The title card itself can't be changed at this point ...

But if the rules are changed in a way that you get only half the points for the 666 as long as the Pup buzzes around - this would be interesting to use it in competitive play

Yeah, that'd make sense: the ship is exploding but you still have time to remove a complete heavy laser cannon, including power supply and mount it ona different ship. .

I knew somebody would argue with this.

And the award goes to Dago!

The Nashta Pup is a heavily modified Z-95. Why shouldn't Bossk have the weapon systems enhanced as well? Just imagine that Bossk has installed similar cannons to the Pup.

You are going to need optimized lists for competitive play.

And my opponent wasn't frustrated at all. "Wow a naked Z, now I'm scared!"

He told me that its so not worth it. And he was true.

But I havn't used Latts and Xizor in my games.

If you could rescue some of the upgrade cards into the Z, like a crew card (it was mentioned that the Nashta Pup had a passenger seat) or even a cannon upgrade -

this would be awesome.

Well, If you kept your EPT, Modification, Missile and Crew cards

(Crewman jumps in, and the rest of items count as being equipped because the pilot loves them and installed it everywhere!)

It could be worth it.

Razzil with huge trollface jumping out of the exploding 666 with Weapon Engineer...

Exactly

If you could 'rescue' one upgrade card of each type ... this would be worth the 'insurance' you pay with 6 points.

I'd just imagined Bossk with Hounds' Tooth, Predator and a Mangler Cannon gets destroyed from behind ... Bossk escapes the burning wreck in the Nashta Pup, finally able to k-turn and wrecking havoc with the mangler + Predator....

There seems to be an assumption about the nashtah pup, "late game".

This, is where I think you can leverage the title. Shift that to early - early mid game. That Z is going to be ignored earlier, so it needs to arrive early on. Where it can have a greater effect on the game. We need to keep it fairly cheap. And we need to fly the tooth, really aggressively.

Consider,

Trandoshan slaver

Hounds tooth

Feedback array

Anti pursuit lasers

Xs23 thread tracers

Cartel marauder x 3 (or 60 points of fun)

You have 4 3 attack ships, your biggest base can zap fel/jax... It can cause damage on a block, and you can give your wingmen target locks once. Fly it in fast in the lead, trail the marauders. The goal is to get the leviathan to die first - if it does, you gain a z95 with good position to interfere while they go after your marauders. The earlier appearance - the greater the effect.

If, they don't take the bait, you can slowly off yourself with unstoppable damage, or just have good attacks from an ignored 3 die ship. Same effect with latts razzi w title, though she comes to 41 with the feedback array option. I think there's competitive power to the title, it just needs to be leveraged before you're at the end of the mid game.

The title card itself can't be changed at this point ...

But if the rules are changed in a way that you get only half the points for the 666 as long as the Pup buzzes around - this would be interesting to use it in competitive play

Yeah, that'd make sense: the ship is exploding but you still have time to remove a complete heavy laser cannon, including power supply and mount it ona different ship. .

I knew somebody would argue with this.

And the award goes to Dago!

The Nashta Pup is a heavily modified Z-95. Why shouldn't Bossk have the weapon systems enhanced as well? Just imagine that Bossk has installed similar cannons to the Pup.

Well, they nerfed the Cloak card. So it CAN be changed)

I see no reason whatsoever why a pilot shouldn't keep an Elite Talent they've paid for while flying the Nashtah Pup. And a single crew slot sounds like fun and makes thematic sense as well.

Hey ho.

There seems to be an assumption about the nashtah pup, "late game".

This, is where I think you can leverage the title. Shift that to early - early mid game. That Z is going to be ignored earlier, so it needs to arrive early on. Where it can have a greater effect on the game. We need to keep it fairly cheap. And we need to fly the tooth, really aggressively.

Consider,

Trandoshan slaver

Hounds tooth

Feedback array

Anti pursuit lasers

Xs23 thread tracers

Cartel marauder x 3 (or 60 points of fun)

You have 4 3 attack ships, your biggest base can zap fel/jax... It can cause damage on a block, and you can give your wingmen target locks once. Fly it in fast in the lead, trail the marauders. The goal is to get the leviathan to die first - if it does, you gain a z95 with good position to interfere while they go after your marauders. The earlier appearance - the greater the effect.

If, they don't take the bait, you can slowly off yourself with unstoppable damage, or just have good attacks from an ignored 3 die ship. Same effect with latts razzi w title, though she comes to 41 with the feedback array option. I think there's competitive power to the title, it just needs to be leveraged before you're at the end of the mid game.

I like the idea behind it. But you still only get a naked Z in return.

