seems to have been a slight Fel's Wrath, but I got a game in yesterday where my opponent could convince me of the viability of this adorable little bugger

basically, I completely forgot the Raider had such a potent anti-squadron and just piled in like an idiot on top of an opposing Bossk. Then, this started happening:

as he had initiative, he then activated first the following turn

That little Raider later got mulched by a TLRC Cr-90 and a Slaved Turret Salvation, but he almost literally ate my entire compliment of 2 As and 3 Yt-2400s (one Dash) by himself

I'm sporting a profound respect for that otherwise unassuming little ship, and I'd have to hazard a guess that Impetuous could be pretty **** decent

Both titles are a bit of a let down.

The one that engages is bad on a ship that can only take six damage from one hullzone, and has no way of redirecting damage and the other title is a great way to sneak in what, an extra point and a half damage? Hard pass.

Then there's the two black die ani-squadron, better hope there's no names pilots around!

Or ships, which kill you at long range where you have no dice to shoot back or close range where you have no defense but a single brace and the hope you live long enough to use the only hull zone you have that's of any value.

Raiders are bad at destroying squadrons with their mere two dice, and bad at destroying ships with their short range and poor armaments. They also have four health and limited defensive capabilities. They're just a disappointment compared to everything else.

Poor armaments? Limited defensive capabilities? Bad at destroying squadrons? I strongly suspect that you haven't tried flying one (or against one) yet, because these are not the words of one who has seen Raiders raiding.

Even if you're not very creative, at the very least they're a faster, bendier, and cheaper platform for the current Screed/ACM nonsense. If you want to look past wave 1, you might also notice that Ordnance Experts gives the R-1 almost guaranteed 2 damage against every fighter they shoot at. Or that 4 of them with APT and Screed could conceivably take down an MC80 with full shields in one round. Or that the Empire now has the most maneuverable ship in the game, that can literally orbit a fighter furball without a nav command and pour black dice into it.

Or that you can kit them with Expanded Launchers, Ordnance Experts, and support with Vader for two blue dice and FOUR, DOUBLE-rerollable black dice out the front... for 61 points each. And oh by the way they're still amazing against fighters too: thanks, rerollable double black anti-squadron dice!

If you're running Instigator, you run it in conjunction with a fighter that's built to take punishment--Vader, maybe, or Boba--and fly the two of them into the middle of the other guy's cloud of bombers. Bam, those bombers are all engaged, all have to shoot at that fighter first, can't be released by either Intel or Grit, and oh by the way are taking double blacks across the board every round. And who knows, maybe you spent the four points to reroll them all.

If you're running Impetuous, enhance those anti squadron shots with something. Ordnance Experts on the R-1, Point Defense Reroute and maybe Ruthless Strategists on the R-2.

The Raider is an amazingly flexible tool, and as an almost exclusively Rebel player, I fear it when I see it. One advantage you may not immediately recognize from the other side of the table: I consider a Raider at close range to be a mandatory kill. Sure, taking a side arc from an AF2 and 3 B-wings might (*might!*) kill it in one turn... But that's a whole turn that I'm not able to spend shooting that ISD barreling down on me from behind it. And what did it cost you, 50, 55 points?

Don't underestimate it because it's dinky. I've had people doing that with my CR90B's for months, and they pay the durasteel price for it. This little guy is bendier, just as resilient, and hits much harder than those.

This is a man that knows wtf he is talking about. And he didn't even remember the Raider as an overload pulse missile supporting an ISD II that is lining up a front arc of death, don't even have to run the thing in front of the ISD, just beside it, and its a handful of extra blue dice out the front with a chance (guarantee with screed) at exhausting the targets tokens and laying it up for an Avenger punting.

This is why I now own 5 of these little bastards.

I was on the "These things are terrible" side of the tracks. Until I played with one. It pretty much won me the game.

It was able to have the Instigator tie down a bunch of Rebel fighters. This allowed my fighters to jump all over my opponents MC80.

It tied up the fighters for 2 turns, and then my Raider got behind the MC80.

