Thankyou Squirrelsan.

Personally, from your examples, my perception of the Stormtroopers in ANH is that they are there searching for the droids. On a regular day, they might not be present on the planet, or if they are, they might not be 'policing the streets'

IN RotJ, I would say "of course you have your best, guarding the only defence of the second battlestation that can destroy a planet.

The films show the heros, doing the hardest things, so of course, meet the hardest resistance.

The have always been known as the "Elite" and a "Branch of the Imperial Army" so personally, I would see them as the Royal Marines, or Navy Seals, or similar, compared to "Regular" infantry, made of those unable to make the cut into the Officer Corps, and not quite strong enough (mentally or physically), so make it as a Stormtrooper.

First link does not work for me.

I think I've found as much detail as I need for the Army and Stormtrooper corps, but im now looking for information on how TIE squadrons are organised.

WEG only talks about Capitol ships.

There are many options, but a classic 100 point TIE swarm could contain Howlrunner with Squad Leader and 6 Obsidian Squadron Pilots. That also gives a 2 point initiative bid (98 points)

I totally agree with you, Dave, and your supporters. There should be something as an Imperial Army. They might only be deployed as garrison troops, so they wouldn't be seen in any theatre of war or place pf high strategic import and thus not be featured in the films.

But, more importantly, my main pseudohistorical reasoning is as follows: The Stormtrooper corps is definitely the successor of the original Clone Trooper army, which was initially bred for the sole purpose of the Clone Wars; everbody will agree on that I presume. There must always have been some sort of rump defensive forces of the Republic, how small and inedequate they might have been, before the Clone Wars. You can see/read of them in various, non-canonical I admit, sources, e.g. SWTOR. And, there have always been planetary and sectorial armed forces, canonical at least in the Tarkin novel, which would have been pooled into a centralised army under a dictatorship like the Empire, at least for the systems under their direct official control, i.e. nearly all the Core Worlds and most of the Colonies. I tend to subsume these 2nd rate forces under the name Imperial Army.

I said there is no imperial army trooper - everything in canon seems to agree with that.

Except...nothing at all in canon agrees with that. Anywhere.

There's literally a Wikipedia entry for "Imperial Army trooper".

Stormtroopers are the infantry. Ezra from Rebels was training to be a stormtrooper. I do agree that there are vehicle crews. But every current canon, that i am aware of, makes Stormtroopers the infantry. Officers have a seperate academy. Lost Stars shows us that.

Stormtroopers are infantry, but they are not the *only* infantry. For a rough real world analogue (and I believe the original inspiration that gave rise to the stormtroopers as the elite shock troops but also allowing for a regular army), take a look at the German wehrmacht, with the "regular army" of the heer fighting alongside divisions of waffen-SS. Similar to this example, where the army regulars were just that and the SS were fanatically loyal to their leader and a direct extension of his will and ideologies, so too are the stormtroopers a more direct instrument of the will of the emperor, whereas the regular army is a more generalized fighting force. The two often work in concert with one another, but the stormtrooper legions are culturally and organizationally distinct from the regulars.

With regard to the example in Rebels...that in no way supports your view or contradicts the established lore that provides for the existence of the regular imperial army trooper.

General Veers is interesting, as seberal of the generals we see are just given those titles. General Solo, General Calrissian, Generals Skywalker and Kenobi from the clone wars. General seems to be a title given to officers (or jedi) who are strategists - planning assaults.

While I'd tend to agree that in general, Star Wars makes a hash of rank structure, you must note that all of your examples aside from Veers are members of a totally different military. Solo, Calrissian, and Skywalker are rebels, and Kenobi served in conjunction with the Republic military (though it is worth noting here that all Jedi that directed troops were referred to as generals even though they were separate and not part of the military). While some titles are generally given based on role (for instance, Jerjerrod's rank of "Commander" while in charge of the DS2 construction), there's no indication that General Veers' rank is anything less than a formal military rank as part of a formal military.

I Think so much of this contention is people who are applying real world ranks and military structure to the galaxy far far away. It doesn't necessarily apply.

Completely agreed.

Let me put this way: there IS an imperial army - these consist of vehicle crews, officers, and the infantry or stormtroopers as they are called.

You're certainly entitled to entertain any view you wish, but for the sake of others in the discussion, it's worth noting that the established lore provides for a standing regular army, with the various units of stormtroopers often serving alongside...but not the actual infantry component of the Imperial army. This is consistently upheld in every reference where such a matter is addressed, and if you're calling something like that into question, there's even less supporting evidence for things like the distinction between Imperial Intelligence and ISB, or the existence of the Victory-class star destroyer. Simply put, if you choose not to accept it, that's your decision...but it goes sharply against any source that touches on the area.

