I would entertain the idea that they are alive for different types of discussions but in regards to this discussion (and this specific question) their lack of biological life makes them not alive.

However, that ignores the question of Shards and Holocrons, because neither are biological in nature, but both can (potentially) access the Force.

I would entertain the idea that they are alive for different types of discussions but in regards to this discussion (and this specific question) their lack of biological life makes them not alive.

However, that ignores the question of Shards and Holocrons, because neither are biological in nature, but both can (potentially) access the Force.

I don't really think they access the Force. Like a holocron can't Force slam someone. I think they are imbued with the Force. The setting has shown that you can imbue items with the Force. As such shards and holocrons seemed to be imbued with the Force and mimic the qualities of the Force that someone imbued it, but that they aren't on their own accessing the Force.

In otherwords .... I wouldn't give holocrons or shards a Force rating and the Morality traits. Please keep in mind that my answers are in regards to whether or not the object in question would have Morality as I assume that's the purpose of this discussion. There are a myriad array of different ways that objects can interact with the Force, and those are all worthy of discussion, but for the purposing of accessing the OP's overall question I wouldn't count holocrons and shards as being alive or capable of accessing the Force or having Morality. Could they do other things with the Force? Interact with the Force in different ways? Yeah. But that's a different conversation.

Unless the distinction is 'naturally occurring' and not 'alive' or 'inorganic'. Shards are naturally occurring silicon-based life forms. Droids and holocrons are not, as they were artificially fashioned.

Unless the distinction is 'naturally occurring' and not 'alive' or 'inorganic'. Shards are naturally occurring silicon-based life forms. Droids and holocrons are not, as they were artificially fashioned.

So, to throw a spanner in the works — what about Vuffi Raa ?

When droids become a race and they create other droids, at what point does that become naturally occurring or not?

They were created at one point, so even if they their AI has developed and they can build more of themselves, 'not naturally occurring' could still apply. And the SIlentium would be significantly older than any droid in the Galaxy; if they can use the Force somehow, no 'modern' droid will be able to do it for a long while. How long did it take the Vong to cross the void between galaxies? That long or longer.

It shouldn't take that much effort to think outside the box, guys.

Just because droids can't have a Force Rating doesn't mean they can't affect the Living Force. Every action a droid hero takes can impact living beings, which in turn can impact the Force. Killing, hurting, helping, reviving. Such a character, even though he cannot touch the Force directly, could create great disturbances in the Force simply by his actions.

EDIT: Also, Star Wars is not SG-1 or Star Trek. Vastly different paradigms and genres. It's bad enough that people are bringing Legends into the mix for "proofs" Let's not muddy the waters with completely unrelated universes.

(I love Legends, but it's Legends)

It shouldn't take that much effort to think outside the box, guys.

Just because droids can't have a Force Rating doesn't mean they can't affect the Living Force. Every action a droid hero takes can impact living beings, which in turn can impact the Force. Killing, hurting, helping, reviving. Such a character, even though he cannot touch the Force directly, could create great disturbances in the Force simply by his actions.

EDIT: Also, Star Wars is not SG-1 or Star Trek. Vastly different paradigms and genres. It's bad enough that people are bringing Legends into the mix for "proofs" Let's not muddy the waters with completely unrelated universes.

(I love Legends, but it's Legends)

I Agree.

I can see the Paragon and Dark Side Destiny Point mechanic having an effect with a Droid who does lots of good or bad things. the strain/wound effects seem less likely as The Force is not empowering them though. But for simplicity then let's say they do work.

Then I had an idea (others probably did too) to change the dice the Player rolls to a D6 or even D4 so that the issue of balance due to not gaining conflict through Dark Side use is overcome. Play Testing required.

This seems to be something to set up in a campaign based on the FaD system, not for an EotE or AoR game.

Why don't we just look at the book itself?

