I guess there has been discussions in the past about wether the 6 points for the Hound's Tooth are worth it or not.

Apart thats undoubtly a funny and fresh game element to start a small ship out of a large ship.

I think right now its not worth it at all. For 6 points you can get some decent upgrades that actually help to make the 666 more efficient wehile alive and healthy.

You could see the title as kind of an insurance - but in the games I played with it, it hasn't payed off.

For 6 points it should have an impact to the game. For only 2 points more you get the Emperor - and he's a game changer.

Or if you take the IG2000 title. Now thats a massive impact for only 0 points.

I think the Hound's Tooth should be 0 points as well. An auto-include? Hell yes! Just like the IG-2000 title.

Even if the designers now would re-think this element - there is nothing that could be done at this point.

But what if the 6 points for the title would not be lost with the 666.

What if the Z-95 would be worth exactly the 6 points.

Or even better:

What if all points for the 666 are 'stored' in the Z and could only be earned if the Z gets killed too?

This would be the impact the title would need to be used.

What do you think?

The IG title only has a massive impact if you spend half your squad points in making it useful, locking you into a build.

You are judging the Hound's Tooth title by its competitive merits only, that is where you go wrong.

Personally, I'm in favor of putting half of the Hound's Tooth's points into the Nashtah Pup. In essence, it gives you a 4-hp lease on partial scoring of a large ship. So if your opponent's Hound's Tooth was worth 50 points, you'd get 25 points after stripping shields, but you wouldn't get the last 25 points until you took out the Nashtah Pup. I can see how others wouldn't agree, though. At the very least, The Z-95 should be worth 6 points.

Personally, I'm in favor of putting half of the Hound's Tooth's points into the Nashtah Pup. In essence, it gives you a 4-hp lease on partial scoring of a large ship. So if your opponent's Hound's Tooth was worth 50 points, you'd get 25 points after stripping shields, but you wouldn't get the last 25 points until you took out the Nashtah Pup. I can see how others wouldn't agree, though. At the very least, The Z-95 should be worth 6 points.

Completely in favor of this. It's even thematically fitting, being an escape craft and all.

In casual games where MOV doesn't matter it can be good value. Focusing down the big ship is a common tactic and the title punishes you for it. Especially if Latts was your pilot, since her ability is the most useful once she's flying the Pup.

Personally, I'm in favor of putting half of the Hound's Tooth's points into the Nashtah Pup. In essence, it gives you a 4-hp lease on partial scoring of a large ship. So if your opponent's Hound's Tooth was worth 50 points, you'd get 25 points after stripping shields, but you wouldn't get the last 25 points until you took out the Nashtah Pup. I can see how others wouldn't agree, though. At the very least, The Z-95 should be worth 6 points.

The main point here is that it's a Z that's out of play until late game, where it's 146% useless.

Slaver with title for 35 points is worth it imo. Even more so if you have xizor next to it the whole time. Latta is great with the title. Bossk dead man's switch and title is hilarious in casual. It's not a defensive upgrade, it's very much an offensive upgrade. It has won me (casual) games when I needed two shots in a round to keep poe/corran from healing.

I had thought as well before the ruling, that the points for the Hound's tooth would stay with the pup. Bad ruling imo, and it's exactly what keeps from a competitive upgrade.

At 35 points, the Trandoshan Slaver with the Houndstooth Title is the cheapest pile of hit points that Scum has access to. The only cheaper hit points in the game are the OGP Shuttle and that is only slightly less expensive.

I think a change to the rules on it, for competitive play, would be huge. Make getting the last half points reliant on dropping the Pup as well as the Tooth, and suddenly it's a really viable card.

And it's a shame, because it's a really fun card, and in a straight "death match" scenario it's not even a bad card. You're still throwing out another 4HP for your opponent to deal with, shooting down a ship hasn't completely removed it from the board, and Bossk or Latts are both still using their ability (making for a Z that's still buffing the rest of the squad or a Z with a potentially nasty bite).

Personally, I'd do this:

1. Change the MoV ruling on it. Either give it the last half of the YV-666's point total or, at the very least, those last six points worth for the title. So a 46 point Latts would go 20/20/6, for example.

2. Allow Bossk, and any future pilots, to keep their EPT. You keep your pilot ability already, so why not?

Honestly, it should serve as a bit of a deterrent I feel: in an ideal situation, a player should look at the Hound's Tooth and think "I can go ahead and chew through that 12HP, but then I'll leave myself with another four to go AND a second agility dice to worry about". Right now it doesn't do that, in large part because of the MoV system. You can get those 40+ points them promptly stop giving a crap about the Pup in most scenarios. At the very worst, you've screwed over your opponent's MoV.

Still gonna keep using it. It's just so fun.

