From the PSwar thread https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/192595-the-ps-war-psw2-aces-fight-back/

Laetin would probably suit Juke reasonably well, but alas, no EPT.

To be honest, if the Scyk could take Tech upgrades, it'd be reasonably good.

Or illicits. Or anything. In the lore it is supposed to be super customizable and in the game it is almost impossible to upgrade it without a 2pt tax and then only a single costly upgrade.

Maybe we'll get a "light", "medium", and "military" scyk titles someday.

Still not sure why the Scyk has so weird costing. Lot of threads and speculations on that. Even the opinion, that the Scyk is not too expensive. Or a variation that it is priced right, but that the environment with super-action-efficient hyper-aces and TLTs is its problem.

Probably the developers were really afraid of generating a too strong swarm ship. And wanting to keep the scum Z95 viable.

And maybe something is in the pipeline, which we do not know yet, which would make cheaper Scyks OP.

The solutions with several different titles would be elegant. As you can have only one title, they are not stackable to generate a superfighter. If you make certain titles unique you also evade any swarm problems.

Problems: FFG would have to print a lot of cards for all the titles. It would clog up the game even more (soo many special options and cases). The naming "Heavy Scyk" implies powerful - but its a pretty meh title. So new titles will be overpowered compared to the old one.

Still I would just like to have it as a mind exercise. Maybe we come up with some cool stuff. Which can be tried out in homebrew casaul play.

Some suggestions/wild ideas:

Pt cost/Name/Effect

0(?) unique(?) "Highspeed interceptor/Racing Scyk" You may equip Engine Upgrade for a cost of 2. Not sure how problematic Autothruster Scyks/Scyk aces would be.

1(?) "Electronic Warfare Scyk" You may equip System Upgrades.

1 "Torpedoe Scyk" You may equip 1 Torp. Torps being so expensive and action craving, I would like the title too be cheaper than the current one. However the developers might want to stress S&V as the missile faction, as e.g. the Khiraxz also has missiles and not torps.

3? "Torpedoeboat" You may equip 2 torpedoes. Y-wing still viable, as it has turrets, bomb loadout and astromechs, and more health.

Shoot! Or shot the thread stone-dead with some vicious commentaries

If you made the Racing Scyk a 2 point title and have it put boost on the action bar it would allow the Scyk to take Autothrusters. The way you have it written now, it doesn't. I don't think an 18 point PS1 Scyk with Autothrusters and Boost would be overpowered. You'd essentially have an Alpha Interceptor that is two points cheaper but has a worse dial and one less attack.

If you gave Scyks a native Autothruster effect for free, I think that might put them where they need to be to be worth their cost.

The Heavy Scyk titles that give a Torpedo or Missile slot should give an Extra Munitions effect as well. This would make these versions of the Heavy Scyk title more competitive with the one that grants the cannon slot.

I haven't figured out why the M3-A doesn't have an illicit slot. That boggles my mind. For the Y-wing, I think Feedback Array was a big reason to not give it an illicit slot, but I can't see that or any of the other illicit upgrades being a problem. Was it just to make it dissimilar from the Z-95? I don't know.

Looking through your lists, there are some interesting ideas, but some I don't like.

0(?) unique(?) "Highspeed interceptor/Racing Scyk" You may equip Engine Upgrade for a cost of 2. Not sure how problematic Autothruster Scyks/Scyk aces would be.

-As mentioned above, you'd have to make the title grant the boost action to the action bar rather than having it take a cheaper engine upgrade. Otherwise you'd need something to allow two mods and that steps on the toes of the TIE Interceptors. As an "interceptor" class ship, I would be absolutely fine with Autothrusters on a Scyk. Maybe make the an "Overdriven Scyk" title that costs 2-3 and adds the boost action. But without the cannons and stuff, the Scyk just isn't as threatening. Plus, you've just taken an expensive agro ship and made it a cheaper defensive ship. That doesn't jive so well with the design philosophy of making defense more expensive than attack. Honestly, I just wish Scyks could get Autothrusters and keep their cannons.

1(?) "Electronic Warfare Scyk" You may equip System Upgrades.