I think the misconception is that these little ships are not a threat. So it was mostly ignored while the MC80 engaged my other ships.

By the time my Raider got behind the MC80 it was almost dead. 2 backs and 2 blues from behind equaled 1 dead MC80.

I now LOVE the raider. Especially the Instigator.

Yeah people underestimate the Raider until they play in a game with one. It's not a powerhouse but you will be punished if you ignore it. The Raider-I with Expanded Launchers and Ordnance Experts packs a serious wallop and does just fine versus squadrons too. I'll be interested in trying out the Raider-II soon.

The Raider titles are fantastic, being able to either lock down or force through damage on a particular squadron (like an opposing Rhymer). Take the titles if you can afford them, Ordnance Experts with black dice are just fantastic.

...and like I mentioned, Raiders move in the ship phase (I'm sure you all knew that :-P) so should be extra annoying for Rogue squadrons.

Might be you are doing the Squadron Commander favor by engaging his squadrons with a 4 Hull, 2 Shield, Non-Damage-Redirecting ship.

This ship is 'supposed' to mitigate squadrons with its silly Defense Token loadout: 2 x Evade, 1 x Brace.

I will be using it in 'unintended' roles until I can figure out how best to play it. For now its definitely not going to try to tie up any combination of Bomber and/or black dice squadrons.

/salute

...and like I mentioned, Raiders move in the ship phase (I'm sure you all knew that :-P) so should be extra annoying for Rogue squadrons.

Might be you are doing the Squadron Commander favor by engaging his squadrons with a 4 Hull, 2 Shield, Non-Damage-Redirecting ship.

This ship is 'supposed' to mitigate squadrons with its silly Defense Token loadout: 2 x Evade, 1 x Brace.

I will be using it in 'unintended' roles until I can figure out how best to play it. For now its definitely not going to try to tie up any combination of Bomber and/or black dice squadrons.

/salute

Engaging those squadrons on your own is suicide unless you're running into a blob of dedicated fighters who can only pelt you with blue dice spitballs on your way by. I agree with you that anyone who feels like the Instigator title is sufficient on its own is guilty of wishful thinking. When combined with other TIEs, however, it opens up some room to ensure you can proc Swarm while also pinning enemies in place regardless of Grit or Intel, where they can eat flak next turn.

Yeah people underestimate the Raider until they play in a game with one. It's not a powerhouse but you will be punished if you ignore it. The Raider-I with Expanded Launchers and Ordnance Experts packs a serious wallop and does just fine versus squadrons too. I'll be interested in trying out the Raider-II soon.

Short range + Vader + (Raider I + EL+ OE)N = I have you now!

That's math I can get behind.

(4 black, 2 blue, plus double rerolls* is something only someone who is as clumsy as he is stupid ignores)

Throw in a CF command + token and you have potentially 5 black + 2 blue or 4 black + 3 blue and a third single die reroll*.

That changes the equation to "= There will be no one to stop us this time!"

*of their concomitant values

...and like I mentioned, Raiders move in the ship phase (I'm sure you all knew that :-P) so should be extra annoying for Rogue squadrons.

Might be you are doing the Squadron Commander favor by engaging his squadrons with a 4 Hull, 2 Shield, Non-Damage-Redirecting ship.

This ship is 'supposed' to mitigate squadrons with its silly Defense Token loadout: 2 x Evade, 1 x Brace.

I will be using it in 'unintended' roles until I can figure out how best to play it. For now its definitely not going to try to tie up any combination of Bomber and/or black dice squadrons.

/salute

Raider I with OE + QLT + Impetuous is hardly anything to sneeze at.

Two black dice twice with rerolls plus a blue counter-attack can add up real quick if squadrons tangle with it. Throw in an Intel Officer and opposing named squadrons now have something new to worry about as it starts compromising their defense tokens.

I have you now!

"There will be no one to stop us this time!"

And Vader was wrong on both accounts.

