Hello all,

I never post, but think I need help. I love this game (as well as x-wing) playing both nearly every week. I'm lucky enough to have won some wave 2 stuff and play others who have won stuff too. Wave 2 is great and so far played about 10 games of 400 pts wave 2, so just getting the new units and understanding how they work. Ackbar is good (too good?), but so far all games have played him on the Mc80, which has major weaknesses (Lack of Gunnery team, Slow and poor movement, large base). Don't get me wrong Mc80 is far from ineffective, it is a ship of strengths and weaknesses and fits well into the game. However I will be playing with and against the following this week. I want to understand from the great Armada fan base what suggestions people have to beat this list with Empire. So thoughts.

SHIP: Assault Frigate Mark II B 72
Admiral Ackbar 38
Gunnery Team7
Electronic Countermeasures7
Enhanced Armament 10
Total Points: 134
SHIP: Assault Frigate Mark II B 72
Gunnery Team7
Enhanced Armament 10
Total Points: 89
SHIP: Assault Frigate Mark II B 72
Gunnery Team7
Enhanced Armament 10
Total Points: 89
SHIP: MC30c Scout Frigate 69
Gunnery Team7
Enhanced Armament 10
Total Points: 86

= 398

Well before I can give list advice what objectives am I looking at here too? That determines if I build for iniative or without. (Since we're tailoring we can allow that bit of cheating . )

I'd confidently take my all-comers list against that. Not to say it would be a walkover, but I feel I'd stand a decent chance:

Expeditionary Fleet

Points: 397/400

Commander: Admiral Motti

Assault Objective: Precision Strike
Defense Objective: Fire Lanes
Navigation Objective: Superior Positions

[ flagship ] Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points)
- Admiral Motti ( 24 points)
- Relentless ( 3 points)
- Intel Officer ( 7 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Boosted Comms ( 4 points)
- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)
- X-17 Turbolasers ( 6 points)
- SW 7 Ion Batteries ( 5 points)

Victory II-Class Star Destroyer (85 points)
- Corrupter ( 5 points)
- Captain Needa ( 2 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Boosted Comms ( 4 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
- SW 7 Ion Batteries ( 5 points)

1 Major Rhymer ( 16 points)
2 TIE Bomber Squadrons ( 18 points)
1 Soontir Fel ( 18 points)
1 TIE Interceptor Squadron ( 11 points)
3 TIE Fighter Squadrons ( 24 points)
1 TIE Advanced Squadron ( 12 points)

Basic idea against the Rebel fleet in your example would be to make sure he can't concentrate all his fire against any one of my ships, hanging back for as long as possible while the squadrons will try to do as much damage as they can (which is a respectable 5 damage average for the 7 squadrons I can activate with 2 squadron commands). Once in blue dice range, my two capital ships can take out pretty much any Rebel ship in that list that has sustained a bit of shield damage from the squadrons in 1 turn, doing an average of 13.5 total damage of which only 2 can be redirected, and only 3 can be braced (once per targetted ship) assuming the ISD activates first.

I will try my hand at this. . .

+++ Imperial interdiction (395pts) +++

Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (187pts)

Electronic Countermeasures (7pts),

Gunnery Team (7pts),

Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams (6pts),

XI7 Turbolasers (6pts),

•Avenger (5pts),

•Darth Vader (36pts)

Victory I-Class Star Destroyer (92pts)

Gunnery Team (7pts),

Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams (6pts),

XI7 Turbolasers (6pts)

Victory I-Class Star Destroyer (92pts)

Gunnery Team (7pts),

Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams (6pts),

XI7 Turbolasers (6pts)

+ Squadrons (24pts) +

TIE Fighter Squadron (8pts)

TIE Fighter Squadron (8pts)

TIE Fighter Squadron (8pts)

+ Objectives +

Assault Objective [Precision Strike]

Defense Objective [Fire Lanes]

Navigation Objective [superior Positions]

Hello all,

I never post, but think I need help. I love this game (as well as x-wing) playing both nearly every week. I'm lucky enough to have won some wave 2 stuff and play others who have won stuff too. Wave 2 is great and so far played about 10 games of 400 pts wave 2, so just getting the new units and understanding how they work. Ackbar is good (too good?), but so far all games have played him on the Mc80, which has major weaknesses (Lack of Gunnery team, Slow and poor movement, large base). Don't get me wrong Mc80 is far from ineffective, it is a ship of strengths and weaknesses and fits well into the game. However I will be playing with and against the following this week. I want to understand from the great Armada fan base what suggestions people have to beat this list with Empire. So thoughts.