I said there is no imperial army trooper - everything in canon seems to agree with that.

Stormtroopers are the infantry. Ezra from Rebels was training to be a stormtrooper. I do agree that there are vehicle crews. But every current canon, that i am aware of, makes Stormtroopers the infantry. Officers have a seperate academy. Lost Stars shows us that.

General Veers is interesting, as seberal of the generals we see are just given those titles. General Solo, General Calrissian, Generals Skywalker and Kenobi from the clone wars. General seems to be a title given to officers (or jedi) who are strategists - planning assaults.

I Think so much of this contention is people who are applying real world ranks and military structure to the galaxy far far away. It doesn't necessarily apply.

Let me put this way: there IS an imperial army - these consist of vehicle crews, officers, and the infantry or stormtroopers as they are called.

I suspect that the imperial academies sort out applicants based on initial test scores - the best go to become officers, those with piloting talents become vehicle crews, the rest become stormtroopers.

Most of the imperial military seema to be focused on the atarships and crews.

What are these guys then?

https://www.google.com/search?q=endor+base+military&es_sm=93&tbm=isch&imgil=Om4PerZhKo-o-M%253A%253BcVd23cl43XwSjM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.starwars.com%25252Fnews%25252Fthe-imperial-warlords-despoilers-of-an-empire-part-1&source=iu&pf=m&fir=Om4PerZhKo-o-M%253A%252CcVd23cl43XwSjM%252C_&biw=1280&bih=613&usg=__Z6IQSBleraQATyiZhz2LzC5yu6I%3D&ved=0CCkQyjdqFQoTCMSBldW-jMkCFQnMYwodjoYCFg&ei=SF1FVsS9JYmYjwOOjYqwAQ#tbm=isch&q=endor+base+army+troopers&imgdii=D0CHUYbuyFTHqM%3A%3BD0CHUYbuyFTHqM%3A%3BMw18VShJKvJM4M%3A&imgrc=D0CHUYbuyFTHqM%3A

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/d/d1/RetwinWatchesVader-ESB.png/revision/latest?cb=20151004003737

You mean these guys on the bridge of the Executor?

So a navy ships bridge is guarded by the army?

Those guys are Imperial Navy Troopers . They are alike the Marines, but they don’t fight for right and freedom.

Do we really have to have this discussion everytime someone mentions something non-canon and Imperial Army troopers in particular? The OP has already espressed an interest to use them, what is the point of discussing whether they exist or not?

Or check the old West End Games Imperial Sourcebook. It had both ground and space force organizations.

Yeah thje stuff in these books is crazy. Fully detailed out.

After reading all of this, Jem'Hadar numbering ranks suddenly make a lot more sense.

Snickett, I love your sig.

One of my players/friend is facinated with Sarween Tools. For his birthday, we got him a blank Star Wars cake, we ended up putting "Sarween Tools" on the cake instead of happy birthday. I have a photo somewhere..

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/d/d1/RetwinWatchesVader-ESB.png/revision/latest?cb=20151004003737

You mean these guys on the bridge of the Executor?

So a navy ships bridge is guarded by the army?

so the navy was operating on the ground? ....As my shot is of the bunker..

First link does not work for me.

I think I've found as much detail as I need for the Army and Stormtrooper corps, but im now looking for information on how TIE squadrons are organised.

WEG only talks about Capitol ships.

According to the Imperial Handbook, standard TIE squadrons consist of 12 ships in 3 flights. Each flight consists of 2 elements of 2 ships. They based this on the German Luftwaffe's organization, which also was used for the organization of the majority of the world's air forces to this day.

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/d/d1/RetwinWatchesVader-ESB.png/revision/latest?cb=20151004003737

You mean these guys on the bridge of the Executor?

So a navy ships bridge is guarded by the army?

so the navy was operating on the ground? ....As my shot is of the bunker..

So.. That must mean that those particular troop type would not be a navy trooper or army trooper. Perhaps ISB trooper would be appropriate - Agent Kallus did wear a helmet. While not the same design, it is slightly reminiscent.

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/d/d1/RetwinWatchesVader-ESB.png/revision/latest?cb=20151004003737

You mean these guys on the bridge of the Executor?

So a navy ships bridge is guarded by the army?

so the navy was operating on the ground? ....As my shot is of the bunker..

So.. That must mean that those particular troop type would not be a navy trooper or army trooper. Perhaps ISB trooper would be appropriate - Agent Kallus did wear a helmet. While not the same design, it is slightly reminiscent.