-The Scyk doesn't strike me as a systems kind of ship. It would probably make it good, no doubts there. But I don't really like the feel of systems on this ship. Plus, if you give too many systems out, they aren't as special anymore. But let's say you did have a 1-cost title that adds systems slots. You could throw Accuracy Corrector for an extra 3 points. Now you have an 18 point ship that always gets two hits and can evade every turn. Sounds like AC Tempests except they get an extra hull and shield for 3 points. But I suppose their dial isn't as good.

1 "Torpedoe Scyk" You may equip 1 Torp. Torps being so expensive and action craving, I would like the title too be cheaper than the current one. However the developers might want to stress S&V as the missile faction, as e.g. the Khiraxz also has missiles and not torps.

-If Missiles aren't doing it for Scyks, I don't think switching to Torpedoes is going to change anything. And I don't want to see a discount on Torpedoes because there currently is no discount on Missiles and I think Missiles fit the Scyk better than Torpedoes do.

3? "Torpedoeboat" You may equip 2 torpedoes. Y-wing still viable, as it has turrets, bomb loadout and astromechs, and more health.

-Same issue as above, although now you could equip Extra Munitions and Advanced Proton Torpedoes. Throw that on a PtL Tansarii Point Veteran and you've got a 31-point bringer of death ... or not. With the cost of the title being at three and Extra Munitions costing 2, you're only saving a single point on that second APT. Which means that 3 points is probably too high of a cost.

If the 'Heavy' title also would add one hull point they would be completely doable.

Thats all what it needs.

If I could put Glitterstim on a Syck, I'd be more apt to play it!

Yeah, I'd love to put dead man switches on a scyk swarm, or glitterstim.

Ridiculously Heavy Scyk (4)

At the start of the Activation Phase, you gain 4 Energy. You may equip Hardpoint upgrade cards.

Tractor beams are inbound (maybe. We have no news in almost 2 months. That will probably shed some light on the Scyk cannon cost but the rest of the ship is still terrible. They made it fix proof by not allowing it any upgrade slots. Mods and titles are about it.

Maybe they'll make a scyk only "cannon":

Hard point reduction, -2 cost. You lose your cannon slot. You may equip two modifications.

I wouldn't be surprised to see light, medium, and "military" titles. That could be the only fix.

But I still think getting new titles is not a "fix" for the Scyk. The whole point of this ship is to be able to customize it with different secondary weapons. If you lose that, you lose the whole concept of the ship, so any new title that replaces the current one removes the Scyk from it's targeted design space. Sure, you could make a new title that replaces the old one, allowing you to still add secondary weapons, but FFG doesn't typically replace cards. They'll want to keep the current options open.

But I still think getting new titles is not a "fix" for the Scyk. The whole point of this ship is to be able to customize it with different secondary weapons. If you lose that, you lose the whole concept of the ship, so any new title that replaces the current one removes the Scyk from it's targeted design space. Sure, you could make a new title that replaces the old one, allowing you to still add secondary weapons, but FFG doesn't typically replace cards. They'll want to keep the current options open.

I just don't see it working without a big revamp of missiles and torps or Scyk/Scum only versions of stuff. 2pt is a **** big tax on a ship that might already be a point overcosted. New FOs got a sheild, sloop, new slot, TL for 3pts over the tie and isn't exactly meta shifting (though I think the Named will come around) and relative the the tie FO the Scyk is looking really sad.

But I still think getting new titles is not a "fix" for the Scyk. The whole point of this ship is to be able to customize it with different secondary weapons. If you lose that, you lose the whole concept of the ship, so any new title that replaces the current one removes the Scyk from it's targeted design space. Sure, you could make a new title that replaces the old one, allowing you to still add secondary weapons, but FFG doesn't typically replace cards. They'll want to keep the current options open.

I just don't see it working without a big revamp of missiles and torps or Scyk/Scum only versions of stuff. 2pt is a **** big tax on a ship that might already be a point overcosted. New FOs got a sheild, sloop, new slot, TL for 3pts over the tie and isn't exactly meta shifting (though I think the Named will come around) and relative the the tie FO the Scyk is looking really sad.

A naked Tansaari Point Vet is the same cost as a Green Squad Pilot with Chaardan Refit. I've got no idea what FFG was thinking when they priced the Scyk.