SHIP: Assault Frigate Mark II B 72

Admiral Ackbar 38

Gunnery Team7

Electronic Countermeasures7

Enhanced Armament 10

Total Points: 134

SHIP: Assault Frigate Mark II B 72

Gunnery Team7

Enhanced Armament 10

Total Points: 89

SHIP: Assault Frigate Mark II B 72

Gunnery Team7

Enhanced Armament 10

Total Points: 89

SHIP: MC30c Scout Frigate 69

Gunnery Team7

Enhanced Armament 10

Total Points: 86

= 398

For the all AFmkII gunline, I would, if you're considering a counter rather than a balanced list, go for Gladiator I boxing. Make a beeline for Ackbar and blow him out of the water ASAP. Keep your glads in the froggies' faces to keep em from getting those broadsides out.

ISDI + motti- 134

Demolisher + ACM + Ordnance Experts- 77

GladI + ACM -63 x 3 = 189

Got another idea: the "no squadron-punisher":

Rhymer + 7 tie bombers: 79 pts

2 x ISDI tractor beams, xi7, leading shots, ordnance experts, boosted comms, intel officer, one with vader

The idea is you run away from the frigates (speed 3 + tractor beams for the lulz) while you let Rhymer kill ackbar. Once he's dead (which should take... 1 round? two?) you pounce with the ISD's, rerolling the blacks twice fishing for crit/hits. You should be able to get close to one-shotting them if the brace has been surrendered/accuracied.

I am not sure you need leading shot when you have Vader. . . Sure it is a backup but.. . I don't think it is needed.

I am not sure you need leading shot when you have Vader. . . Sure it is a backup but.. . I don't think it is needed.

The idea is that you push the chances of not getting what you want (crit/hits on all 3 black dice) much lower with yet another selective reroll with LS, OE, vader.

Rather than having a 25% chance of hit-critting, it goes up to a whopping 70% per die with the 3 rerolls. The chances of getting a blank on the reds goes down to essentially zero as well.

I am not sure you need leading shot when you have Vader. . . Sure it is a backup but.. . I don't think it is needed.

The idea is that you push the chances of not getting what you want (crit/hits on all 3 black dice) much lower with yet another selective reroll with LS, OE, vader.

Rather than having a 25% chance of hit-critting, it goes up to a whopping 70% per die with the 3 rerolls. The chances of getting a blank on the reds goes down to essentially zero as well.

I was going to suggest something similar to the no-squadron-punisher above, though not quite as drastic.

EMPIRE FLEET (400 points)
1 • Imperial II-class Star Destroyer - Darth Vader - Intel Officer - Gunnery Team - Boosted Comms (174)
2 • Imperial II-class Star Destroyer - Intel Officer - Gunnery Team - Boosted Comms (138)
3 • Major Rhymer TIE Bomber Squadron (16)
4 • TIE Bomber Squadron (9)
5 • TIE Bomber Squadron (9)
6 • TIE Bomber Squadron (9)
7 • TIE Advanced Squadron (12)
8 • TIE Interceptor Squadron (11)
9 • TIE Interceptor Squadron (11)
10 • TIE Interceptor Squadron (11)
http://armada.fabpsb.net/permalink.php?sq=e14c7o5w1g3e14o5w1g3e8e9e9e9e12e7e7e7

You've got range up to about range '11' to launch a bomber attack. That attack takes out Ackbar's frigate. Even if he survives the first round, you can fire round 2, or maneuver to get a shot the round after. (Or just hit his other AFM2s to soften them up for the ISDs.)

I don't know how I feel about 2 ships in wave 2. . .

Well let me offer my suggestions, if availability is no issue.
-ISD1 110

-Admiral Motti 24

-Admiral Montferrat 5

Leading Shots 4

-XX-9 Turbolasers 5

-Devastator 10

-GSD1 56

-Ordnance Experts 4

-Engine Techs 8

-Assault Proton Torpedoes 5

-Demolisher 10

-GSD1 56

-Wulff Yularen 7

-Projection Experts 6

-?Assault Proton Torpedoes or Ordnance Experts? 5?