Yes, maybe. I think either they are ISB (or similar) or the Navy Troopers were on the Endor Base because it is a Navy Base. On modern Earth Navy bases don't have Army soldiers guarding them, and that base is for projecting a shield over a Navy project.

A little real world comparison on uniforms.

In the Army, when I served over 20 years ago, we had five different levels of uniform. The lowest level would be the garrison work uniform. That would be camouflage fatigues with a billed hat. The field uniform would replace the hat with a helmet and add load bearing gear and a flack vest. Not to mention weapons and such based on the mission. The next level would be the equivalent of a business suit referred to as dress greens. This could be slacks and button down shirt with a tie or it could be stepped up a level with the addition of a suit jacket. Then at the highest level were dress blues. The equivalent of a tuxedo. Blue jacket and slacks with a white button down shirt and a tie. Worn for serious ceremonial events. We wore them for burials at the National Cemetery. Now that's the Army.... The Navy was worse. My buddy in the Air Force had about the same but no dress blues. Not sure about the Marines, never knew any active duty ones.

Now, how does that apply to the game?

Wait a minute... I had a point around here somewhere....

Ah, yes.

Whose to say the Imperial Forces aren't even worse than the US Navy for uniforms. The Stormtrooper armor could simply be the uniform worn when making an impression is important. The helmet hides the identity, much like SWAT cops wear the baklava to hide their identities making them more terrifying. Guard duty, patrolling in public, assaults on rebel bases and ships are all times when a trooper would want to wear the armor. Performing repairs, driving vehicles or dozens of other menial tasks too boring to mention would call for a different level of uniform. Imagine cleaning the head in that heavy armor. Not a fun concept. Add in the various allied systems that contribute troops to the Empire. To maintain a consistency of gear they are probably issued stormtrooper armor for those times when it's needed.

So the guy you see in one scene working on a power conduit could be in stormtrooper armor later during an assault. When looking at a military from outside the uniforms can be very confusing. Why would the Empire be any different?

First to the OP. For a great book that includes Imperial military organization see the Star Wars Essential Guide to Warfare book if you want something newer then WEG.

There are good arguments for and against the existance of an Army Trooper. I once argued for, now I'm against. In the end, use whatever you wish and stick with the arguments that support your side. I wasn't going to get into the Army Trooper existance discussion once again, but noted MrMxy's note on using varying types of uniforms to answer this question.

Looking at every single uniform seen in Episodes IV-VI believe it or not gave me some clarity. See " Imperial Uniforms " in my signature.

.......SWAT cops wear the baklava to hide their identities making them more terrifying.

They do? Typically worn due to the material they are made of - warmth when it is cold or to prevent slight burns from the various munitions that could get tossed. Or I could be wrong so I should stop wearing mine when scooping snow since I might be "terrifying" the neighbors? To be fair some probably do wear them to cloak their identity when they must enter a residence of unpleasant people. But, it's not to be "more terrifying".

I do like BAKLAVA myself, though I can't have more than one for coffee. They're just too sweet! I haven't tried hiding behind one, though.

A little real world comparison on uniforms.

In the Army, when I served over 20 years ago, we had five different levels of uniform. The lowest level would be the garrison work uniform. That would be camouflage fatigues with a billed hat. The field uniform would replace the hat with a helmet and add load bearing gear and a flack vest. Not to mention weapons and such based on the mission. The next level would be the equivalent of a business suit referred to as dress greens. This could be slacks and button down shirt with a tie or it could be stepped up a level with the addition of a suit jacket. Then at the highest level were dress blues. The equivalent of a tuxedo. Blue jacket and slacks with a white button down shirt and a tie. Worn for serious ceremonial events. We wore them for burials at the National Cemetery. Now that's the Army.... The Navy was worse. My buddy in the Air Force had about the same but no dress blues. Not sure about the Marines, never knew any active duty ones.

Now, how does that apply to the game?

Wait a minute... I had a point around here somewhere....

Ah, yes.

Whose to say the Imperial Forces aren't even worse than the US Navy for uniforms. The Stormtrooper armor could simply be the uniform worn when making an impression is important. The helmet hides the identity, much like SWAT cops wear the baklava to hide their identities making them more terrifying. Guard duty, patrolling in public, assaults on rebel bases and ships are all times when a trooper would want to wear the armor. Performing repairs, driving vehicles or dozens of other menial tasks too boring to mention would call for a different level of uniform. Imagine cleaning the head in that heavy armor. Not a fun concept. Add in the various allied systems that contribute troops to the Empire. To maintain a consistency of gear they are probably issued stormtrooper armor for those times when it's needed.