To be honest in this case I'd dispose of the title and get the Marauders their Glitterstims

There seems to be an assumption about the nashtah pup, "late game".

This, is where I think you can leverage the title. Shift that to early - early mid game. That Z is going to be ignored earlier, so it needs to arrive early on. Where it can have a greater effect on the game. We need to keep it fairly cheap. And we need to fly the tooth, really aggressively.

Consider,

Trandoshan slaver

Hounds tooth

Feedback array

Anti pursuit lasers

Xs23 thread tracers

Cartel marauder x 3 (or 60 points of fun)

You have 4 3 attack ships, your biggest base can zap fel/jax... It can cause damage on a block, and you can give your wingmen target locks once. Fly it in fast in the lead, trail the marauders. The goal is to get the leviathan to die first - if it does, you gain a z95 with good position to interfere while they go after your marauders. The earlier appearance - the greater the effect.

If, they don't take the bait, you can slowly off yourself with unstoppable damage, or just have good attacks from an ignored 3 die ship. Same effect with latts razzi w title, though she comes to 41 with the feedback array option. I think there's competitive power to the title, it just needs to be leveraged before you're at the end of the mid game.

I like the idea behind it. But you still only get a naked Z in return.

To be honest in this case I'd dispose of the title and get the Marauders their Glitterstims

Well, IF they let you keep all the cards you had,

Like

Bossk+Daredevil+OutlawTech+Tactician+K4+EngineUpgrade+ClusterMissiles+Glitterstims

spawning

Nashtan Troll +Daredevil+Outlawtech+EngineUpgrade+Clustermissiles+Glitterstims

sounds good to me. That might be useful, with Razzi+WEngineer...

But Eval for example is 0% use of Pup, and Bossk's chance of crit are...slim...

Yeah! They should let you have a 30 point Z for 6 points!

Yeah! They should let you have a 30 point Z for 6 points!

hell, you bought all the cards xD

And you don't start the game with it)

Yeah! They should let you have a 30 point Z for 6 points!

hell, you bought all the cards xD

And you don't start the game with it)

Yeas - you would just extend the live of most of the upgrade cards with the Z and maybe some kombinations would even be more effective with the Z.

I really like it.

Well, IF they let you keep all the cards you had,

Like

Bossk+Daredevil+OutlawTech+Tactician+K4+EngineUpgrade+ClusterMissiles+Glitterstims

spawning

Nashtan Troll +Daredevil+Outlawtech+EngineUpgrade+Clustermissiles+Glitterstims

So the Jawa wins the fist fight against the Tactician for the rescue seat ^^

Imagine the fight between Bossk (crew) and the Wookie gunner ... who is going to win this?

Well, IF they let you keep all the cards you had,

Like

Bossk+Daredevil+OutlawTech+Tactician+K4+EngineUpgrade+ClusterMissiles+Glitterstims

spawning

Nashtan Troll +Daredevil+Outlawtech+EngineUpgrade+Clustermissiles+Glitterstims

So the Jawa wins the fist fight against the Tactician for the rescue seat ^^

Imagine the fight between Bossk (crew) and the Wookie gunner ... who is going to win this?

Our local meta still plays with old Daredevil wording so yeah, Jawa Wins.

Flawless victory!

What was the old Daredevil wording again?

EDIT: ... oh yes ... nevermind.

I like the idea behind it. But you still only get a naked Z in return.

To be honest in this case I'd dispose of the title and get the Marauders their Glitterstims

Don't knock 5-6 turns of naked z. That's 10-18 dice of attack (range 1, and if you can keep on target.) with focus, you're looking at up to 13.5 expected hits on average dice. That's quite possibly more damage output than those 3 glitterstims are likely to contribute. Not counting the benefits of an extra ship for blocking/drawing fire and the targeting choice forced on the opponent.

That's the thing though, if that naked z gets only a couple of rounds, and is not free to fly aggressively, (say as the last ship) the value you get out of it drops considerably. We generally accept a 12 point bandit as an efficient ship and good buy with filler, (with some MoV caveats).

So why isn't the tooth's 6 point z worth it? What I am hearing is that it is because it is often too little too late, a six point handicap until it comes into play, without much choice when it comes into play at all. But that's only if you let it be so. Damage now is better than damage later - the 12 point z is there to work from the opening, its value decreases with time, so we need to deploy Nashtah before it's worth less than 6 points.

What I propose is that the hounds tooth and regular YV-666 must be flown in a different manner (and thus built in a different manner) if we want to play the ship competitively. As a six point break in case my investment dies escape craft- it's not worth it, but as a six point extra fighter in the furball, it's fine.