-Raider I 44

-Instigator 4

-Tie Advanced 12

-Tie Fighter 8

-Tie Fighter 8

-Tie FIghter 8

Most Wanted, Contested Outpost, Minefields

What's with the 3 ship lists? I feel as if they just don't have the activation economy to win it.

The 3 ship a lists trade activation economy for staying power and damage potential.

I don't know how I feel about 2 ships in wave 2. . .

I'm not sure either. Frankly, I didn't feel particularly good about 2 ships in wave I (though I lost at Sullust to a two ship list, so what do I know?). Just from a personal standpoint, I can fit two naked ISD Is with Vader and a Raider I into a 400 point list, with 100 points left for squadrons/upgrades, so I don't feel much need to crunch down to two ships. If I want two ISD IIs with all the goodies, though...

2 ships is minimal and the issue is that you are ALWAYS giving up activations.

Against a 4 ship list, if you are first player, you go, they go, you go, they go, they go, they go. Every turn.

If you see second, they go, you go, they go, you go, they go, they go.

All bad days.

3 is fairly mandatory in my lists, 2 can work, but you need solid objectives and your playing on a knifes edge. One mistake will cost you a game.

The 3 ship a lists trade activation economy for staying power and damage potential.

Lyraeus, I'm normally not imprudent enough to contradict you so blatantly, but I believe you rely too much on your Tractor beams to guard that rear. There is no device nor ship which can stand before the might of that Devastator build. I would, perhaps impudently, submit that your list would be crushed before the power of my theorycraft.

Of course, this is not the question.

If you test the devastator build I put together, it has a great deal of defense against multiple attacks, which is what you'd expect from the rebel scum. Motti has the extra hull to keep it going. Once you've lost 2 tokens, you can start to one shot anything but an MC80 or maul it beyond functionality.

With no squadron a rhymer ball with maxed out bombers will tear the other fleet ship apart.

The question is what due you have. Look at 2x ISD II with intell officer, gunnery team x17 and tractor beam. Them go rhymer and maxed bombers.i would suggest motti for the extra 3 hull. That means 8 bombers. So each ISD spams squadron commands. 1st round you send rhymer in he give all the bombers medium range that are within range 1 of him. He fires on the lead ship follows this up with the next three bombers all focusing on the same target. With their dice that 75% chance of pulling a dmg face.

The ISD moves at 2 and uses tractor beam to keep the mc30 at range. Intell to knock out brace when tapped while x17 nerfs his redirect. Gunnery team lets you fire your bow shoot at two different targets.

So with 4 bombers per ISD it tossing a total of 4 red/4 blue/4black against the 1st target and the ISD normal bow shot against the next target. The second ISD moves the next 4 bombers against the same target and moves up.

So 1st round the 1st bombwr group says roll 3 hits. Means a guppy is down three shields or down 2 side and 1 bow. But redirect is gone. Second group fires a hit/crit and 3 singles. Meana front shields gone. And he takes 2 hull or spends a brace on the hit/crit. So 1 hull

Doubt he have a engineering token. The ISD spamms a squadron again and fire four more black dice. Say you get 2blank/hit and a hit/crit. He burns the brace and has taken three hull with a face up crit. And he be in range of 4 red dice. The mc30 would be left have no side or front shield and 1 hull after round 1 and dead after the bombers go.

Then the ISD go and beats them up. The key is to keep them from getting behind you. Thus the speed 2. But the bombers can stay on them and tear them up

The problem building a list to kill that rebel fleet is easy but will suffer against a fleet with some squadrons that can lock down rhymer and the bombers

The 3 ship a lists trade activation economy for staying power and damage potential.

Lyraeus, I'm normally not imprudent enough to contradict you so blatantly, but I believe you rely too much on your Tractor beams to guard that rear. There is no device nor ship which can stand before the might of that Devastator build. I would, perhaps impudently, submit that your list would be crushed before the power of my theorycraft.

Of course, this is not the question.

If you test the devastator build I put together, it has a great deal of defense against multiple attacks, which is what you'd expect from the rebel scum. Motti has the extra hull to keep it going. Once you've lost 2 tokens, you can start to one shot anything but an MC80 or maul it beyond functionality.

