I've decided I want all PCs to have a Morality track in my game. (Non-Force-Sensitives move up and down slower than Force-Sensitives. The amount their track moves after the Conflict roll is halved. Also, they don't have Emotional Strengths and Weaknesses, and their Morality is never triggered. Force-Sensitives follow the regular rules.)

But what if a player wants to create a droid character? Does it get a Morality track? I need to decide before I get a player wanting to run a droid character.

So I have to ask myself, how does The Force view the actions of droids? Is The Force affected by the actions of droids? Do evil or callous droids feed the Dark Side? Do heroic droids bolster the Light Side?

If The Force is unaffected by droids, it wouldn't care what droids do, and droids wouldn't earn Conflict Points, and there would be no need for a droid PC to have a Morality track even when all other PCs - even the non-Force-Sensitives - do.

What do you think?

A non-Jedi character doesn't care about falling to the dark side or being a paragon so I dont undertstand what you attempt to achieve by forcing everyone to have a morality score.

A non-Jedi character dont care about falling to the dark side or being a paragon so I dont undertstand what you attempt to achieve by forcing everyone to have a morality score.

Why not? Mechanically, what if one of them picks up a force rating later? Well it would be nice to have kept track of their dark or light impulses and be on the way to paragon(dark or light).

If one of my PCs decides to become Force-Sensitive later on, I will already have a Morality track for them that is more accurate to their past actions than simply 50.

And that's one of the points against tracking for droids since they'll never become Force-Sensitive.

Seem a waste of time and energy tracking something that never trigger and probably will never be use. I think it is pretty easy to see if someone is a murder hobbo or a paragon of virtue. If the character is like most people with his part of good and grey, then he can start at 50. This is of course my opinion. You are free to do what you want.

As for the droid question, I think you answer your own question in the last comment.

I wasn't asking if it's a good idea or a waste of time to track Conflict and Morality for PCs that aren't Force-Sensitive yet. But I do thank you for giving me permission to do what I want in my game.

My question is actually, how does The Force view the actions of droids? Is The Force affected by the actions of droids? Does a killer like IG-88 feed the Dark Side, and does a heroic droid like R2-D2 bolster the Light Side?

It's a very subjective topic, sure. But hearing other constructive opinions and ideas on it can help me decide whether or not to track Morality and Conflict for PC droids. There are points for and against doing that.

Let face it. If nobody posted it is probably because like me they find your question silly But you're right I ddidnt answer your question: Can a droid have a morality track?

I would say no because I tend to see the rule of morality in FaD as only applying to force sensitives and since droids cannot be force sensitives in that system...

Plus in the Lore, it said that the force doesnt flow through complete mechanical being and droids cannot interact with the Force since they lack living cells and midichlorians to do so.

Now does the force is affected by droids actions? This is a good question but I dont think we could find a consciensus even if we discuss it during 8 pages. At the end, it's your choice.

Do droids affect or feel the Force? Probably not.

Can they be affected by it? Possibly. If the Force can affect physical locations and items, then it can probably affect a droid. A dark side nexus could probably warp a droid in some way, although they probably wouldn't realize. Seeing as mass murder can also leave a wound in the Force, the actions of a droid might leave such an impression.

I would say no, since they are not alive.

Well, we've already determined droids can have emotions. They feel fear. They can be bliss and content. They feel nervousness. And anger. We know the Force, light and dark, is drawn to and affected by emotions. We also know droids can't ever be Force sensitive. Droids have owners, and their actions can make their owners emotional. Owners are responsible for droid actions.

Using your thought that the movement on the Morality scale for non-Force sensitives is halved, perhaps the movement for droids is quartered. It makes their movement even more granular as the Force "cares" even less about them than it does about non-Force users. However, it is still affected by them.

Also, the Force feeds off of the beings the droids come into contact with. The dark side must love IG-88! People suffer when he's around. His targets fail Fear checks. If a PC droid tortures and murders an Imperial goon, and the other PCs know it is going on and do nothing to stop it, they are generating some Conflict points for themselves.

So absolutely I think the Force is affected by droids, even if it won't allow "their kind" to become Force-sensitive.

Isn't the point of the Morality system to show the effects the Force has on players due to their actions, through their connection to the force. But Droids don't have and can't have a connection to the Force, hence they are not personally affected by the Force due totheir own actions. The Force can't manipulate their thoughts and feelings.

Sure their actions have an effect on the force, IG-88 has feed the Dark Side plenty, but it has no effect on him in an emotional way. It isn't corrupting him, he just is as he is mechanical. An ancient Droid stuck in a Sith Temple could have mysterious effects on its surroundings, but they still don't use the Force.

You could have the droid character use the Morality mechanic and use it to help guide the actions of your force users. If the droid is getting too much conflict then they may have to step in, or if he is generation lots of light side points he is a beacon of virtue they would do well to emulate. It holds a nice RP aspect.

I would say no, since they are not alive.

Define "Not alive" please.

jimjams79, on 17 Nov 2015 - 2:25 PM, said:

Kael, on 12 Nov 2015 - 11:11 PM, said:

I would say no, since they are not alive.

Define "Not alive" please.