"Morality is, simply put, the measure of right and wrong. Though the Star Wars universe has shades of moral relativism, it is primarily a universe of good and evil. Morality measures how good or evil characters are. It is a measure of their actions, thoughts, and attitudes, and how they have helped, harmed, or hindered those around them. In addition, a character’s Morality can often be shaped and guided by his personality, and therefore a character’s emotional strengths and weaknesses can contribute to and affect his overall Morality. Most importantly, a character’s Morality affects his use of the Force, and the Force can in turn affect a character’s Morality. Thus in Force and Destiny, Morality is a character’s single most important defining characteristic. "

and

" Each Player Character in Force and Destiny has a Morality, a value that measures how “good” or “evil” that character is. This value changes over the course of a campaign, reflecting a character’s choices and actions as adventures progress. In addition, each character’s Morality includes an emotional strength and an emotional weakness that help define the character’s personality. These personality traits are key to the character’s Morality, as a character’s moral decisions may be greatly affected by them."

Just like Obligation and Duty, if you use Morality as the primary mechanic in your game, everyone has it and is treated equally. It doesn't matter if they use the force or not. Droids can be good, droids can be evil, non force users can be good, non force users can be evil, force users can be good, force users can be evil. Every PC has Morality and no one gets any special treatment mechanically. Yes, force users will have an easier time falling as they can gain conflict for force related actions, use of dark pips, etc, but outside of that it has nothing to do with the force.

As I brought up in an Edge topic, it's pretty much a carbon copy of the alignment mechanic from the KoTOR line. Everyone had a measure of how close to the light side and dark side they were as well, regardless of their level of force-sensitivity or level of "living."

It shouldn't take that much effort to think outside the box, guys.

Just because droids can't have a Force Rating doesn't mean they can't affect the Living Force. Every action a droid hero takes can impact living beings, which in turn can impact the Force. Killing, hurting, helping, reviving. Such a character, even though he cannot touch the Force directly, could create great disturbances in the Force simply by his actions.

Thank you. This is exactly What I'm getting at. Just because a droid cannot be Force-sensitive itself, doesn't mean the Force isn't affected by its actions.

What I'm wanting to do in my game, is track everyone's Morality. Force-sensitives are tracked normally; they will see overtly how their actions affect things. Those who are not Force-sensitive get tracked behind the scenes, as it were. I feel like their actions affect the Force in much smaller increments than regular Force-sensitives. Droids even more so.

But still, if a Non-Force-sensitive PC, including droids, do enough heinous things, their Morality may eventually dip below 30. When that happens, the PCs' starting Destiny Pool becomes affected. (But the Non-Force-sensitive's Strain or Wound Thresholds won't change like the Force-sensitive's will.

They were created at one point, so even if they their AI has developed and they can build more of themselves, 'not naturally occurring' could still apply.

So, clone troopers aren't alive? They were 'created', rather than being 'naturally occurring'.

So that would mean Boba Fett was never alive.

And then how do you classify the offspring of any clones? Are they also 'not naturally occurring' because their father wasn't 'alive'?

They were created at one point, so even if they their AI has developed and they can build more of themselves, 'not naturally occurring' could still apply.

So, clone troopers aren't alive? They were 'created', rather than being 'naturally occurring'.

So that would mean Boba Fett was never alive.

And then how do you classify the offspring of any clones? Are they also 'not naturally occurring' because their father wasn't 'alive'?

Depends on EU or canon. In the EU it depended on the method of cloning (the average Kaminoan clone would be 'no', but other methods would produce Force sensitives). The question is up for interpretation in canon.

I think the actual, canon answer to this is the one everybody hates: midichlorians. Droids don't have them, so they can't feel or use the Force. I guess clones would depend on the method of cloning, but any potential child of a midichlorian-less clone would have the possibility if the other parent has them.

As I brought up in an Edge topic, it's pretty much a carbon copy of the alignment mechanic from the KoTOR line. Everyone had a measure of how close to the light side and dark side they were as well, regardless of their level of force-sensitivity or level of "living."

One should be careful about this though, as "middling" scores were primarily thought of as the character being "gray" (that is, morally neutral ), while the rules in FaD stress that a character is essentially either good or bad ("bad" being defined as having fallen to the dark side by dropping below 30 Morality and, after having fallen, retaining a Morality score of 0-70).

In other words, there is no "gray."