So why should any ship get a significantly different outcome to the same Critical Hit. It's supposed to be a critical hit, after all.

That still happens in the new deck.

The Decimator flat out ignores a crit and has the body to not care about the hit. Same for the Ghost.

And there are other crits ignored by other ships.

If you want only one damage deck across the board wait for Regional. In the latest articles it said that in order to provide all players with a consistent experience the new damage deck will be provided and all players at worlds were provided one. I am thinking that Premier tournaments such as Regionals will require the new deck. You might see new damage decks in Regional tournament kits.

That being said if you are the die-hard competitive type then it would make more sense to use the new damage deck even if the old one has critical effects that don't affect your ships just to get consistency down and some experience of what to expect and how you could compensate when some of the new critical effects hit your ships. It is best to get into tournament mode now than just to have a slightly better advantage over a few store tournaments that don't even have super-byes for the champion.

I would like some sources to back that claim, it's all too easy to victimize the designers.

Alex Davy is on this show and tells his reasoning for the new deck (forgive I cant tell the minutenumber I am at work and it is blocked by the firewall)

http://www.podcastgarden.com/login/audio-7/7799/Episode18AlexDavy_final.mp3

Paraphrased he said that the idea was to create an even and balanced damagedeck. One that that would make it relevant for all ships to get a critical hit and make it more or less equally relevant no matter what squad you fly with. People should fear a critical hit no matter if they are rookie or named pilots and whether they have a secondary weapon upgrade or not.

I would like some sources to back that claim, it's all too easy to victimize the designers.

Alex Davy is on this show and tells his reasoning for the new deck (forgive I cant tell the minutenumber I am at work and it is blocked by the firewall)

http://www.podcastgarden.com/login/audio-7/7799/Episode18AlexDavy_final.mp3

Paraphrased he said that the idea was to create an even and balanced damagedeck. One that that would make it relevant for all ships to get a critical hit and make it more or less equally relevant no matter what squad you fly with. People should fear a critical hit no matter if they are rookie or named pilots and whether they have a secondary weapon upgrade or not.[/size]

I have an idea. What if players could choose their own damage decks and we all lived with it because the old damage deck was a non-issue to begin with?

I'm sorry, but the game designers clearly disagree that the old damage deck wasn't an issue, otherwise they wouldn't have updated and revised the damage deck when given the chance to do so.

That a commercial decision has taken priority over that issue does not mean there wasn't an issue to begin with.

To be fair the designers are also wrong about Super Dash.

All the old deck did was on occasion screw HWK and Y-Wing players and people who put 60 points into a fat turret. Fat turret players getting screwed is always a good thing, and the occasional game where your Gold Squadron loses its TLT sucks but it never warranted the new deck.

Academy Pilots ignoring 1/7th of crit effects isn't actually a problem.

If the old deck was even an issue it was pretty much the least pressing one this game has ever faced. Certainly not enough to alienate a bunch of people unwilling to obtain the new core, and still less of an issue than Super Dash or Super Corran. They made the right decision allowing damage deck choice.

So why should any ship get a significantly different outcome to the same Critical Hit. It's supposed to be a critical hit, after all. If they wanted basic ships to be immune to 1/7 crits, you'd be able to roll an attack die for every crit and if you roll a crit as well, you flip it face down.

Would you be happy if your opponent was allowed to make you include an attack die that didn't have a crit marked on it a couple of times a game?

We all use the same dice, marked the same way for a reason. Allowing player choice over such a core game mechanic as the damage deck is, to my mind at least, a poor decision at a game design level. You don't normally get to chose which version of the decloak or barrel roll rules you want to use, why is the damage deck any different?

Especially when they had so many other options to get the new damage deck out there, such as including damage decks in Tournament packs so that players can access the new damage deck without buying the new core set.

I've played other systems that gave away printed copies of their new edition rule book (albeit a readers digest version) to players that showed their old rulebook to their games store. And they did that twice!