I like the idea behind it. But you still only get a naked Z in return.

To be honest in this case I'd dispose of the title and get the Marauders their Glitterstims

Don't knock 5-6 turns of naked z. That's 10-18 dice of attack (range 1, and if you can keep on target.) with focus, you're looking at up to 13.5 expected hits on average dice. That's quite possibly more damage output than those 3 glitterstims are likely to contribute. Not counting the benefits of an extra ship for blocking/drawing fire and the targeting choice forced on the opponent.

That's the thing though, if that naked z gets only a couple of rounds, and is not free to fly aggressively, (say as the last ship) the value you get out of it drops considerably. We generally accept a 12 point bandit as an efficient ship and good buy with filler, (with some MoV caveats).

So why isn't the tooth's 6 point z worth it? What I am hearing is that it is because it is often too little too late, a six point handicap until it comes into play, without much choice when it comes into play at all. But that's only if you let it be so. Damage now is better than damage later - the 12 point z is there to work from the opening, its value decreases with time, so we need to deploy Nashtah before it's worth less than 6 points.

What I propose is that the hounds tooth and regular YV-666 must be flown in a different manner (and thus built in a different manner) if we want to play the ship competitively. As a six point break in case my investment dies escape craft- it's not worth it, but as a six point extra fighter in the furball, it's fine.

I alredy tried this with Bossk + Draw their Fire + Greedo + Title + Mangler + Dampeners ... and I felt it was not worth it. The result was that Bossk drew all attention and popped quickly. The Z did nothing and just popped in the following rounds. My opponent had some lucky dice, though.

Still, I don't have the feeling that this is the way to go. If you could take over some of the upgrade cards this would be a different story.

Yes a regular 666 would be way cheaper to archive a similar effect.

But I am a fan of the famous bounty hunters and want to fly with Bossk in the Hounds' Tooth.

Yeah, that'd make sense: the ship is exploding but you still have time to remove a complete heavy laser cannon, including power supply and mount it ona different ship. .

I knew somebody would argue with this.

And the award goes to Dago!

The Nashta Pup is a heavily modified Z-95. Why shouldn't Bossk have the weapon systems enhanced as well? Just imagine that Bossk has installed similar cannons to the Pup.

I could deal with a crewmember, but no ship that size has the required power supply. :-P

Yeah, that'd make sense: the ship is exploding but you still have time to remove a complete heavy laser cannon, including power supply and mount it ona different ship. .

I knew somebody would argue with this.

And the award goes to Dago!

The Nashta Pup is a heavily modified Z-95. Why shouldn't Bossk have the weapon systems enhanced as well? Just imagine that Bossk has installed similar cannons to the Pup.

I could deal with a crewmember, but no ship that size has the required power supply. :-P

There are miniaturized power cells made with illegal and extremely expensive anti-matter technology available to those having the right connections to people knowing other people that have access to those precious and delicate pieces of technology....

Besides ... Blasters don't use that much energy but gas ... Flechette-Cannons are slug-throwers. Im not so sure about Manglers ... are these kind of disruptors or disintegrators?

And if a modified Scyk could equip a HLC - why a modified Z shouldn't be able?

I like the idea of maintaining the Elite and Crew upgrades in the Nashtah Pup, but I think including more than that is a bit overboard.

I'm fine with it as it is.

And you want a Z-95 to carry over 3 crew if the player took all they could? That makes no sense to me.

It's a 6 point way to keep yourself in the game when every other ship of the same type would of just died and that's it. And it's half the points the same type of ship would of cost if you bought it for your list.

That's what its for. doesn't need to be some super-Z with all these carried over upgrades and abilities.

And you want a Z-95 to carry over 3 crew if the player took all they could? That makes no sense to me.

I'm pretty sure nobody said that. So far all the examples have illustrated that you would pick one crew out of the three that were on the original ship.

That's what its for. doesn't need to be some super-Z with all these carried over upgrades and abilities.

A modification of the rules for the title would be a chance to bring the 666 to the competitive scene, wouldn't it?

The super-Z would be a super reason to get Bossk + Title on the table. And thats what I want to see.

Because I'm a fan of the Bounty Hunters, you know?

Boba (scum) + Title is fine (still fine enough even he wasnt amongst the top 32 at worlds)

IG88 + Title is fine

Bossk + Title ... is for 'fun play' only ... -> me:

And you want a Z-95 to carry over 3 crew if the player took all they could? That makes no sense to me.

I'm pretty sure nobody said that. So far all the examples have illustrated that you would pick one crew out of the three that were on the original ship.

It was literally your post above mine that I was talking about lol You said:

I like the idea of maintaining the Elite and Crew upgrades in the Nashtah Pup, but I think including more than that is a bit overboard.

