Me Too

Is it still racism if the foreigner stereotypes himself?

Absolutely, it's called internalized racism. It goes hand-in-hand with hegemony, which is basically what keeps subaltern groups from murdering us honkies in the streets. Most of the time.

Is it still racism if the foreigner stereotypes himself?

Absolutely, it's called internalized racism. It goes hand-in-hand with hegemony, which is basically what keeps subaltern groups from murdering us honkies in the streets. Most of the time.

please be sarcasm please be sarcasm

Insofar as sarcasm implies a desire to defame or wound the subject, my intention absolutely was not to be sarcastic. It could, however, be argued that there was a subtly ironic overtone to my comment, but I think not in the sense that you are suggesting.

Contempt is absolutely the appropriate response to that ideology, however.

Contempt is absolutely the appropriate response to that ideology, however.

Contempt is certainly what characterizes most of your responses on these forums, or at least those that I've been unfortunate enough to have read.

I was specifically referring to the "internalised racism" bullcrit, not any aspect of #53.

It's unfortunate that many things are deserving of contempt, but I didn't make them that way and I would love to see things get better so that I can continue to call things as they are when those things become, in my estimation, deserving of compliment.

e: to add a post-thought, you might disagree with me regarding the quality of the ideology, or that of anything else I post against, but you can't stop me from respecting your right to do that.

I was specifically referring to the "internalised racism" bullcrit, not any aspect of #53.

It's unfortunate that many things are deserving of contempt, but I didn't make them that way and I would love to see things get better so that I can continue to call things as they are when those things become, in my estimation, deserving of compliment.

This is one of the times that the concept of irony is a bit muddier for me: is it ironic that a person that would make a statement like the above will never be able to recognize the hubris it entails?

I never doubted that your contempt was directed toward my comment about internalized racism. Clearly in your "ideology," that's not a thing, or at least not an important issue. So tell me, what do you think keeps those who are unhappy with their lot from violently overthrowing a system they perceive as contributing to their marginalization?

Hopefully, since this thread quickly degenerated into a discussion of boobies, no one will be bummed about its having been hijacked...

Recognising the hubris and being able to do anything about it are vastly separate efforts.

I'm not confident that I have a researched and concluded response to that specific question. My simplified view on "internalised racism" is that it's a buzzword thrown at anyone who disagrees with a given groupthink as a way of ostracising opinions, and has nothing to do with racism itself, the term is using a nasty and wholly unlikeable concept as a coat-tail in an attempt to legitimise itself.

I actually do rather object to this thread being hijacked for the cause of unnecessary politicisation, but considering that it's my fault, I apologise.

Recognising the hubris and being able to do anything about it are vastly separate efforts.

I'm not confident that I have a researched and concluded response to that specific question. My simplified view on "internalised racism" is that it's a buzzword thrown at anyone who disagrees with a given groupthink as a way of ostracising opinions, and has nothing to do with racism itself, the term is using a nasty and wholly unlikeable concept as a coat-tail in an attempt to legitimise itself.

I actually do rather object to this thread being hijacked for the cause of unnecessary politicisation, but considering that it's my fault, I apologise.

The above is an unexpectedly tactful withdrawal, but since you've gone ahead and made your last statement on the issue, I'll make one as well in the hopes that someone might read this exchange and choose to educate themselves further on what I feel are some extremely important issues.

What I've emphasized above with bold typeface is exactly the problem: so few of us bother to research our conclusions on issues such as this, and respond to anything at odds with our "simplified view" as contemptible. The justification, emphasized in italic, is a familiar one that is effective among those that have not done their homework, so to speak. Interestingly, the accusation of "buzzword" and "groupthink" work just as well in reverse here, as evidenced by your attempt to "ostracize opinions" such as mine. You've openly admitted that you haven't studied the problem, and seem to be claiming that because the term in question borrows from what is widely accepted as "a nasty and wholly unlikeable concept" that it is beneath your consideration and necessarily flawed. That seems rather like arguing that since the Nazis were bad, we don't need to consider that self-proclaimed neo-Nazis might also be bad simply because they weren't very original in choosing what to call themselves.

But this is all rather academic, so let me just say this: I might even concede that the terms "internalized racism" or "internalized misogyny" are problematic, but my girlfriend is a woman of color, and my sister is a pilot (a decidedly male-dominated industry). I'm here to tell you that it is absolutely heartbreaking for me to watch these incredible women doubt themselves when I know they're more talented and hard-working than I will ever be. I challenge all that read this to consider, just for a moment, that there might be something at work here, whatever you wish to call it, that amounts to an injustice.

It's an apology, not a withdrawal~

Your specific question felt very leading, as well as vaguely irrelevant to 99% of the uses of the term that I run into, so there's that. If I ever do research into it from that angle I'm sure I'll have a better response to that specific question, but I think we're talking about fairly disparate uses of the term here.

The use of simplified there is just that I could probably fill pages with more of my opinions on the subject, it's not to imply that that statement is one I haven't given thought to.

I'd like to say that my intent is not to ostracise your opinion. Post and counterpost and countercounterpost are simply dialogue, please don't read malice into it, I don't intend any.

My point on borrowing is that most of the usage of "internalised racism" that I (personally) see is by people attempting to call someone of [race] out for not agreeing with them, where saying "you're [race], therefore you should think [thing]" is pretty much entirely manipulative stereotyping, no? I'm not entirely sure where you're getting "beneath [my] consideration" from unless I am very very bad at typing somehow, which makes the following Godwin kind of disingenuous.

If your experience with usage cases the for the term is different, alright.

(did you really just use "some of my best friends are [X]"?)

(in before politics lock)

You drift the topic away from boobs and think people won't mind?

Like I said in another thread, this is what happens when previews don't~

Like I said in another thread, this is what happens when previews don't~

it's true!! so FFG, help us, #escile ste news!! per favore, please!

Like I said in another thread, this is what happens when previews don't~

When previews don't...

Don't what?

COME ON TIP, DON'T LEAVE US HANGING LIKE THAT!

Biggest cliffhanger since Halo 2, dammit.

Like I said in another thread, this is what happens when previews don't~

When previews don't...

Don't what?

COME ON TIP, DON'T LEAVE US HANGING LIKE THAT!

Biggest cliffhanger since Halo 2, dammit.

they really don't..!

they should have..!

then we might be seeing...!

and that is my final standpoint on..!

..really.

Like I said in another thread, this is what happens when previews don't~

When previews don't...

Don't what?

COME ON TIP, DON'T LEAVE US HANGING LIKE THAT!

Biggest cliffhanger since Halo 2, dammit.

The second happen would have been redundant.

One imagines the upcoming Episode 7 is keeping Disney's licencing department very, very busy.

And because it's a new company to interact with, FFG's stuff is not likely to simply be rubberstamped as "Yeah, they do good stuff".

Our minis are clogged with bureaucracy! A harsh fate.

we need a strong person like senator palpatine at the top who get's rid of bureaucracy - and a strong military to enforce harsh laws..!

[typing that down.. it SOUNDS really ..problematic^^]

[typing that down.. it SOUNDS really ..problematic^^]

Don't worry, I'm sure there's someone around to find your lack of faith disturbing.

One imagines the upcoming Episode 7 is keeping Disney's licencing department very, very busy.

And because it's a new company to interact with, FFG's stuff is not likely to simply be rubberstamped as "Yeah, they do good stuff".

Our minis are clogged with bureaucracy! A harsh fate.

"We seem to be made to suffer. It's our lot in life." (C-3PO)

Come to the black forest, it has a nice X-Wing community

hay we have a big think going on here in Karlsruhe. lets get a meet up and play going