multiple wordings of a card to contend with giving them a bit more struggle. Your average player has the benefit of playing with all legal cards and rules as much as they want.

The influence of playtesters is far smaller than you realize. They are important, but in no way design the direction or flow of a game.

Other games have testers out in the community as X-Wing does. Very few of these games allow their testers to compete for prizes. Should X-Wing be the same?

Source?

While I am on the playtest group, so I can provide feedback on the cards I've designed, I don't actually do much playtesting. I've found that it interferes with practicing for Regionals, Worlds, etc. Generally, I've just provided my gut inputs on cards ("I'd never play this in a game", etc) and then let the designers and actual playtesters go from there.

I do push back against playtesters who suggest nerfs to my card, though.

Lets turn this around a bit. Congratulations on the win.

Disclaimer: I am not a playtester. I considered playtesting, but the NDA/non-compete agreement would require me to sign over all MathWing IP. Alex lobbied my case to try and find a happy middle ground but legal would not budge. I am not willing to sign over any IP so I declined to join.

Should play testers be allowed to play in Regionals, Nationals and Worlds?

Absolutely, yes.

The best players with the best squads did the best at Worlds. At the top levels, your tournament can very suddenly end if you make one minor mistake. Paul consistently figures out the best ships to take, and then stays fresh throughout the entire tournament to minimize the risk of making that one mistake. He is currently on something like a 29-game winning streak at Worlds.

In my case I went 6-2 at Worlds and was #20. Not quite enough MoV to make the cut. I was slightly outflown in round 3 by Aaron Bonar (who also got a ton of lucky breaks during the game -- I would love a rematch sometime). That's loss #1. Then I made a dumb mistake in round 4 against another extremely good player who made the cut last year, I had a little bit of bad luck taking 5 damage on my IG in one shot as a result, and voila I had my 2nd loss. Poof, there goes my tournament chances.

Moral of the story: be physically prepared. I was running low on energy rounds 3 and 4 because I hadn't eaten yet, and "lunch" break was not until 5:00. Not eating is my Kryptonite, so I'll be more disciplined next year regardless of whatever the tournament schedule is.

But look at Paul as a comparison (Kris talked about this on the most recent NOVA podcast): he takes care of himself physically and mentally. Not only is there a lot of game preparation, but there is a lot of game-day preparedness as well. At that level you have to approach it like a disciplined athlete to do well.

I'm sure FFG locks down their testers under a Non-Disclosure-Agreement, as to protect the brand. The advantage (or non-advantage) of play testers in worlds would be easy to see. All we would have to do is see how many of the total players were testers and where they finished. Unfortunately that is unlikely to happen as I'm sure as part of the NDA your not allowed to say wether your a tester or not.

The list of playtesters is printed on the back of the blister insert for each wave. It is all public knowledge once product is released. There are a lot of very good players in the list.

Executive summary of the NDA: as a playtester you are allowed to say that you are a playtester for upcoming FFG products, but you are not allowed to say what products you playtested until they are released for sale. Even after a product is released for sale, you cannot ever divulge anything about FFG's internal playtesting process.

Playtesters absolutely should be allowed to compete. Hell, I feel bad for Alex Davy, because he wants to play in Regionals, but isn't allowed to. Heck, he has to travel for Store Championships.

Actually, Alex won the 2015 FFG Store Championship with 6 A-wings!

Can you or him talk about Paul Heaver's tourney prep? It must be something outstanding.

Heck, knowing I can barely get a comfy day of sleep on a normal day, assuring a sound sleep for a night is like rolling green dice.

--

Also, is Paul even a playtester? I think he suggests a card, maybe they play it a little, but ... that's about it? Shockingly Stay on Target hasn't been used anywhere.

I know some people who are playtesters... They're not the ones I fear running into in a game.

This i dont know exactly, but I have the feeling I should not be impressed by how the playtest process is done. There are some mindboggling things that happened with our playtesters in the group.

While I am on the playtest group, so I can provide feedback on the cards I've designed, I don't actually do much playtesting. I've found that it interferes with practicing for Regionals, Worlds, etc. Generally, I've just provided my gut inputs on cards ("I'd never play this in a game", etc) and then let the designers and actual playtesters go from there.

I do push back against playtesters who suggest nerfs to my card, though.

Lets turn this around a bit. Congratulations on the win.

Indeed, wasn't Paul runner up at Imperial Assault too? Good lord, somebody hide the Armada boxes from that guy!

Other games have testers out in the community as X-Wing does. Very few of these games allow their testers to compete for prizes. Should X-Wing be the same?

Source?

Alex, I have what people tell me. MTG will use testers but they are paid and they are not allowed to play even in an FNM.

This is not an assumption that Paul only won because he has an advantage of being a play tester, He does have an advantage of being the best player. This post is to question wether or not play testers should be allowed to compete for prizes in larger events.

This is the second time since worlds that I have seen someone bash on Paul for winning the title for a third time, and it annoys me to no end.

He did nothing of the sort. He posed a question to the group.

Just because you say "No offense" doesn't give you licence to then say whatever offensive thing you want.

The OP asserting, with a poorly conceived argument, that Paul (and other playtesters) have an unfair advantage is attempting to detract from his (and thier) competitive accomplishments whether he states that he is intending to do so or not. You can not say that someone had an unfair advantage atban event without calling into question the validity of them winning that event.

I have no issue with the OP doing such. The issue I have is he is doing so with a poorly thought out argument that betrays that he really doesn't have any idea what a playtesting process involves or what a playtester does. Numerous people pointed out the above.

Other games have testers out in the community as X-Wing does. Very few of these games allow their testers to compete for prizes. Should X-Wing be the same?

