So, I really want to talk about what exactly we are paying for in this ship. The idea being that the best case scenario you are essentially doubling the movement of four b-wings for a turn so that you can attack with them more than you otherwise would be able to.

So is 8 points and the use of the title slot worth getting four b-wings into the fight a turn earlier? I think it might be.

I did table my opponent in the game I played last night. Best case scenario you get four more black and four more blue dice against the most threatening target in your opponents fleet. I think this is for sure worth it.

But I also want to bring up the idea of activation equity. If you are bringing squadrons you are spending points that could otherwise be spent on ships and thus will have less activations. I'm not so certain that this is as big of a disadvantage as people seen to think.

I think it is all a part of flying your fleet and planning for what your opponent is going to do. If he has a bunch of activations that don't do any damage then the quality of the activations should be taken into account. My Independence activating four b-wings that all get to do runs on enemy ships then doing a broadside to a gladiator and another arc on another ship is way way more equitable than a vsd ploting along and not having any targets to shoot.

Tell me what you guys think. Hopefully I've given some food for thought.

I used this in a game and think it is totally worth the cost.

I don't have a measurement tool in from if me but is it actually doubling? Is the distance from two to four equal to the distance between zero and two? No clue honestly asking.

I concur. My favorite aspect of the game is focusing on carrier based tactics and despite the benefits of Yavaris I think Independence will be a viable option going forward. Been fiddling with a new list for wave 2 focusing on squadron synergy and very interested in trying it out this weekend. Obviously not one of the most hearty fleet lists out there but I believe with the right timing and maneuvering it could be fun and do some damage.

Commander: Garm Bel Iblis

Assault Objective: Precision Strike

Defense Objective: Fleet Ambush

Navigation Objective: Superior Positions

Number of activations versus strength of activation is a HUGE topic that I think the Star Wars: Armada play group is getting around to only lately (it's been a big deal in Dropzone Commander, a game I dabble in, for about a year now). The short answer is that the strength of number of activations is apparent (as people recognize when they get out-activated) but the strength of fewer stronger activations is more subtle, as it is not as blatant and the ramifications are often felt later on (usually once destroying other activations). So the answer is that ever-favorite "it depends."

I think if you can get a meaningful benefit from Independence once, it's worth considering. If you can get a meaningful benefit twice, it's absolutely amazing. The question becomes what officer to combine it with - Raymus for the extra B-Wing or Adar Tallon for the "fling and sting" of a speed 4 B-Wing that can still hit someone later on?

I don't have a measurement tool in from if me but is it actually doubling? Is the distance from two to four equal to the distance between zero and two? No clue honestly asking.

Its ~5mm shorter than doubling, as far as I can tell without an actual ruler...

Making a mark on the table at the edge of the ruler, and at the '2' line, then transposing the measuring tool so the '2' line is in line with the '4' line, I can see that the edge of table line isn't lined up with the '2' line, its approximately in line with the Bottom of the actual number "2"...

So yeah, ~5mm

from what I can tell,

distance 1 + 2 (close range) = distance 4 + 5 (long range)

0.75 "distance" + 0.25 "distance" = 0.5 "distance" + 0.5 "distance"

distances 3 through 5 are all the same length; 1 is longer than 2.

so it is basically doubling the speed, going from close range to halfway into long range.

anyway, @ 400 it's not difficult to get a decent number of activations in

Boosted Comms, Garm, Independence and 3 B-wings, 1 Keyan, 1 Jan fits in with three Escort Nebs (one Yavaris) for four total ships

Number of activations versus strength of activation is a HUGE topic that I think the Star Wars: Armada play group is getting around to only lately (it's been a big deal in Dropzone Commander, a game I dabble in, for about a year now). The short answer is that the strength of number of activations is apparent (as people recognize when they get out-activated) but the strength of fewer stronger activations is more subtle, as it is not as blatant and the ramifications are often felt later on (usually once destroying other activations). So the answer is that ever-favorite "it depends."