The Pup was modified to take an extra passenger.

Unlike a Y-wing, but very much like a B-wing, the passenger isn't crewing a turret or the like.

"When deploying, you may equip one [EPT] and one [Crew] upgrade of your choice from the original ship."

Now that's a 6-point Z-95 worth buying.

Would be even good if Bossk could keep his Calculation or Marksmanship EPT to actually be able to do damage while in the Z.

I agree that it's almost useless competitively and the 6 points could go a lot farther in just upgrades for the ship.

However in casual play it's great fun, one of the times I have run it the pup was the only ship left on the field with only 1 hit point of hull left on it... You don't get games closer that that.

So this comes down to a very simple question. Does everything have to be strong competitively? I believe the answer to this is no, no it does not. The card is fun, therefore it meets the most important criteria in something I do for fun. I may not take it to a tournament but there are lots of cards and ships I currently would not take to tournaments.

I had thought as well before the ruling, that the points for the Hound's tooth would stay with the pup. Bad ruling imo, and it's exactly what keeps from a competitive upgrade.

Not to single you out killerbeardhawk, since several posters are making this point, but this is not what keeps it from being a competitive upgrade (ie, an upgrade that appears in competitive lists).

The problem is that the YV-666 itself is not really a competitive ship. It's not like we saw a bunch of YV-666s at Words without the title doing well, we didn't really see any YV-666 ships doing well.If the YV-666 was an aggressively competitive ship, you'd see it and the Pup more often.

But the problem is to be competitive right now you have to be heavily defensive such that you cancel/negate one or more attacks a turn (Poe, Corran, Fel, Whisper, Jax, Fat Dash/Falcon, Aggressor), a cheap blocker/filler (TIE, Z-95), or you need to be cheap and efficient at soaking and dealing reliable damage (TLT).

The YV-666 doesn't do any of these three things terribly well. It efficiently soaks damage, but unlike a Y-Wing with TLT it doesn't deal out reliable damage because of the 180 arc's blindspot, which is exploited painfully by the high PS arc dodgers that are so prevalent right now.

I had thought as well before the ruling, that the points for the Hound's tooth would stay with the pup. Bad ruling imo, and it's exactly what keeps from a competitive upgrade.

Not to single you out killerbeardhawk, since several posters are making this point, but this is not what keeps it from being a competitive upgrade (ie, an upgrade that appears in competitive lists).

The problem is that the YV-666 itself is not really a competitive ship. It's not like we saw a bunch of YV-666s at Words without the title doing well, we didn't really see any YV-666 ships doing well.If the YV-666 was an aggressively competitive ship, you'd see it and the Pup more often.

But the problem is to be competitive right now you have to be heavily defensive such that you cancel/negate one or more attacks a turn (Poe, Corran, Fel, Whisper, Jax, Fat Dash/Falcon, Aggressor), a cheap blocker/filler (TIE, Z-95), or you need to be cheap and efficient at soaking and dealing reliable damage (TLT).

The YV-666 doesn't do any of these three things terribly well. It efficiently soaks damage, but unlike a Y-Wing with TLT it doesn't deal out reliable damage because of the 180 arc's blindspot, which is exploited painfully by the high PS arc dodgers that are so prevalent right now.

Those are good points, but I think what we're kinda thinking -- well, what I'm kinda thinking -- is that if the Hound's Tooth title was good enough, you wouldn't worry about having a lot of defense on your YV-666 because when it goes down, you get to bring out the Nashtah Pup. The YV-666 could be an expendable ship and it would be okay.

I had thought as well before the ruling, that the points for the Hound's tooth would stay with the pup. Bad ruling imo, and it's exactly what keeps from a competitive upgrade.

Not to single you out killerbeardhawk, since several posters are making this point, but this is not what keeps it from being a competitive upgrade (ie, an upgrade that appears in competitive lists).

The problem is that the YV-666 itself is not really a competitive ship. It's not like we saw a bunch of YV-666s at Words without the title doing well, we didn't really see any YV-666 ships doing well.If the YV-666 was an aggressively competitive ship, you'd see it and the Pup more often.

But the problem is to be competitive right now you have to be heavily defensive such that you cancel/negate one or more attacks a turn (Poe, Corran, Fel, Whisper, Jax, Fat Dash/Falcon, Aggressor), a cheap blocker/filler (TIE, Z-95), or you need to be cheap and efficient at soaking and dealing reliable damage (TLT).

The YV-666 doesn't do any of these three things terribly well. It efficiently soaks damage, but unlike a Y-Wing with TLT it doesn't deal out reliable damage because of the 180 arc's blindspot, which is exploited painfully by the high PS arc dodgers that are so prevalent right now.