A naked Tansaari Point Vet is the same cost as a Green Squad Pilot with Chaardan Refit. I've got no idea what FFG was thinking when they priced the Scyk.

... I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. I'm going to assume you're not. So let's dive further into that comparison because it's not a comparison I've made yet.

Stats are a good place to start.

PS 3 (GSP) vs. PS 5 (TPV)

Primary Weapon: 2

Agility: 3

Hull: 2

Shield: 2 (GSP) vs. 1 (TPV)

So it looks like the TPV gets a free, 1-point Veteran Instincts while the GSP gets a free 4-point shields upgrade. Okay, that's fine. I'm not passing judgement yet.

Let's look at dials.

First, I want to just look at presence/absence, then we'll talk color. Both have a 3- and 5-Koiogran turn. Both have the excellent 1-turns. Both can maneuver straight at speeds 2-4 (but not 1), and both can bank 3. But the A-wing is clearly faster, able to go straight 5 and turn at speed 3 (so jealous of that turn 3!). Instead, the Scyk gets a tool to go a bit slower: the 1-bank. But now let's look at the color. The A-wing gets all of its 2-speed and straight maneuvers in green. That's 8 maneuvers! The Scyk gets 6. Well, that' not too bad, I guess. It gets 1- and 2-speed banks as well as the 2- and 3- straights. No turns, though.

How are their upgrade options?

Both get an Elite upgrade. Actually, the GSP can get 2 Elites with its 0-cost title. That's interesting. The GSP cannot take a missile because we're comparing the Chardaan Refit version to the TPV. The GSP has access to the powerful Autothrusters, but I don't know if that's a fair comparison for costing a ship. Is it? Maybe. The TPV can take a 2-point title to add one of three upgrade slots. So at 19 points you could have a GSP with a missile slot and you could have a Scyk with a missile OR torpedo OR cannon slot. That 2-point title actually goes a long way, but it gets to be expensive, especially for a ship with fewer shields.

In summary, for 17 points the TPV gets better PS, 1 less shield, a slightly weaker dial, and fewer Elite options. At 19 points, you get the same thing except now the GSP gets a missile while the TPV has several options for secondary weapons.

Honestly, on paper they're looking really close, but the Scyk could still use just a little something. The GSP is competitive because of Charddan Refit and A-Wing Test Pilot -- both cards from its aces pack. Maybe a replacement title is what the Scyk needs; something that will allow it to still take an array of secondary weapons, but gives it more defense. But then you'll have a whole bunch of unhappy folks who don't want to buy new Scyks to make their old ones competitive. (I mean, Rebel Aces was good with the number of copies of these cards, but I'm a little disappointed with Integrated Astromech and I'd hope the Scyk fix wouldn't follow that.)

If not a title, though, then what? It probably needs to be something novel.

Add a systems slot -- TIE Advanced

Points reduction -- A-wing

2 Elite upgrades -- A-wing

2 modifications -- TIE Interceptor

Discard an upgrade to negate a damage -- X-wing

What we haven't seen is a card that lets you equip two titles. Wouldn't that be awesome if the Scyk fix came with 2 or 3 more titles that added a small effect and then said, "You may equip up to two titles"? For example:

"Reinforced Scyk" Interceptor -- M3-A Interceptor only. Increase your hull value by 1. You may equip a second title card. (0 points)

"Overdriven Scyk" Interceptor -- M3-A Interceptor only. Your action bar gains the boost icon. You may equip a second title card. (1 point)

On second thought, I just reread the entry on Wookieepedia. It definitely makes it sound like it was a TIE Fighter with cannons, torpedoes, or missiles. It allegedly didn't have room for advanced computer systems or engine boosters. It feels like what we have is a pretty faithful rendition of the ship. I just can't help feeling like the 14-point base cost wasn't because it's worth that, but just to keep it from stepping on the Z-95's toes. Same goes for the illicit slot. I really hate the idea of doing the same fix twice, but a straight-up points reduction seems like the best way to go to keep this ship faithful to the source material.

Still not sure why the Scyk has so weird costing. Lot of threads and speculations on that. Even the opinion, that the Scyk is not too expensive.

Well, A-wing is 1 point more expensive, has great move dial, boost, extra shield

Tie-fo is 1 point more expensive, has better dial, 1 extra hull and a slot.