For a company that can and does print a stack of new art card versions for each new tournament pack, cost to the player doesn't need to come into this.

Would you be happy if a Super Dash player plopped down 3 of the largest debris fields and forced you to deal with the consequences while completely ignoring them himself?

Obstacle choice is /far more/ game-able and has far more of an impact on the game than damage deck choice.

I don't really care what Alex Davy thinks. He joined the game during wave 4, right? Pre-Alex Davy X-Wing was the pre-Super Phantom pre-Turretwing X-Wing where your ships only got to attack once, do one action, and only got to move once. Where dials actually mattered. The golden age. So if he thinks the damage deck was such a pressing issue while also thinking Super Dash doesn't ruin the game he's just wrong.

I have an idea. What if players could choose their own damage decks and we all lived with it because the old damage deck was a non-issue to begin with?

I'm sorry, but the game designers clearly disagree that the old damage deck wasn't an issue, otherwise they wouldn't have updated and revised the damage deck when given the chance to do so.

That a commercial decision has taken priority over that issue does not mean there wasn't an issue to begin with.

To be fair the designers are also wrong about Super Dash.

All the old deck did was on occasion screw HWK and Y-Wing players and people who put 60 points into a fat turret. Fat turret players getting screwed is always a good thing, and the occasional game where your Gold Squadron loses its TLT sucks but it never warranted the new deck.

Academy Pilots ignoring 1/7th of crit effects isn't actually a problem.

If the old deck was even an issue it was pretty much the least pressing one this game has ever faced. Certainly not enough to alienate a bunch of people unwilling to obtain the new core, and still less of an issue than Super Dash or Super Corran. They made the right decision allowing damage deck choice.

So why should any ship get a significantly different outcome to the same Critical Hit. It's supposed to be a critical hit, after all. If they wanted basic ships to be immune to 1/7 crits, you'd be able to roll an attack die for every crit and if you roll a crit as well, you flip it face down.

Would you be happy if your opponent was allowed to make you include an attack die that didn't have a crit marked on it a couple of times a game?

We all use the same dice, marked the same way for a reason. Allowing player choice over such a core game mechanic as the damage deck is, to my mind at least, a poor decision at a game design level. You don't normally get to chose which version of the decloak or barrel roll rules you want to use, why is the damage deck any different?

Especially when they had so many other options to get the new damage deck out there, such as including damage decks in Tournament packs so that players can access the new damage deck without buying the new core set.

I've played other systems that gave away printed copies of their new edition rule book (albeit a readers digest version) to players that showed their old rulebook to their games store. And they did that twice!

For a company that can and does print a stack of new art card versions for each new tournament pack, cost to the player doesn't need to come into this.

Would you be happy if a Super Dash player plopped down 3 of the largest debris fields and forced you to deal with the consequences while completely ignoring them himself?

Obstacle choice is /far more/ game-able and has far more of an impact on the game than damage deck choice.

I don't really care what Alex Davy thinks. He joined the game during wave 4, right? Pre-Alex Davy X-Wing was the pre-Super Phantom pre-Turretwing X-Wing where your ships only got to attack once, do one action, and only got to move once. Where dials actually mattered. The golden age. So if he thinks the damage deck was such a pressing issue while also thinking Super Dash doesn't ruin the game he's just wrong.

No it wasn't...ptl has been around since wave 2 and vader since 1...you have always been able to take multiple actions. The pwt has existed since wave 2 as well...oh and gunner top so you could shoot twice in your "golden age"

Boost was also a thing back then and barrel roll has been around since the games inception.

The falcon has always been able to shoot in any direction...so could a ywing that took a turret upgrade. your hatred of the pwt is legendary yes...but if you are going to talk crap on the designer don't bring up things you dislike that he didn't create and act like they didn't exist before his arrival. none of those things you mentioned were created post wave 3...he may have utilized those things you dislike more...but don't act like they weren't already heavily used during the "golden age" it xwing...

Your reasoning for your attack is weak...