I'm just goofing around. I can stand behind what you are throwing down mang. I'm just not a "Raider GGs Squadrons" guy.

There's a place for it in my lists for sure. It just won't be the "designed with intent" one.

Question about the instigator- Engaged Squadrons cannot attack ships. This means that the Instigator cannot be attacked by squadrons (Rhymerball exempted), correct? So, if the Instigator is in range 1 of my squadrons, the only thing they can do is attack other squadrons they're already engaged with? Or am I missing something?

EDIT: Okay, I found the relevant passage in the RRG.

... When a squadron attacks, it must attack an engaged squadron if possible rather than an enemy ship. ...

So, it looks like the Instigator does not stop squadrons from attacking ships by itself, because even though the squadron is considered to be engaged, it cannot attack an enemy squadron, and is thus free to attack ships. Is my reading here correct?

They can attack ships if there are no other squadrons around. they just have to attack squadrons 1st if able.

Debated to death in other posts...

The Rule is you must shoot Squadrons you are engaged with If Possible. This does not apply if the squadrons Engaging you are Heavy.

If there are no real squadrons, then you may shoot a Ship. Any ship in Range. The Raider does not engage so you are not forced to shoot at it.

Expect an FAQ to Clarify this when it is released, as it has been submitted at least 4 times to my knowledge alone.

Question about the instigator- Engaged Squadrons cannot attack ships. This means that the Instigator cannot be attacked by squadrons (Rhymerball exempted), correct? So, if the Instigator is in range 1 of my squadrons, the only thing they can do is attack other squadrons they're already engaged with? Or am I missing something?

EDIT: Okay, I found the relevant passage. The RRG on Engagement (Bolded parts by me)

While a squadron is at distance 1 of one or more enemy squadrons, it is engaged with all of those enemy squadrons.

An engaged squadron cannot move.

When a squadron attacks, it must attack an engaged squadron if possible rather than an enemy ship.

A squadron does not engage ships or friendly squadrons.

If line of sight between two squadrons is obstructed, those squadrons are not engaged even if at distance 1 of each other, though they can still attack each other.

A squadron is no longer engaged if the last squadron engaged with it is destroyed.

Squadrons do not engage other squadrons while moving even if a portion of the range ruler is at distance 1 of an enemy squadron. Only the starting and final positions matter for engagement

So, it looks like the Instigator does not stop squadrons from attacking ships, because even though the squadron is considered to be engaged, it cannot attack an enemy squadron, and is thus free to attack ships. Is my reading here correct?

They can attack the Instigator if there are no real squadrons around. You can't attack ships if there is an enemy squadron engaged. They must attack any real squadron they are engaged with.

Question about the instigator- Engaged Squadrons cannot attack ships. This means that the Instigator cannot be attacked by squadrons (Rhymerball exempted), correct? So, if the Instigator is in range 1 of my squadrons, the only thing they can do is attack other squadrons they're already engaged with? Or am I missing something?

EDIT: Okay, I found the relevant passage. The RRG on Engagement (Bolded parts by me)

While a squadron is at distance 1 of one or more enemy squadrons, it is engaged with all of those enemy squadrons.

An engaged squadron cannot move.

When a squadron attacks, it must attack an engaged squadron if possible rather than an enemy ship.

A squadron does not engage ships or friendly squadrons.

If line of sight between two squadrons is obstructed, those squadrons are not engaged even if at distance 1 of each other, though they can still attack each other.

A squadron is no longer engaged if the last squadron engaged with it is destroyed.

Squadrons do not engage other squadrons while moving even if a portion of the range ruler is at distance 1 of an enemy squadron. Only the starting and final positions matter for engagement

So, it looks like the Instigator does not stop squadrons from attacking ships, because even though the squadron is considered to be engaged, it cannot attack an enemy squadron, and is thus free to attack ships. Is my reading here correct?

They can attack the Instigator if there are no real squadrons around. You can't attack ships if there is an enemy squadron engaged. They must attack any real squadron they are engaged with.

Unless said other squadron is heavy.

Other than that, yep.