I get crushed all the time and it is likely you could indeed hurt me. I am not worried about the ISD as much as I am worried about the GSD's. Those are handled though by the tractor beams.

The 3 ship a lists trade activation economy for staying power and damage potential.

Lyraeus, I'm normally not imprudent enough to contradict you so blatantly, but I believe you rely too much on your Tractor beams to guard that rear. There is no device nor ship which can stand before the might of that Devastator build. I would, perhaps impudently, submit that your list would be crushed before the power of my theorycraft.

Of course, this is not the question.

If you test the devastator build I put together, it has a great deal of defense against multiple attacks, which is what you'd expect from the rebel scum. Motti has the extra hull to keep it going. Once you've lost 2 tokens, you can start to one shot anything but an MC80 or maul it beyond functionality.

I get crushed all the time and it is likely you could indeed hurt me. I am not worried about the ISD as much as I am worried about the GSD's. Those are handled though by the tractor beams.

I wouldn't describe it as hurting you so much as being enough of a crackpot to ramble on about the power of my (currently) imaginary fleet of wave 2 miniatures.

the counter to the op list would obviously be heavy bombers, either rhymer or mas b-wings

2 ships is minimal and the issue is that you are ALWAYS giving up activations.

Against a 4 ship list, if you are first player, you go, they go, you go, they go, they go, they go. Every turn.

If you see second, they go, you go, they go, you go, they go, they go.

All bad days.

You also have to take into account the quality of those activations, I have never had a problem against cr90 swarm, i catch 2-3 of them and they go pop, the rest don't do enough damage to the heavier ships to be worth it. Maybe i will be proven wrong but i dont see the average ship count going up at all. i typically would run the double assault frigate mk 2 lists with heavy squadrons.

I don't know why its even a question. If you know exactly what list you are facing and its not a tournament where you have to have a balanced list of your own its a pretty straight forward answer.

The opposing list has no squadrons. Game over.

Build an entire list around being a big fat carrier for a max bomber point list. Bring the stuff that makes bombers go fast. Put your bombers where they will only face 1 arc of anti-fighter (typically the list you are facing is a "conga line list" that will try to make you charge into an overlapping set of broadside arcs so run your ISD carrier with boosted comms, hangar bays and wing commander(optional) parallel to it in range to activate your bomber swarm and stick them in front of the leading whale, unless he's going speed 3 you will get to put your bombers back in front of his whale after every activation meaning your carrier can almost sit pretty a mile away. Once he realizes hes going to get pinged down by bombers he might decide to come face you, which is where the empire shines, brother!

I realize the obvious downside to this list is the sheer cost in money to put it together. If i got this right, in max fighter point list you can cram 13 tie bombers and Rhymer which would require the purchase of 7 imperial fighter packs (insanity) but with 3 squadron packs (reasonable expectation for competitive play, if not conservative) you can still run out with Vader, 5 bombers, Rhymer and fill the rest with Tie Advanced (personally I would use firesprays, tho I only have 2 ATM).

I promise you if you play a list like this correctly he will poop himself when he sees the rhymerball.

Bombers. Oh man bombers. As an Imperial, play massed bombers and VSDs with Boosted Comms. You can probably table him without ever getting an actual shot off from your carriers.

And if you prefer to play Rebels, the answer is STILL Bombers. Y-Wings will cave Ackbar's bulbous face in. Want something faster? Grab a bunch of A-Wings and just pummel him with small damage.

Take a look at this:

400/400

Assault Frigate Mk2 B

Mon Mothma

Raymus Antilles

Gunnery Team

Boosted Comms

Assault frigate Mk2 B

Gunnery Team

Boosted Comms

Assault frigate Mk2 B

Gunnery Team

Boosted Comms

Dash Rendar

Y-Wing

Y-Wing

Y-Wing

Y-Wing

Y-Wing

Y-Wing

Y-Wing

Y-Wing

Y-Wing

Precision Strike

Fleet Ambush

Superior Positions

Yeah, let's see them try to handle that with no squadron support. Want to be on the offensive all game? Drop Raymus for a 7 point bid and let Dash activate himself in the squadron phase.