Would you be happy if a Super Dash player plopped down 3 of the largest debris fields and forced you to deal with the consequences while completely ignoring them himself?

Yes. Them's the rules. Chewie ignores crits, Dash ignores obstacles, Coran gets a double tap, Soontir gets a focus off stress, Keyan can spend a stress as a focus etc. These are all deviations from the core rules and that's what makes them unique abilities. You pay for them in points. I don't think any of these things are broken (or the many other powerful abilities) and are balanced pretty well. That's pretty much where I see the differences here; you pay no points cost to pick a favourable damage deck but you do for pilot skill, abilities and upgrades. It's the lack of, well, anything really to do with list building that makes me dislike the deck choice. It's a case of build your list and pick the most favourable deck (i.e. the one that will hurt you least). Doesn't actually influence list building at all...

Would you be happy if a Super Dash player plopped down 3 of the largest debris fields and forced you to deal with the consequences while completely ignoring them himself?

Obstacle choice is /far more/ game-able and has far more of an impact on the game than damage deck choice.

I don't really care what Alex Davy thinks. He joined the game during wave 4, right? Pre-Alex Davy X-Wing was the pre-Super Phantom pre-Turretwing X-Wing where your ships only got to attack once, do one action, and only got to move once. Where dials actually mattered. The golden age. So if he thinks the damage deck was such a pressing issue while also thinking Super Dash doesn't ruin the game he's just wrong.

I really don't get your hate for Super Dash, he always was the point fortress i minded the least, since he can't stack defense as stupidly as Falcons and Decimators, plus in his cool form (with HLC) he can actually be outmanouvered, unlike PWTs. His hypermobility can easily be blocked with his large base and him being stuck on greens all the time. He is way better design than the Falcon.

I fail to see the problem with Dash as well, maybe its because I have never lost to it.

Would you be happy if a Super Dash player plopped down 3 of the largest debris fields and forced you to deal with the consequences while completely ignoring them himself?

Obstacle choice is /far more/ game-able and has far more of an impact on the game than damage deck choice.

I don't really care what Alex Davy thinks. He joined the game during wave 4, right? Pre-Alex Davy X-Wing was the pre-Super Phantom pre-Turretwing X-Wing where your ships only got to attack once, do one action, and only got to move once. Where dials actually mattered. The golden age. So if he thinks the damage deck was such a pressing issue while also thinking Super Dash doesn't ruin the game he's just wrong.

Not really because in obstacle placement both players get to place obstacles not jut their own. If you did brought the key obstacles and don't have the initiative your opponent places two out of the three of the obstacles you brought. Damage decks is strictly for your ships only. Your opponent does not draw from your deck. So your opponent cannot counter a munitions failure draw on an academy pilot, unless they are playing marrek.

Exactly that. If your damage deck has crits that don't affect your ships; it's not really list building, strategy or good play just side stepping a crit, which defeats the object of crits. I never want crits but it's part of the game so should be balanced enough to affect all ships/builds equally. Being able to choose a damage deck that allows your build/certain parts of your build to avoid a crit effect (situational I know) is far more unbalancing than paying the premium points cost for a special ability (such as Chewie). Simply choosing the deck that's least nasty isn't really anything other than a simple choice...

I never want crits but it's part of the game so should be balanced enough to affect all ships/builds equally.

Which neither deck provides.

I never want crits but it's part of the game so should be balanced enough to affect all ships/builds equally.

Which neither deck provides.

What crits are you talking about there from the new deck? I had the impression that they would all be bad for any ship, but I might be forgetting about some.

Just when you thought this discussion had gone away... It's back. Yay!

I think their new ruling is extremely confusing.

You may now choose your damage decks, because they want players to be creative about what it is they bring....

On the other hand if it's an FFG event you may only use the new damage deck.

Is this how I read it? If so, this is really really confusing. Just make it so that you have to use the new damage deck period. The designers clearly thought there was a flaw and this was their fix. If it isn't utilized 100% it's really lame and causes in my mind a lot of inconsistencies and I don't think it really solves anything.