Source?

Alex, I have what people tell me. MTG will use testers but they are paid and they are not allowed to play even in an FNM.

This is not an assumption that Paul only won because he has an advantage of being a play tester, He does have an advantage of being the best player. This post is to question wether or not play testers should be allowed to compete for prizes in larger events.

Magic has a much more rigourous process. And much longer. And more closed. They also get credit online in articles and things.

As far as I can tell, Xwing's process is...... well. Unimpressive.

How does play-testing actually work? Are you required to play-test ship x/card x/rule change x for y games in a given timeframe? Or it's more free form?

Other games have testers out in the community as X-Wing does. Very few of these games allow their testers to compete for prizes. Should X-Wing be the same?

Source?

Alex, I have what people tell me. MTG will use testers but they are paid and they are not allowed to play even in an FNM.

This is not an assumption that Paul only won because he has an advantage of being a play tester, He does have an advantage of being the best player. This post is to question wether or not play testers should be allowed to compete for prizes in larger events.

Privateer Press, which is the only other playtested miniatures game on the level with X-wing, also uses unpaid (though compensated with product) external playtesters. And they are also allowed to compete in events.

Sitho: A documentary about playtesting horror stories and secret playtester conspiracy.

Playtesters absolutely should be allowed to compete. Hell, I feel bad for Alex Davy, because he wants to play in Regionals, but isn't allowed to. Heck, he has to travel for Store Championships.

Actually, Alex won the 2015 FFG Store Championship with 6 A-wings!

I didn't realize it was the FFG one. I knew that he won one, and traveled to another. Just a faulty memory I guess. The point is, there is nothing wrong with the Designer competing. I feel bad that he can't compete in the Regionals, since he really seems to want to. But, that's the cost of designing, I guess.

Other games have testers out in the community as X-Wing does. Very few of these games allow their testers to compete for prizes. Should X-Wing be the same?

Source?

Alex, I have what people tell me. MTG will use testers but they are paid and they are not allowed to play even in an FNM.

This is not an assumption that Paul only won because he has an advantage of being a play tester, He does have an advantage of being the best player. This post is to question wether or not play testers should be allowed to compete for prizes in larger events.

Yeah, FFG ain't WOTC. The vast bulk of their playtesters are volunteers. I'm not sure they get any compensation. To add being unable to compete just seems extra salt in the wound.

FFG also uses playtesters that are paid and not allowed to play in the upper levels of events, they are all internal testers that work at FFG. But those only make up some of thier playtesters.

Privateer Press, which is the only other playtested miniatures game on the level with X-wing, also uses unpaid (though compensated with product) external playtesters. And they are also allowed to compete in events.

My impression of FFG's internal playtesters is that it is anyone they can grab from the office.

This is the second time since worlds that I have seen someone bash on Paul for winning the title for a third time, and it annoys me to no end.

He did nothing of the sort. He posed a question to the group.

Just because you say "No offense" doesn't give you licence to then say whatever offensive thing you want.

The OP asserting, with a poorly conceived argument, that Paul (and other playtesters) have an unfair advantage is attempting to detract from his (and thier) competitive accomplishments whether he states that he is intending to do so or not. You can not say that someone had an unfair advantage atban event without calling into question the validity of them winning that event.

I have no issue with the OP doing such.

The issue I have is he is doing so with a poorly thought out argument

that betrays that he really doesn't have any idea what a playtesting process involves or what a playtester does. Numerous people pointed out the above.

That's possible, I have no idea what his knowledge is, I know nothing of playtesting beyond the fact that they like play the game. I'm glad the community is helping raise his awareness.

I've never playtested FFG products, but I was a playtester on at least 3 different CCGs for Decipher once upon a time.

There's no reason to exclude playtesters from competitive events, and their actual influence on design decisions is pretty overstated.

I've playtested, and I am absolutely certain I obtain no competitive advantage. In fact, although the effect is mild, I think it's the opposite, because time spent testing is time not spent practicing, competing, or even thinking about the current state of the game as a whole..

I can also say that I would never have agreed to playtest if competing were disallowed ... and I don't even compete above the Regionals level.

On the other hand, I'm a startlingly mediocre player, so anyone who chooses to can dismiss my input pretty easily.

First off, anyone who can play X Wing for ten hours a day two days in a row, and win all of those games, pretty much deserves to win them.

Especially considering he also ended up a finalist at Imperial Assault and competed in Armada (don't know where he ended).

What games do exclude testers from the organized play?

What games do exclude testers from the organized play?

Magic is the one that comes to mind but their testing is a whole new level of everything.

What games do exclude testers from the organized play?

Magic is the one that comes to mind but their testing is a whole new level of everything.

The future future league is composed of full time employees no?

On the other hand, I'm a startlingly mediocre player, so anyone who chooses to can dismiss my input pretty easily.

When I grow up I want to be mediocre like you, Jeff.

What games do exclude testers from the organized play?

Chess. Letting the playtesters compete would include extensive archeological digging and the prodigious application of black magic. After careful consideration FIDE decided just not to allow it, which is probably best for everyone involved. But there are plans for a reincarnation centre somewhere in central Asia.

How does play-testing actually work? Are you required to play-test ship x/card x/rule change x for y games in a given timeframe? Or it's more free form?

Playtesters are not allowed to discuss the playtest process it is part of the NDA we signed.

What games do exclude testers from the organized play?

Chess. Letting the playtesters compete would include extensive archeological digging and the prodigious application of black magic. After careful consideration FIFA decided just not to allow it, which is probably best for everyone involved. But there are plans for a reincarnation centre somewhere in central Asia.

I know FIFA is corrupt, but meddling with chess?