And thought you meant all the crew you took. Apologies if you just meant the one crew card.

That's what its for. doesn't need to be some super-Z with all these carried over upgrades and abilities.

A modification of the rules for the title would be a chance to bring the 666 to the competitive scene, wouldn't it?

The super-Z would be a super reason to get Bossk + Title on the table. And thats what I want to see.

Because I'm a fan of the Bounty Hunters, you know?

Boba (scum) + Title is fine (still fine enough even he wasnt amongst the top 32 at worlds)

IG88 + Title is fine

Bossk + Title ... is for 'fun play' only ... -> me:

We've only really had one major event since the release. I know in my local meta NONE of wave 7 apart from the TLT card had really broken into people's lists yet.

I'm a big fan of the YV and want to use it as much as I can, but I don't think I'll need a super-Z to do it. In fact I've hardly made any lists with it at all, rather spend the points keeping the YV alive and killing people itself.

I think people are totally mis-reading why FFG made this upgrade and what they expected it to be used for. The Pup was never designed or expected to be a ship that could run around being stupidly awesome. It was designed to give some EU character flavour to a ship from the EU, and in game-terms, to give it something unique. A way for the player to keep their list in the game a little longer via an escape ship. It can still be your winning ship, or it can help you claim back some MOV by killing off an enemy before you lose.

That's it. It's not supposed to be a way to make the YV viable, that is covered by the slots and abilities and arc of the YV and it's pilots. This isn't a Ghost/Phantom situation. Its a 'last-ditch' situation. Especially based on the points it costs to take. 12 points or more gets you and actual Z with actual abilities. 6 points gets you an escape vehicle (which is still a full Z for half the points, save for the upgrade slots)

And you want a Z-95 to carry over 3 crew if the player took all they could? That makes no sense to me.

I'm pretty sure nobody said that. So far all the examples have illustrated that you would pick one crew out of the three that were on the original ship.

It was literally your post above mine that I was talking about lol You said:

I like the idea of maintaining the Elite and Crew upgrades in the Nashtah Pup, but I think including more than that is a bit overboard.

And thought you meant all the crew you took. Apologies if you just meant the one crew card.

Yeah. That's just a misunderstanding and I wasn't clear. I used the plural of 'upgrade' because there are two upgrades: 1 crew and 1 Elite.

I think people are totally mis-reading why FFG made this upgrade and what they expected it to be used for. The Pup was never designed or expected to be a ship that could run around being stupidly awesome. It was designed to give some EU character flavour to a ship from the EU, and in game-terms, to give it something unique. A way for the player to keep their list in the game a little longer via an escape ship. It can still be your winning ship, or it can help you claim back some MOV by killing off an enemy before you lose.

That's it. It's not supposed to be a way to make the YV viable, that is covered by the slots and abilities and arc of the YV and it's pilots. This isn't a Ghost/Phantom situation. Its a 'last-ditch' situation. Especially based on the points it costs to take. 12 points or more gets you and actual Z with actual abilities. 6 points gets you an escape vehicle (which is still a full Z for half the points, save for the upgrade slots)

I totally get why they made the card and I think it is a fun card. But I'm also feeling like the benefit it gives is too little too late. Like you said, you'd rather spend points to make the YV-666 do its work rather than waiting for the Z-95. That's fine. It's a perfectly good strategy. But what it looks like at the moment is that using the title is not a good strategy.

You also pointed out that the title is a fun way to add flavor to a well-known Star Wars character. In that vein, giving that pilot its Elite upgrade and a choice of one Crew upgrade is also very thematic. I mean, how does the pilot escape and not have the Elite ability it had when it was piloting the other ship? Did it leave its skills in the cockpit? And the crew addition is very thematic since that was a major part of the story in which the Nashtah Pup first appeared. So adding these two things to the escape ship gives it more flavor in addition to a bit more impact on the table.

But you know, I think I've theory-crafted enough. Maybe I'll find that the title is perfectly costed after I use it a bunch. Now I just need to wait until Christmas, open my YV-666, and get the Hound's Tooth on the table. My Nashtah Pup is certainly ready to go!

Everyone always says "when you have 12 points left to fill in your list, it's better to take a z-95/TIE fighter than to tack on 12 points of upgrades." You can now say the same thing if you're scum flying the YV-666 when you have 6 points remaining.

The enemy can focus down your YV first, allowing the rest of your list to do what it wants, and end up with another Z to kill along with them. Or they can save the YV for last knowing that after it dies they have 4 more HP to claw through and it's going to have its choice of approach angle when it emerges.