As it stands now:
Old Damage Deck - Bring this if you don't have secondaries or rely on pilot abilities.
New Deck - Bring this if your build relies on secondaries and pilot abilities. Just be aware it is a bit more punishing.

I never want crits but it's part of the game so should be balanced enough to affect all ships/builds equally.

Which neither deck provides.

What crits are you talking about there from the new deck? I had the impression that they would all be bad for any ship, but I might be forgetting about some.

A shuttle doesn't care about a damaged engine, nor does a Ghost or Decimator care about the one that lowers agility.

On the other hand if it's an FFG event you may only use the new damage deck.

Since when? Past Worlds used the new deck, to "showcase" it, but that's all.

I never want crits but it's part of the game so should be balanced enough to affect all ships/builds equally.

Which neither deck provides.

What crits are you talking about there from the new deck? I had the impression that they would all be bad for any ship, but I might be forgetting about some.

A shuttle doesn't care about a damaged engine, nor does a Ghost or Decimator care about the one that lowers agility.

Well, it is an improvement, going from entire ship classes to specific ships, but your point stands. I would prefer the new deck across the board, but I am fine with the old one still being usable, there are enough advantages to justify it. Doesn't add anything to squadbuilding, though, since it really is not descision which one to use when, the it is always obvious.

Doesn't add anything to squadbuilding, though, since it really is not descision which one to use when, the it is always obvious.

The old deck does make some squads better compared to the new ones, so it adds to squad building by increasing the pool of viable options

Why did it take so long for someone to bring these up? This is exactly what I was looking for when the announcement first came out and I said:

Until FFG or someone else comes out and tells me exactly which squads are favored by the new damage deck, I won't believe it because I thought the whole point was to balance it. Any ideas on this?

To me, this point about Shuttles and Decimators ignoring some new crits changes everything concerning FFG's change to the ruling. It's not about money. It's not about caving into pressure. It's clear that they set out to make a fair damage deck, but couldn't avoid some of the pitfalls of the first one, so both are legal. I have no problems with this now.

On the other hand if it's an FFG event you may only use the new damage deck.

Since when? Past Worlds used the new deck, to "showcase" it, but that's all.

Re read it a few times now and I see that now. I take that back.

Still dun like! But oh well.

Next critical deck enhancement will be "Build your own Damage Deck. No more than 4 of a card! Have at it!"

I just hit a funny combo tuesday.. I had taken a crit (the one that reduces your main weapon by 1) and was flying a Auto Corrected Advanced TIE ... I started laughing because it didn't matter... I can always get 2 shots off... yes I take a hit on range one shots, but who cares, I generally got 2 hits anyway.. I was generally amused...

I had chosen to use the old deck in the game because I didn't want the heavy hitting damage of the new deck...

Today I flew a bunch of Black Squadrons with Crack Shot. I chose to use the new deck in order to reduce my risk of losing Crack Shots early.

I should have sat down for more than a minute to analyze which deck was better for my squad and if the new deck really was the best option, but I think it adds more to the game, looking at all the damage deck cards and seeing which deck is better for your squad. Just like one does with obstacles.

One thing of note is that Interceptors can pretty much ignore the Loose Stabilizer crit from the new deck. They can just green hard 2 over and over, lol.

A shuttle doesn't care about a damaged engine, nor does a Ghost or Decimator care about the one that lowers agility.

Except those two crits are identical in both decks.

A shuttle doesn't care about a damaged engine, nor does a Ghost or Decimator care about the one that lowers agility.

Except those two crits are identical in both decks.

Guess they haven't fixed everything have they? The much touted "a crit must be devastating" somehow doesn't always apply to some of the more popular ships.

And there are other crits ignored by other ships.

I think a large base ship ignoring crit effects is worse than a small based ship doing so because a small based ship is most likely dead, or dead the next turn, anyway.

I also think the imbalance is blown way out of proportion with no decks having been designed to take advantage of ignoring crits. You don't design lists on the basis of receiving crits.