I think if you can get a meaningful benefit from Independence once, it's worth considering. If you can get a meaningful benefit twice, it's absolutely amazing. The question becomes what officer to combine it with - Raymus for the extra B-Wing or Adar Tallon for the "fling and sting" of a speed 4 B-Wing that can still hit someone later on?

I love this idea. I have always played around a lot with strong strong activations can I get the Keyan/Luke Skywalker Yavaris double hits? (I did at Sullust, and I one shot a AFMKII, Granted there were some sexy dice and face up card rng there) But I think you have to leverage these and think about your moves a little more. Yeah 4 Bwings in front of a star destroyer is cool, but are they going to accomplish anything? Now 4 B-wings in front of a Raider. That sounds fun

So is 8 points and the use of the title slot worth getting four b-wings into the fight a turn earlier? I think it might be.

Of course it is, if it successfully allows you to use your four B-Wings on a turn you wouldn't have been able to otherwise. You've paid 8pts to get to use 50+pts for a turn they would have otherwise been paperweights.

I used this in a game and think it is totally worth the cost.

Faction: Rebel Alliance

Flagship: (162 pts)

MC80 Command Cruiser(106 pts)

Title (8 pts)

Admiral Ackbar (38 pts)

Adar Tallon (10 pts)

Fleet Ship 1: (70 pts)

MC30c Torpedo Frigate(63 pts)

Gunnery Team (7 pts)

Fleet Ship 2: (80 pts)

Assault Frigate Mark II B(72 pts)

Gallant Haven (8 pts)

Squadrons (84 of 130 pts):

6x B-Wing Squadron (84 pts)

I would use the MC80 to slingshot b-wings into where they would be next turn with one of them being triggered by Tallon to be primed for an activation by Gallant Haven during that round of combat. the rest of the list is pretty obvi what it does

Sorry,a little off-topic, but... Was there a specific reason you put Gunnery Teams on a Torpedo Shrimp? I haven't actually tried putting it on there yet, but I really can't imagine a scenario where I would use it...

Basically, but not quite. It is a tad shorter.

For me, when I turn my Range/Distance ruler on its side, I can see the Green Line of the "Range" side extend down into the punchout side, and still see the "Speed 3" line, and they don't line up...

By somewhere between 3-5mm, eyeballing

So its effectively double, but not exactly

But I also want to bring up the idea of activation equity. If you are bringing squadrons you are spending points that could otherwise be spent on ships and thus will have less activations. I'm not so certain that this is as big of a disadvantage as people seen to think.

I think it is all a part of flying your fleet and planning for what your opponent is going to do.

Independance doesnt help my Y wings much...so its not worth it. Meh.

If you run B's its good, but the B is an inferior platform. I know thats flamebait. Compare squadron to squadron its better than a Y...but Y's allow for better total squadron composition, are more resiliant, more efficient across the board, and easier to use unaided.

If your gameplan is based on B's, it has inherrwnt weaknesses out of the gate that a force that consists of mainly Y wings doesnt have.

Its a deep subject.

In short, yea, a B wing can work, but there are better options to fill your 134pts with.

...

I don't think that's a fair call in your last line, Deadshane... I mean, I don't have to argue the start and all, because that's your call, but its the end assertion.

I'm not spending 134 points to shepherd B-Wings around.

I'm paying the Independance Title to do that. That's what, 8 points?

I'm still getting a MonCal Cruiser out of the deal, with all that it includes. Really, all I'm missing out on is the Home One or Defiance Titles.

Everything else is still there.

I think he means the squadron cap...

Y'know, you're right, and I completely missed that, so I'll edit away

I have no problems admitting when I'm wrong

I used this in a game and think it is totally worth the cost.