So the guy you see in one scene working on a power conduit could be in stormtrooper armor later during an assault. When looking at a military from outside the uniforms can be very confusing. Why would the Empire be any different?

Its a balaclava. Not a pastry

A little real world comparison on uniforms.

Now that's the Army.... The Navy was worse.

Whose to say the Imperial Forces aren't even worse than the US Navy for uniforms.

A small exception should you give people the wrong idea.

Navy uniforms are more cultured than the rest. Never worse.

A little real world comparison on uniforms.

Now that's the Army.... The Navy was worse.

Whose to say the Imperial Forces aren't even worse than the US Navy for uniforms.

A small exception should you give people the wrong idea.

Navy uniforms are more cultured than the rest. Never worse.

Is that like a bacterial culture?

.......SWAT cops wear the baklava to hide their identities making them more terrifying.

They do? Typically worn due to the material they are made of - warmth when it is cold or to prevent slight burns from the various munitions that could get tossed. Or I could be wrong so I should stop wearing mine when scooping snow since I might be "terrifying" the neighbors? To be fair some probably do wear them to cloak their identity when they must enter a residence of unpleasant people. But, it's not to be "more terrifying".

I suppose it depends on which side of the balaclava you wind up on. I'd argue plenty of studies out there about how humans respond to things with faces and things without but it's probably not worth it for a comment I tossed in for color.

Its a balaclava. Not a pastry

Spell checker got the better of me. Didn't look back since I didn't think it was going to be an issue.

Is that like a bacterial culture?

Must be. I always thought the varied number of uniforms the navy guys had meant the Village People were right.

Is that like a bacterial culture?

Must be. I always thought the varied number of uniforms the navy guys had meant the Village People were right.

LoL We had four when I was in the Navy.

Dungarees, which were worn at work. Those were the bell bottom blue jeans with the light blue shirt. Typically, you wouldn't leave the base with those on.

Summer whites, which was a working uniform you could leave the base wearing. This was the white slacks with the white shirt.

Dress whites. These were the all white uniform with the flappy on the back, and the rolled up black neckerchief. This was like an inspection uniform or occasions like graduating from your school and such.

And dress blues. This was the course, thick, black uniform with the flappy on the back and the rolled up neckerchief and the thirteen buttons on the front of the pants. This was for very special occasions and such.

.......SWAT cops wear the baklava to hide their identities making them more terrifying.

They do? Typically worn due to the material they are made of - warmth when it is cold or to prevent slight burns from the various munitions that could get tossed. Or I could be wrong so I should stop wearing mine when scooping snow since I might be "terrifying" the neighbors? To be fair some probably do wear them to cloak their identity when they must enter a residence of unpleasant people. But, it's not to be "more terrifying".

I suppose it depends on which side of the balaclava you wind up on. I'd argue plenty of studies out there about how humans respond to things with faces and things without but it's probably not worth it for a comment I tossed in for color.

You first said SWAT cops wear them to hide their identities as if their intended purpose was to terrify, comparing to faceless Stormtroopers. You then changed the goal posts to how they could be perceived as scary. I actually agree with that. That wasn't what you first said. I added my post since I'm one of those people that dress that way sometimes and it has nothing at all to do with wanting to terrify people. I put in a and even some humor in my response trying to keep it light hearted while simply specifying the real reasons behind wearing a balaclava since false rumors can and do cause problems in my career.

OP here's a link for the WEG Imperial Sourcebook in PDF: http://d6holocron.com/downloads/books/WEG40092.pdf

Page 82+ may have what you want.

Is that like a bacterial culture?

Must be. I always thought the varied number of uniforms the navy guys had meant the Village People were right.

LoL We had four when I was in the Navy.

Dungarees, which were worn at work. Those were the bell bottom blue jeans with the light blue shirt. Typically, you wouldn't leave the base with those on.

Summer whites, which was a working uniform you could leave the base wearing. This was the white slacks with the white shirt.

Dress whites. These were the all white uniform with the flappy on the back, and the rolled up black neckerchief. This was like an inspection uniform or occasions like graduating from your school and such.

And dress blues. This was the course, thick, black uniform with the flappy on the back and the rolled up neckerchief and the thirteen buttons on the front of the pants. This was for very special occasions and such.

Funny, watching the Navy guys come into the mess hall (weird situation, in DC the bases were all so close we had one mess hall so we Army grunts got to eat what Navy officers got) it seemed like they had a dozen different uniforms to chose from. But then I suppose uniforms look funny to anyone on the outside.