Those are good points, but I think what we're kinda thinking -- well, what I'm kinda thinking -- is that if the Hound's Tooth title was good enough, you wouldn't worry about having a lot of defense on your YV-666 because when it goes down, you get to bring out the Nashtah Pup. The YV-666 could be an expendable ship and it would be okay.

And if you got to steal crew and/or EPTs for your Pup as it escaped, it'd make the price justification of putting them on the original ship much cheaper.

Possibly too cheap. Funny how games work, eh?

With that said, a Z-95 with Recon Specialist might be efficient, but a Z-95 with Tactician would be hilarious.

In timed tournament matches it's not worth it since then your only objective is to shoot down as much points as possible in the time given and wasting 6 points on an upgrade what won't help you do that is just not worth it.

However in casual games I don't think it's that bad depending on what list you are playing. Alot of things are pretty decent in casual though

Yeah ... its an upgrade for untimed casual games.

But even then. Boy that 6 points hurt. Thats the points you want to spent for decent upgrade cards.

Yeah ... its an upgrade for untimed casual games.

But even then. Boy that 6 points hurt. Thats the points you want to spent for decent upgrade cards.

I totally agree about those 6 points. I just put a squad together where I wanted a Z-95 as a fourth ship, but didn't have 12 points left. One thought is to add the title for 6 points, or I could throw on "Hot Shot" Blaster with Munitions Failsafe for 4 points to threat ships that get on my six. Tough choices. For me, I'll definitely be including the title in my first few games with my YV-666 next month, but that's mostly because I'm a huge Bounty Hunter fan and want to fly all their ships with corresponding titles.

Thasts exactly what I thought. And thats what I did.

Maybe you will come up with different experiences - apart from that its fun to launch the Z.

And you don't have the Z on the table. You need to lose your 666 first, which is worth about 40 points to get a naked Z-95.

You would need to lose the 666 early in the game to make this ship worthwhile - bunt you don't want to exchange your 666 to a Z at that point or you are in trouble anyways by losing about half of the list.

It's not a bad way of adding in 4 more hit points into a list. I'm not sure the list below could be described as competitive, but it's a lot of HP to chew through to get to the Xizor centre, and Latts continues to be a pain in a Z-95.

It's not a bad way of adding in 4 more hit points into a list. I'm not sure the list below could be described as competitive, but it's a lot of HP to chew through to get to the Xizor centre, and Latts continues to be a pain in a Z-95.

Prince Xizor (31)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Fire-Control System (2)

Autothrusters (2)

Virago (1)

Latts Razzi (33)

Hound's Tooth (6)

Binayre Pirate (12)

Binayre Pirate (12)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

And now dispose VI and the Hounds' Tooth title and get Bossk crew and a gunner into the 666 and you get a much better list.

And now dispose VI and the Hounds' Tooth title and get Bossk crew and a gunner into the 666 and you get a much better list.

Oh, I'm not suggesting this is an optimised list by any means, but I do think the Hound's Tooth title helps Xizor's ability late game. Spawning a fresh Z-95 can be quite frustrating for your opponent if they want to start trying to kill Xizor.

You are going to need optimized lists for competitive play.

And my opponent wasn't frustrated at all. "Wow a naked Z, now I'm scared!"

He told me that its so not worth it. And he was true.

But I havn't used Latts and Xizor in my games.

If you could rescue some of the upgrade cards into the Z, like a crew card (it was mentioned that the Nashta Pup had a passenger seat) or even a cannon upgrade -

this would be awesome.

You are going to need optimized lists for competitive play.

And my opponent wasn't frustrated at all. "Wow a naked Z, now I'm scared!"

He told me that its so not worth it. And he was true.

But I havn't used Latts and Xizor in my games.

If you could rescue some of the upgrade cards into the Z, like a crew card (it was mentioned that the Nashta Pup had a passenger seat) or even a cannon upgrade -

this would be awesome.

Yeah, that'd make sense: the ship is exploding but you still have time to remove a complete heavy laser cannon, including power supply and mount it ona different ship. .

If you like, you could play it the Ghost way: equip a Z-95 as a regular pirate, keep it docked until the main ship is destroyed,

You are going to need optimized lists for competitive play.

And my opponent wasn't frustrated at all. "Wow a naked Z, now I'm scared!"

He told me that its so not worth it. And he was true.

But I havn't used Latts and Xizor in my games.

If you could rescue some of the upgrade cards into the Z, like a crew card (it was mentioned that the Nashta Pup had a passenger seat) or even a cannon upgrade -

this would be awesome.

Well, If you kept your EPT, Modification, Missile and Crew cards

(Crewman jumps in, and the rest of items count as being equipped because the pilot loves them and installed it everywhere!)

It could be worth it.

Razzil with huge trollface jumping out of the exploding 666 with Weapon Engineer...