Faction: Rebel Alliance

Flagship: (162 pts)

MC80 Command Cruiser(106 pts)

Title (8 pts)

Admiral Ackbar (38 pts)

Adar Tallon (10 pts)

Fleet Ship 1: (70 pts)

MC30c Torpedo Frigate(63 pts)

Gunnery Team (7 pts)

Fleet Ship 2: (80 pts)

Assault Frigate Mark II B(72 pts)

Gallant Haven (8 pts)

Squadrons (84 of 130 pts):

6x B-Wing Squadron (84 pts)

I would use the MC80 to slingshot b-wings into where they would be next turn with one of them being triggered by Tallon to be primed for an activation by Gallant Haven during that round of combat. the rest of the list is pretty obvi what it does

Sorry,a little off-topic, but... Was there a specific reason you put Gunnery Teams on a Torpedo Shrimp? I haven't actually tried putting it on there yet, but I really can't imagine a scenario where I would use it...

It's on there because of Ackbar. the MC80 has enough dice on its side arcs as is, but the MC30 with the blues and red, if only shooting from the side, also get 2 red added. granted I just have to shoot at 2 different things. as it is the Frigate doesn't throw that many dice. but I need it for Gallant Haven. so the only guns really in this list are the 2 wav 2

It's on there because of Ackbar. the MC80 has enough dice on its side arcs as is, but the MC30 with the blues and red, if only shooting from the side, also get 2 red added. granted I just have to shoot at 2 different things. as it is the Frigate doesn't throw that many dice. but I need it for Gallant Haven. so the only guns really in this list are the 2 wav 2

Wait...but the Scout frigate is the one with blues and reds. The Torpedo frigate has blues and blacks...which means no shooting at long range, even with Ackbar.

Independance doesnt help my Y wings much...so its not worth it. Meh.

If you run B's its good, but the B is an inferior platform. I know thats flamebait. Compare squadron to squadron its better than a Y...but Y's allow for better total squadron composition, are more resiliant, more efficient across the board, and easier to use unaided.

If your gameplan is based on B's, it has inherrwnt weaknesses out of the gate that a force that consists of mainly Y wings doesnt have.

Its a deep subject.

In short, yea, a B wing can work, but there are better options to fill your 134pts with.

I gotta disagree with you here. The B-Wings are harder to use because of the speed, but make up for it with pretty damned nasty firepower on all fronts. If anything, the B-Wing is better unaided because of the lack of heavy and the 3 anti-squadron. Watching B-Wings tie down Y-Wings and TIE bombers while blasting away at ships themselves is priceless. It is hardly a rare event either. The B-Wing is not inherently weaker than the Y-Wing. They are two very different craft.

I already loved them in wave 1, but the tools for wave 2 make them even better. I would go out of on a limb and say that they, more than any other squadron benefit from Boost Comms, especially in tandem with Independence. I also see them being the perfect compliment to a non-upgraded MC80, since both travel at relatively slow speeds. I will admit that Assault Frigates and B-Wings do not get along. AFIIs want to use that speed 3. This is where I think the Y-Wing shines. It can keep up the pace.

It's on there because of Ackbar. the MC80 has enough dice on its side arcs as is, but the MC30 with the blues and red, if only shooting from the side, also get 2 red added. granted I just have to shoot at 2 different things. as it is the Frigate doesn't throw that many dice. but I need it for Gallant Haven. so the only guns really in this list are the 2 wav 2

Wait...but the Scout frigate is the one with blues and reds. The Torpedo frigate has blues and blacks...which means no shooting at long range, even with Ackbar.

Shrimp really don't want to be at medium range (mitigated somewhat by Mon Mothma), because they're taking more fire and their evades are weakened, but they're not in close range for them sweet blacks yet. And you rarely (almost never) get Gunnery Teams shots at close range, which is why you almost never see them on Glads.

So by putting GT on torpedo shrimp, you're really building for medium-range GT shots, which is exactly where you don't want to be.

I get what you're saying about ramping up your firepower on there, but I'd suggest that you could probably find somewhere that those points could be spent more effectively. I'll put in a plug for Ordnance Experts, or (if you're looking for ranged shots) upgrading from the torpedo shrimp to the scout.

Edit: And sorry for sidetracking the thread... I'm done.