Sounds underpowered Bantacrap to me

And yeah, Lore-wise scyk was LESS expensive than a TIe-fighter

Tracer missiles, 4 x advanced homing missiles, munitions failure on all.

Those tracers will allow you to hit pretty hard.

Tracer missiles, 4 x advanced homing missiles, munitions failure on all.

Those tracers will allow you to hit pretty hard.

If you want MEGA ALPHA STRIKE

you may attempt Z-swarm.

Scyks are more expensive.

In my table the M3 is a good ship because...

A : can equip illicit

B : the heavy title is free.

I can guarantee that it is not above or below average cost to use ratio.. It is one of the blessings involved in playing home with friends.

It does not need more fixes. Keep it simple, Soldier.

Tracer missiles, 4 x advanced homing missiles, munitions failure on all.

Those tracers will allow you to hit pretty hard.

If you want MEGA ALPHA STRIKE

you may attempt Z-swarm.

Scyks are more expensive.

But the Scyk would also give me access to Plasma Torpedoes or cannons.

A naked Tansaari Point Vet is the same cost as a Green Squad Pilot with Chaardan Refit. I've got no idea what FFG was thinking when they priced the Scyk.

... I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.

Not sarcastic at all. Like the TIE/fo the A-Wing is a perfect example of how badly costed the Scyk is.

In summary, for 17 points the TPV gets better PS, 1 less shield, a slightly weaker dial, and fewer Elite options. At 19 points, you get the same thing except now the GSP gets a missile while the TPV has several options for secondary weapons.

Honestly, on paper they're looking really close, but the Scyk could still use just a little something. The GSP is competitive because of Charddan Refit and A-Wing Test Pilot -- both cards from its aces pack.

FFG knew that they needed the fix to get A-Wings on the table and then released a ship that was in the same place as the pre-Rebel Aces A-Wing had been.That's what doesn't make sense to me. I don't see how the Scyk in its current form made it to the shelves. I can forgive wave one and two ships for being poorly balanced. Hell, I can even cut them some slack on the Defender since that white K-Turn was something really new. It's crazy for a Wave 6 ship that introduces nothing new to be as out of whack as the Scyk is.

In my table the M3 is a good ship because...

A : can equip illicit

B : the heavy title is free.

I can guarantee that it is not above or below average cost to use ratio.. It is one of the blessings involved in playing home with friends.

It does not need more fixes. Keep it simple, Soldier.

That's borderline troll material there. "Hey, you don't need your favorite ship to get any better if you're playing at tournaments -- just cheat!"

I'm glad it works for you and your buddies, but your approach is not going to work with total strangers. And if your method is reducing the cost of the Scyk like that, then you are supporting the mentality that the ship could use a fix.

Even if the base Scyk would have been released at 12 points, I don't think it would have completely ousted the Z-95. The Z-95 has an illicit and missile slot for 12 points, makes better wingmen for Xizor, and plenty of people would prefer the predictability of 2 agility and four health over 3 agility and 3 health.

I think you are right for some people, but others do like the better movement of the Scyk.

I think you are right for some people, but others do like the better movement of the Scyk.

Which is okay, that just means that people have options at that price point.

Maybe hey need a cannon that benefits from high agility.

Range 1 - 3, 1 damage, add 1 die for each agility you have.

It would have to be expensive though, because you could then equip stealth device to make it a 5 attack cannon.

Maybe hey need a cannon that benefits from high agility.

Range 1 - 3, 1 damage, add 1 die for each agility you have.

It would have to be expensive though, because you could then equip stealth device to make it a 5 attack cannon.

Interesting idea. Even at 5 points, that seems pretty nice. It effectively brings the cost of Scyks and Defenders down by 2, assuming they would have taken an HLC. Sure, you could get that extra die if you spend 3 points on a Stealth Device, but you lose that die if you get hit.

If a 5-dice attack is too much of a problem, maybe it could just have an attack value equal to your Agility value. This would pretty much only help Scyks but not Defenders, so it could probably be priced more competitively. Sure, you're only giving the Scyk the same attack as a TIE Interceptor, but you also ignore range bonuses with the attack. That gives it some pros and cons.

If it's going to be the same attack dice as your agility, it would need some added benefit - for example one blank automatically becomes a hit.