I hope you are not serious with that question.

jimjams79, on 17 Nov 2015 - 2:25 PM, said:

Kael, on 12 Nov 2015 - 11:11 PM, said:

I would say no, since they are not alive.

Define "Not alive" please.

I hope you are not serious with that question.

Define "Alive". There is a fantastic episode of Star Trek Next Generation that deals with the presumption that because something has been artificially created then it cannot be "Alive". Artificial lifeforms such as Droids have sentience, feel emotions such as fear, can procreate, need fuel to live.

two words: living cells.

That what differanciate C3PO from Darth Vader or you and me. I am also curious about your exemple of Droid that can procreate.

two words: living cells.

That what differanciate C3PO from Darth Vader or you and me. I am also curious about your exemple of Droid that can procreate.

So you're saying only lifeforms that are biological in nature can be classed as alive?

I think it encompass the definition of "alive". A machine is not alive just because you gave it a cybernetic brain.

Star Wars treats their AIs and androids a little more casually than Star Trek does. Pretty consistently, droids are often regarded as (and act like) property and utilities, and not generally regarded as 'alive'; it's just the vast majority of droid characters the audience sees are the unusual outstanding specimens.

Star Wars treats their AIs and androids a little more casually than Star Trek does. Pretty consistently, droids are often regarded as (and act like) property and utilities, and not generally regarded as 'alive'; it's just the vast majority of droid characters the audience sees are the unusual outstanding specimens.

The Order 66 podcast has had a few discussions on this topic, both under the FFG system and Saga Edition.

As you said, in Star Trek a self-aware automaton (such as Data and Lore) are generally seen as a rare and unusual thing, where Star Wars has self-aware automatons that are held as being so commonplace that they're background elements. Heck, droids in Star Wars are viewed as property by the general galactic populace, with anyone that forms a deep friendship with a droid being seen as a bit odd, much as how in our world a person that becomes overly friendly (and I mean that in a platonic way!) with their refrigerator or their car would be seen as a bit odd by the general populace.

In Star Trek, an astromech droid such as the R2-series or a protocol droid like the 3PO-series would probably be seen as a wondrous creation, but in Star Wars they're just droids and in many cases not given a second thought under most circumstances. Yeah, an snubjock might be awfully thankful for their astromech when the little guy pulls their bacon out of the fire during a terse starship battle, but only rare cases like Luke form any sort of deep attachment with the droid.

jimjams79, on 17 Nov 2015 - 2:25 PM, said:

Kael, on 12 Nov 2015 - 11:11 PM, said:

I would say no, since they are not alive.

Define "Not alive" please.

I hope you are not serious with that question.

Define "Alive". There is a fantastic episode of Star Trek Next Generation that deals with the presumption that because something has been artificially created then it cannot be "Alive". Artificial lifeforms such as Droids have sentience, feel emotions such as fear, can procreate, need fuel to live.

The Measure of a Man. One of my favorite episodes.

two words: living cells.

That what differanciate C3PO from Darth Vader or you and me. I am also curious about your exemple of Droid that can procreate.

In Stargate SG-1 the Replicators procreated like mad.

In Star Trek Data created Lal, whom he referred to as his daughter.

In Star Wars Legends material didn't IG-88 create multiple copies of himself? That could be viewed as a form of procreation.

I would say no, since they are not alive.

Define "Not alive" please.

Does it have biological cells?

Or more importantly for this discussion, could it have midichlorians? Droids, by lacking living biological cells, won't posses midichlorians. Hence for the purpose of a discussion on the Force and whether they have a Morality (as defined for the purpose of this game) I do not consider droids to be alive. I consider them no more alive than I would consider an X Wing alive or a computer alive.

Or more importantly for this discussion, could it have midichlorians? Droids, by lacking living biological cells, won't posses midichlorians. Hence for the purpose of a discussion on the Force and whether they have a Morality (as defined for the purpose of this game) I do not consider droids to be alive. I consider them no more alive than I would consider an X Wing alive or a computer alive.

If access to the Force is the one deciding factor for being “alive”, does that mean that Holocrons are alive?

What about Shards? Or other intelligent crystals?

Is being organic a requirement? What about AI?

Or more importantly for this discussion, could it have midichlorians? Droids, by lacking living biological cells, won't posses midichlorians. Hence for the purpose of a discussion on the Force and whether they have a Morality (as defined for the purpose of this game) I do not consider droids to be alive. I consider them no more alive than I would consider an X Wing alive or a computer alive.

If access to the Force is the one deciding factor for being “alive”, does that mean that Holocrons are alive?

What about Shards? Or other intelligent crystals?

Is being organic a requirement? What about AI?

As I said, for the purpose of determining if a character has the Morality trait or access to the Force them being biologically alive is what matters. That isn't to say you can't tackle the bigger metaphysical question on whether or not droids count as sentient life. But that question is moot when asking about the Force. I consider the possibility for them being alive (and thus have Morality or access to the Force) and for them to be considered sentient beings as two separate discussions and two separate considerations.

I would entertain the idea that they are alive for different types of discussions but in regards to this discussion (and this specific question) their lack of biological life makes them not alive.